Hi all,

I was chuffed to get a 3rd in Graduate til I found out that Graduate and Mid-Limit, amongst other classes, are not qualifying classes. 

I wondered why there are only a handful of classes that do qualify, and also, as they are usually full, if there is a reason to enter these non-qualifying classes that I don't know about.

:-) TIA

Well qualifying for Crufts is not usually a reason why people enter a class, I think the classes chosen for qualifying are so it is even across the breeds many breeds do not have Graduate and Mid Limit classes.

In my breed exhibitors rarely wait to win their way out of classes.  Once qualified then the pressure is off to travel to qualify.  So if they think there's a chance of qualifying, then they'll enter a qualifying class, but the numbers are usually high. 
If they think that the competition will be to strong for their dog, then they'll enter the non-qualifying classes, because the entries in those classes, both numbers and quality are usually lower, and so they'll hope for a place, even if it isn't a qualifier.

Also there is the hope of Junior Warrant points when a Junior or puppy is likely to be entered in more than one class.

Qualifying for Crufts is a minor issue for most exhibitors (it's only another show for most of us), the hope of winning a class is the reason to enter.

Suppose I don't understand why it is so important to qualify for Crufts, there are far nicer shows to enter that you don't need to qualify for, Crufts must be the most uncomfortable show for both dogs and handlers I can't understand the rush to get there.

Crufts must be the most uncomfortable show for both dogs and handlers

LOL I'd say the exact opposite -far worse would be for instance Blackpool or SKC or the National, not to mention Boston and Manchester. For comfort for both dogs and handlers you can't beat Crufts or LKA.

thank you so far! food for thought indeed.

I am a relative newcomer in one of the most popular of breeds, and advice given to me from several people in the breed is to start champ shows early in the year (the year beginning after Crufts) in order to qualify as once you have, you can relax and choose shows at leisure AND if you do get the chance to do Crufts, ALWAYS go, as even if your dog is unplaced, it will be seen by a bigger audience.

I quite enjoyed it when I did go, but then I wasn't driving! :-) my dog hated it as he was bitten by an angry dachshund on the way in - he's terrified of them now!

Is making up a champion the ultimate goal?

I think Crufts/qualifying has different priority for different people. For me it is nice to say you have qualified but I wouldnt always enter & very much depends on the judge. I have qualified in previous years & not entered as I know the judge doesnt like my dog/s, so whats the point in entering/wasting money for the sake of saying you were entered at Crufts!!!???

> LOL I'd say the exact opposite -far worse would be for instance Blackpool or SKC or the National, not to mention Boston and Manchester. For comfort for both dogs and handlers you can't beat Crufts or LKA.

????

I know nothing of Boston, Blackpool or SKC, but Birmingham is one of the better shows with benching close to rings.  Stafford have reasonabley priced refreshments too.

> Qualifying for Crufts is a minor issue for most exhibitors (it's only another show for most of us), the hope of winning a class is the reason to enter.

I think that can very much depend on the amount of entries a breed attracts. For me getting placed is a good achievement when there can be 15-20 in a class & to qualify is certainly very good.

Birmingham is one of the better shows with benching close to rings.  Stafford have reasonabley priced refreshments too.

I don't like it -don't like the venue at all (hence Boston and Manchester as well). Very cramped, hate having to go upstairs for food and trade stands, and depending on exactly where you are benched, it can be a bit like a bigger version of Newark -can get very cold indeed.

hence Boston and Manchester as well

Boston???? What is the problem with Boston?

But Boston isn't at Stafford?

Shows it's horses for courses, as I love the Balcony at Stafford to watch the show from above while having a drink.

Also not trade stands in the way of negotiating getting from A to B, though other than Crufts they are rarely inconsidertely placed other than the shows like Windsor and Richmond (my pet hates) that still insist on a ring of benching tents a ring of trade stands and Rings in the middle.

Boston is very cramped like all shows at Stafford. That's not taking the snow into account. :)

It all just goes to prove we all have very different ideas of what we like and don't like, and my point was really let's not try to put a newbie off showing at Crufts when far from everyone sees it as a difficult show, I for one find it the best show of the year. I don't personally know anyone who sees it as just another show, and once inside the halls I find it very comfortable with so much more space between the benches etc. :) I show both my breeds at Crufts so different rings, different halls, but it's as good for both.

Oh yes, I'm confusing myself LOL -no Boston of course is East of England. So minus the upstairs but I still find it very cramped, one of these shows your dogs get trodden on.

I can understand that exhibiting at Crufts is a huge ambition to new exhibitors - I felt the same way myself, and it's still quite fun, but I agree that there's no show more stressful and exhausting than Crufts and, if you're showing a dog puppy, a hellishly long boring day having to wait 6+ hours before you're allowed to leave. I know several people who enjoy qualifying for it but have no intention of going because it's just not much fun. LKA, at the same venue, is a much more enjoyable show.

> LKA, at the same venue, is a much more enjoyable show.

Oh love the Christmas atmosphere, somewhat spoiled by the NEC when they banned party tables, so Tupperware boxes passed round instead..

Agree there JG, have not exhibited there for years but love LKA - main problem I have with the NEC is that large roundabout in all the years I have driven away from there I think I have only taken the correct exit once.

LOL Brainless the very term LKA brings to mind Bingham's bomb - yes the tables were nice and really added to the atmosphere.

For many years we didn't bother about going to Crufts but these days things have changed.  There are now many exhibitors from abroad and these days it's the one show that many will show almost whoever the judge is because there are more judges on the outside of the ring and so if they leave a nice dog unplaced, then it's the judge who looks silly!

