As the title says!
I have found myself as the owner of a litter of baby (pet) rabbits and can not seem to tell the gender of any of them. They are approx 4 & half weeks old, is this too early to be able to tell what they are? They are lop eared and I'm guessing the father is the whopping French Lop I also have found myself with as the babies, one in particular, are very big, one is almost as big as the mum allready.

The babies eyes all opened on the 19th May - the only way I have of aging them. So I am assuming that they were approx 10 days old on that date and will be 8 weeks old at the end of the month & ready for their new homes. I got them on the 13th May, they looked pinkish as their fur was thins and very small about, the size of my thumb (I have small hands, so perhaps think the size of half a cheap, thin sausage!).

This next bit is the long story in how it came about, more of a way to get this off my chest than actually relevant to baby rabbit genders!

In May a neighbour was evicted, it was a very traumatic event with several police armed response units attending and included the arrest of the single mother. We have been neighbours with this woman and her 5 children for 13 years and have always got on well with her. It was horrible to see the trauma in the family and they had 1 hour to find temp homes for all animals they had or the RSPCA would seize any left at the address.

Hubby & I offered them the use of our garden to keep some of their rabbits in untill they got thierselfs sorted.
After 6 adult rabbits had been moved to our garden, we were then told that one of them had a nest of babies and to be very carefull as the mother was extremely protective of them. Apparently this litter was an accident as a male rabbit must have mated the mother through the wire on the hutch. Well, it turns out that one of her indoor rabbits also had a litter of babies......BYB???

I am not that confidant with rabbits (the last rabbit we had was a rescue, who loved being petted but hated being picked up), but it soon became obvious that mummy rabbit was not being protective, she was very hungry. Any time I went near her hutch she would frantically scratch at the bars - for food. It was over a week before I actually touched her and was shocked at how thin she was. When the  babies emerged from their nest I was worried that the smallest was so thin that it would die.

However, with constant feeding of the mum, and the babies since they started eating, the little runty one is second largest in the litter, all babies feel a good weight, mum is still thin but not like she was.
2 adult rabbits were re-homed, through the woman, 2 days after we had them here. We've had no contact from her since, other than a message, last week, via her daughter that she can't have them back. (The family now live 25 miles away).

The other 3 adults are all thin & they're all males, all of whom have scars and bits missing form thier ears from fighting with each other, but I have not struggled keeping them seperate as they all have their own hutches. Hubby has spent the last few weeks making new hutches for all the rabbits so they have larger hutches and the male that is terrified of being touched has a large run under his hutch so I don't need to bother him beyond his own pace.

The woman does not want the rabbits back - it's up to me to re-home them!! (Oh and I have been providing all food, bedding and care at my own expense!).

We've become quite attached to the rabbits, we're keeping all 4 adults and 1 baby, the other 4 babies have homes lined up for the end of this month.

There, that's why I have a litter of rabbits and that's why I'm not sure how old they are!

ETA, I forgot about the chinchilla, we were looking after him for the woman too. He had been kept in a shed, where his seperately caged mate had been killed & eaten by wild rats - next to his cage. We've re-homed him as the woman didn't want him back either. I visited him yesterday, he's a completely different animal, happy, outgoing and inquisitive :) - the opposite of the depressed little thing he was.

Blimey , you have been busy :) hats off to you.

Poor chinchilla!  In fact poor pets but at least they have you now.  How sad that things come to this.

I had guinea pigs as a teenager.  The method is to tip them on their back and press the area and see if anything pops up.  You do have to press pretty firmly

Brainless is more experienced than me but my daughter used to breed dwarf lops.  If you put the baby on its back and press the flesh tummy side of the opening, the internal bit will pop out.  The internal opening on the male is a circle and on the female is a definite slit. :)

It's easy when you know how!  Turn your rabbit onto it's back holding it by the scruf with one hand, using the other hand press the front most opening gently between forefinger and thumb which will open the vent. now you will either see a little opening which is V shaped (Female ) or a little circular roll of skin in which a penis may appear (Male ) if the rabbit is old enough. I'm not sure if the testicles show much at this age I can't remember but they don't hang like cats and dogs, they are long and close to the body and live either side of the waste disposal units! but very small at this age.

Put your glasses on and have fun !!

Thanks for that :)

A couple of neighbours came round to help me do this today, but all 5 babies look like they have the same bits, to start with, we were convinced they were all boys, then second time around we were convinced they were all girls

Mum is not overly keen on being held, but by distracting her with a pile of cut grass to much on, she let us lift her tail and inspect her 'end' - that's when we re-checked the babies and thought their bits all looked like mums.

> The internal opening on the male is a circle and on the female is a definite slit

Ah-ha!!! That is where we are going wrong - it's the INTERNAL opening - no wonder they all look the same by looking at the external opening!!!!