Plus it's now used as an excuse for everyone to meet up and have mini parties, so it's become a social event for friends from home and abroad. :)

I started showing dog so long ago that I remember the day when no qualification was needed for Crufts.
It has entirely changed the face of dog showing and I've yet to get my head around this all consuming
"Got to qualify" thing.
I watched a grown woman weep because she was placed in a small class of poor quality..just because she had "qualified" ...... Surely there's more to the art of dog breeding than that?!

Couldn't agree with you more - reminds me of when people used to chase around mid week to be the only one in a class and get a JW point!  What's the point??

Crufts, to me, is great because it is the ONLY time all exhibitors in the breed comes together. Even the breed championship shows have declining entries -the one in my breed just over a week ago with foreign breed specialists got just 18!, but at Crufts we get the best entry of the year plus usually one or two foreign dogs coming over as well. I also like the fact that people who keep Champions at home bring them out for Crufts, so there is real stiff competition. It's a real party atmosphere. We also get past breeders/exhibitors coming to visit so you meet up with old friends you never see normally. But it isn't enough to just qualify and take part, no way. (Qualifying isn't very hard anyway, if you keep at it you will do sooner or later in any breed as there are always some shows with poor entries in certain classes.) I'd rather not go if I didn't think I had a chance of one of the major placings i.e. at least an RCC -but we only have small entries in my main breed, normally 33 or so at Crufts. (My expectations are not as high in my other breed with much, much bigger entries.) My current best bitch will hopefully have pups aged around 4-5 weeks for Crufts next year so we almost decided not to enter as the others may win their classes but not do more, but we're now working on another bitch who I think may be good enough if she gets more used to showing -so far so good. And my 13 (then 14) year old son has been promised to get to handle for the first time next at Crufts next year, my 18 year old daughter is looking forward to handling both my breeds again, and my husband always enjoys handling as well, so it's a family affair properly. Then we do a day in DD and that's always great. 3 days of fun! :)

>I'd rather not go if I didn't think I had a chance of one of the major placings i.e. at least an RCC -but we only have small entries in my main breed, normally 33 or so at Crufts.

We have an entry of about 200 at Crufts so even getting placed is an achievement! I'm not sure a VHC card is worth the alternate heat and chill, the noise and the thumping headache.

I've loved attending Crufts for most of my life, I just feel the qualification...which was ONLY brought in because they were outgrowing their premises.....not as a 'gold standard',has changed the way dog showing works and not  for the better.

If there wasn't a qualifier to limit the numbers then Crufts would have to be a 6- or 7-day show, even at the NEC, because of the numbers.

The cache of the qualifier would indeed have made that so...without..I'm not so sure. It was just a big show now its the Holy Grail.

I think there would be the same number or less entries without the qualifier as it wouldn't mean the same to people. For those abroad they make a big thing out of it as well (mind you, for them it is harder to qualify as it is only one or two shows per country which qualify) and they get a certificate saying their dog has qualified for Crufts.

Our best entry is always the breed club show, followed by the Group champ show, and then Crufts, unless one or other has an uninspiring judge choice, but the breed club will always get the best entry regardless as that is the one show some people who rarely show will make the effort to go to, and those people retired from the game still come..

These answers have surprised me!  I'm really surprised that the general consensus is that Crufts is not the ultimate aim for all dog show-ers. 

I suppose i sort of agree that it is just another dog show - same judges as for other shows, BUT it is the only show that is televised, and my breed has been BIS twice now (correct me if I'm wrong) and made the group last year, so was 'on the telly'!

I have exhibited there already and found it very exciting!  I loved the general public admiring my dog, and felt that it was a 'more important' show to be attending, probably in that you had to 'qualify' to be there at all AND the general public mingled amongst us, making it more of an occasion. 

The added bonus, despite no placing, is that my dog is now on the internet with a professional photo on the table and his name beside it, taken by a Russian lady and freely distributed via Facebook along with the other exhibits - so great publicity.  Overseas dog show-ers seem to hold Crufts in high regard and the photos that the lady took were much pored over and discussed.

BTW I think Crufts must have our highest entry of the year - 416/490.  it is usually half this for a champ show - 182/270 for Blackpool for instance - not sure re. breed shows - Lexy will know! :-)

> BTW I think Crufts must have our highest entry of the year - 416/490.  it is usually half this for a champ show - 182/270 for Blackpool for instance - not sure re. breed shows - Lexy will know! :-)

lol.....Yes our breed is very popular indeed, with at least 3 general champs being the top entry overall. Breed shows are a bit more difficult for me to keep track of, as numbers arent published & there being 11 of them. Obviously they depend on the area but can be 200-300 or more, I know that the scottish one I judged last year had 174 entries! As you already say, Crufts is very nearly 500 entries & was over that in 2011!!!

Ah makes a difference if you only have one National breed club and a Scottish one. 

I suppose there is only one Crufts and you have 11 breed club champ shows, so they are not as special.

> I suppose there is only one Crufts and you have 11 breed club champ shows, so they are not as special.

Not quite sure what you mean, I havent said our breed clubs arent special(or crufts for that matter)!!! We are lucky to have a good choice but thats because our entries are high & new clubs were formed. Our eldest club is 114 years old & the newest is 20 years old this year!!

What I meant is that with only one breed club most people consider it more special than Crufts which is one of many all breed championship shows, but bigger, noisier and more crowded.

If you have 11 breed club shows they are not as unique and intimate an experience.

I suppose it's like comparing a 1980's disco with a ticket only Garden Party.

What I meant is that with only one breed club most people consider it more special than Crufts which is one of many all breed championship shows, but bigger, noisier and more crowded.

We have just 2 breed clubs. One national, one northern. We still get bigger entries at Crufts.

Crufts doesn't come close to our two breed club championship shows especially since the effects of entries on docked dogs which prevents many of our breeds top dogs entering... Home grown and those from overseas.  Crufts is a shadow of its former self for my breed .. Sad but true