I'll have another look later. I struggle to keep them flipped over, so have found - if on my own, if I hold them against me, and fold myself over, while curling their rear ends upward I can get a good look that way. They stay a lot stiller for me like that, which is good as the big one we are keeping is very fluffy and sometimes a dropping will get tangled in his bum hair, so I clip it away with scissors. He's getting better at cleaning himself though, yesterday when I found a tangled dropping, by the time I came indoors to get my scissors, he'd cleaned it off himself :)

Thanks Wee man, that makes much more sense than what we have been looking for! We've only been looking at the vents, it's a little wonder they all look the same :-D

Do you know if it's possible for rabbits to mate through wire?
I wonder if the woman was telling the truth or not. The big French Lop we have needs to be out for excersise, he would benefit from being able to lollop around the garden. But as I have mum & babies out in the run, I am worried about wheather he can mate with her through the wire sides of the run. We do not want any more babies here!
Mum will be speyed, but not untill babies have gone and she's a better weight, the poor girl's been through a lot and could do with a some recouperation when babies have gone.

I should think it was pretty much impossible for rabbits to mate through a wire barrier of any description. Someone has just been very careless!

> I should think it was pretty much impossible for rabbits to mate through a wire barrier of any description

Brill, thanks for that :)

> Someone has just been very careless

Or, making up excuses so they don't look like they have been intentionally knocking out litters of rabbits :(

I would have thought it possible but unlikely.  How big is she?  Could you pop her and babies into the bath to keep them safe while he is out?  She would have to be up for it and I would imagine it would take a lucky shot!

> How big is she?

Ohh, I'm not sure how to describe her size, she's small, but not a dwarf. Hubby has made a nice large hutch for mum & babies, with legs, so the wire part of the door is about 8 inches off the floor, but it is set back behind the inch think door frame, I've no worry of him reaching her if she's in that

I just feel a bit cruel not having her out in the run all day, she's not happy at being seperated form the babies and with all 5 of them and her, allthough a 5ft long hutch, they don't have the room to run around that they do if they are out in the run.

ETA - I could get hubbby to fix a solid wooden barrier around the bottom of the run, hmm, I'll go see if I can add that to the list of things he needs to make/fix/alter for the rabbits :-D

Roxylola; It would take more than a "lucky shot"   It is absolutely impossible!!!!!!!!!

How come - sheep and dogs can mate through wire fencing, so why is it impossible for rabbits?

Trying to prove I'm wrong, yet again!! you must be an expert an everything, or so it seems !

Where there is a willie there is a way or so I was always told.  I cannot imagine any way that it would be likely but if I had 2 opposite gender rabbits I would try and make sure there was never just 1 fence between them to be extra sure if at all possible

It would be a bit of an unfair tease but the position the 2 animals have to get into with the male holding the female and the shape of the male rabbits penis and the falling off process, no matter how willing it just can't be done.

Mastifflover, have you considered having the male castrated, it must be easier and cheaper too.

> Mastifflover, have you considered having the male castrated, it must be easier and cheaper too.

Yes, I've thought about it, but I have 3 males here.
It will be only the one male (the huge French lop) that will be given daily access to the entire garden, the other 2 males won't be out loose atall.
However, as it's just one female (she is about a quarter of the size of the big male - I'd have thought he'd be more expensive due to the extra aneshtetic?), I thought it would make more sense just to get her done, so if she, or any of the 3 males escape and get access to each other there is definately not going to be any accidental pregnancies.

I will actually go and weigh the rabbits now. It will help me keep an eye on their weight gain and may be useful in getting a quote from the vet :)

If you got them all neutered and took your time over introductions carefully you could have them all living as a group. Rabbits can be difficult to introduce but they really love having friends and it makes their lives so much better. Then they could all live in a small shed with a run attached, which would be lovely for them and much easier for you than cleaning multiple hutches.
You might find some interesting info here http://www.rabbitwelfare.co.uk/ahutchisnotenough.htm
Well done for taking them on.

> If you got them all neutered and took your time over introductions carefully you could have them all living as a grou

Ooooh :-D Even though the males have beaten each other up before?

I would love it for them to live as a group. I can't afford to get them all neutered at once, but if I knew there was a good chance of them getting on together, it would be worth getting them done one at a time as & when I can afford it.

The one rabbit, that is too frightened to be picked up, has made some great progress. He'll come up to the bars when I call out "whats this" (with dandelion leaf in hand for some positive association), he's now progressed to letting me stroke his ear 3 times - only through the wire though, if I open the door he'll run to the back. To start with as soon as I went near his hutch, he bolted into the bed area and thumped his feet, he doesn't do that now :) He's adorable, it would be great, when he's come out of his shell and learns to trust me, to be able to play with the other rabbits too :)

Watching how the baby rabbits groom each other, I do feel sad that the adults are seperate.

Thanks for the link, I'll have a look at that now :)

Hi Mastifflover

I can't offer any advice on rabbit husbandry, I'm afraid!  But I do love rabbits and just wanted to say how brilliant I think you are for taking on all these poor bunnies.  They are very lucky to have you to rescue and care for them so well.  Good luck with all of them.  What does Buster think about it all?!

> Where there is a willie there is a way or so I was always told. 

I have bred & exhibited rabbits and I'm pretty sure a thru-wire mating would be impossible/unlikely for them due to their anatomy. Unlike some other male animals, the rabbit's penis is located very far back - actually between the testes, and directly next to the anus.

Most male animals have quite a long gap between anus and penis, with the testicles occupying space in between. Horses, dogs and cows have the penis located much more forward, underneath the abdomen - they could be almost vertical against the fence and still penetrate - but not rabbits, the buck has to really curl his bits almost underneath the doe's hindparts to achieve - er - success. (Then they give a huge grunting sigh, and fall off!).

I had one or two accidental matings, but never through the wire. I often found a buck had escaped during the night and was wandering around the rabbitry, but pregnancy only ensued if a doe had also managed to break out to get to him :)

Ahh thanks Blay :)

>What does Buster think about it all?

He loves them :)
He was most impressed with the giant rabbit to start with, as soon as Buster appeared at the front of the hutch, the giant rabbit would scurry into hiding. Bust thought that was a great game so would play-bow around in front of the hutch to try to temp him back out - it didn't work! The giant rabbit now realises that Buster isn't a threat, but he isn't interested in Buster atal, just sits there while Bust has a little sniff 'hello' through the wire.

The smallest adult enjoys Buster visiting his hutch and will run around to get his attention when he is near. The adult that is fearful of me touching him also enjoys Buster visiting his hutch.

The mother rabbit is terrified of Buster, bolting to her bed and thumping her feet as soon as he is in view of the hutch, the babies aren't frightened of him and have sniffed his nose through the wire.

Buster thinks they are all potential fab play-mates, but I think he is far too clumsy to ever be allowed near them when they are out of a hutch/run, the big lummox is very likely to accidently land a play-bow on one.

> Then they give a huge grunting sigh, and fall off

LOL not unlike a male human :-D

> LOL not unlike a male human :-D

I just knew that comparison would come up! no pun intended... :-D

In my expereince I'd never call it a grunt or sigh, more like the sound you'd make with severe cramp ;)

Well done Mastifflover for taking on the Rabbits. Sounds like you are doing a wonderful job and the rabbit family have landed on their feet.

>Horses, dogs and cows have the penis located much more forward, underneath the abdomen - they could be almost vertical against the fence and still penetrate - but not rabbits, the buck has to really curl his bits almost underneath the doe's hindparts to achieve - er - success.

Excellent; that's the sort of answer I was hoping for when I asked Wee Man why it wouldn't be possible for rabbits to mate through a fence when other species can. Thank you. :-)

> the buck has to really curl his bits almost underneath

There was a similar discussion on Springwatch last night re: birds ....... :) :) You learn something every day - mostly why our pigeons are always mating :) :) Apparently needs about 25 'tries' to fertilise one egg :)

> In my expereince I'd never call it a grunt or sigh, more like the sound you'd make with severe

LOL :-D That's soooooo funny :-D I was laughing so much, hubby wanted to know what I found so amusing, I told him and even he found it funny :-D

We've decided to re-name the adult rabbits, as fans of The Big Bang Theory (sit-com), I'm surprised we didn't think of these names sooner:

the giant rabbit, who is bordering on OCD about the fact his food bowl must be tipped out the second  it has been filled, will now be Sheldon,
the sweet, yet shy, rabbit will now be Leonard
the small, but cheeky rabbit, who would most probably benefit from being 'done' as he'll flick wee at me, just has to be Howard
and the pretty female rabbit will be Penny
the baby we're keeping will be Bernadette if female, perhaps Bernie if male.

You could have Raj for the shy one and that gives you Leonard for the one you keep if need be

> You could have Raj for the shy one and that gives you Leonard for the one you keep if need be

Of course!!! Thanks, that makes more sense :-) I was thinking that 'Koothrapoli' was too much of a mouthfull for a name, I completely forgot about his first name! I'll put that down to me having baby brain at the moment - baby bunny brain that is!
Yep, that leaves Leonard for the baby we're keeping - if male - and I think Amy would be better than Bernadette if baby is a girl.

So, it's Sheldon, Raj, Howard, Penny and Leonard/Amy :)

Another Big Bang theory fan here which IS why our youngest is Peni.

As for the spraying that is competitive male behaviour, which is why all my males ended up in bottom hutches.

When stewarding them on the table you would pin their tails down to the table with your hand, when they would start to vibrate getting ready to spray you, and you often had buck Rabbit pee on your white coat if you were not paying close attention!