Hi
I'm collecting my new Westie pup in two days - yay! And I have decided to try crate training to help with house training.
I already have two adult Westies who are not crate trained.  One dog I got from a rescue as an adult and the other as an 8 week old puppy.

Now, the 8 week old puppy was a pain in the butt to house train.  Not his fault really, we lived in a flat so used those puppy pads for him to toilet on, which seemed to give him the belief it was OK to toilet indoors and so he was still curling out the odd parcel indoors at the age of 2!

He's fine now.  We've moved to a house with a garden and both adult dogs are now fully house trained.  So I really want to get it right with the new puppy and am happy to get up every 2 or 3 hours in the night to take puppy from his crate to toilet outside.

I understand that the puppy should see the crate as somewhere nice and safe to go for a bit of a nap and it shouldn't be used as punishment and the puppy should not be forced into the crate but should go in voluntarily.

But won't the puppy follow the example of my other dogs and want to snuggle up with them in their beds at night?  I can pick my other dogs' beds up during the day so the puppy only has the crate to go to for a nap, assuming one of my other two dogs doesn't get there first.

Has anyone dealt with this kind of thing before please?  How do you deal with the puppy wanting to be with the other dogs at night rather than in his crate by himself?  And how do you deal with the issue of keeping the other dogs out of the crate during the day, so it's available for puppy to go into when he wants?  :)

I would say have the crate for the pup in your bedroom for the first week or so.   Then you will hear when the pup wakes & wants to go out - plus you can dangle your hand in/close to the crate for reassurance.  Don't worry - he/she won't require this for long - but it really helps to settle the pup in its new home & get it used to the crate.

If you don't live in a bungalow then I would have another crate in the living area for during the day.  Make sure the nighttime one in particular is small enough for the pup & cover it so it makes a nice den.

Just build up time during the day very slowly - when the pup is tired, pop it into the crate for 15 mins with something like a filled kong to chew.  

I am sure someone will recommend a book or article on crate training - it's a fantastically useful thing if used in the right way and can protect your pup, your guests and your sanity.

the puppy should not be forced into the crate but should go in voluntarily.

For quite some time to begin with, you will probably need to put the pup in the crate as it is very unlikely that he will go in there voluntarily - they usually prefer to crash out on the floor which is when you can then pop him in the crate. I would also have other times during the day when I put the puppy in so they are not left to run themselves ragged. The other dogs will appreciate this break and your pup will learn to accept your timings rather than setting the pace himself.

> But won't the puppy follow the example of my other dogs and want to snuggle up with them in their beds at night?

I'm smiling at that one!  I have had dogs for many years, and until 8 years ago had never used crates.  However, I was collecting a little Yorkie pup, and felt that she may feel intimidated by my 2 adult Bearded Collies. 

I bought a small crate, as I needed the opening to only allow the pup to enter.  I didn't want the Beardies to walk into the crate.  I arrived home with my new pup, and took her up the garden for her first wee, leaving the Beardies in the kitchen.

After the toileting I walked into the kitchen, and placed pup in the crate.  Not closing the door.  She flew out of the crate, and attached herself to the mane of my largest bitch.  Cassie looked as if she was saying "Oh sh*t" and raced for the back door.  Not stopping for almost 200 feet, when she found the pup was happily still hanging on to her mane.

So much for my poor little frightened pup!  She was put into her crate when I found her flaked out on the floor.  Just to avoid her being stood on really.  I did get up a couple of times during the night for puppy wees, but found that my 2 Beardie bitches did the house training for me during the day.  It was a delight to see this little scrap of a pup squatting next to her mates.  :-)

I cannot give guidance but I can tell you what I do and it seems  to work.   I had never crate trained before.   Never heard of it but a long time ago I had a crate big enough to put in the back of my land rover to house an alsatian.  When I chose a sheltie I used the crate indoors by putting vet bedding in one half and puppy training pads in the other.  Probably just by luck it worked.  Also she was not alone long at night as my husband does not go to bed before midnight and I'm a really early riser, anytime from 4 to 5.30.
I collect my new puppy in a few days so shall try the same technique except I now have a sheltie size crate in the back of my land rover with a slide in and out tray.  I intend to use the sheltie crate to bring her home slide the tray out and put it in the alsatian crate indoors so that there is continuation and puppy training pads beside it.
As regards night time I shall put her in the crate and leave my other dogs to do what they usually do. I have to remember I'm the trainer and she is being trained (lol).
I shall keep the door of the crate closed when not in use.
Just to finish I have to remember to call it a crate as I always say cage, because it is a cage, but when I say that people frown at me.  I don't like saying crate either as my husband made a kennel out of a packing crate many years ago and I thought that sounded more cruel (lol).

Don't have anything to add as the previous posters have given you some great advice. My papillon loves his crate - he happily takes himself off in there for a lay down during the day preferring it to any if his other beds scattered around the house.

One thing though - try and use a cue word when you put pup away. We can tell Finn its bedtime and he happily trots to his crate and snuggles down. It's very cute to see and means that if we have to put him away for any reason it's easy to put him away and we're not chasing him round the kitchen table!!

put it in the alsatian crate indoors so that there is continuation and puppy training pads beside it.
As regards night time I shall put her in the crate and leave my other dogs to do what they usually do. I have to remember I'm the trainer and she is being trained (lol).

I never recommend using puppy pads as they send the message that it is ok to do your business indoors when really you want them learning to toilet outside from the word go. Also, the number of people who tell me that their pups just shred the pads and toilet elsewhere in the house.....

I shall keep the door of the crate closed when not in use.

Why?

>I shall keep the door of the crate closed when not in use.

That will prevent your dog using its bed when it wants to go in for a little peace and quiet! I'm sure you don't prevent your other dogs haviung access to their beds so it doesn't make sense to prevent the new one using the crate.

My young pup has a crate (door permanently open) but it's in the utility room so she's in there at night and the other dogs are in another room.

marisa, puppy training pads are absolutely brilliant.  Better than newspaper or nothing at all.   At least when you get up in the morning the pad is just picked up and disposed of.  As regards closing the cage door, I won't close the door, that was just in reply to OP on how to keep her dogs out if she wanted to.

One thing though - try and use a cue word when you put pup away. We can tell Finn its bedtime and he happily trots to his crate and snuggles down.

I agree. We use "house". It's handy for all sorts of situations. When it's really wet and muddy, I send all my toydogs to their beds after having been outside, just for a few minutes to dry off. So I open the door to let them in from the garden, say "house!" and all 8 run straight into their cages. It also means you get the "send the dog to bed" element for the KC Good Citizen Gold test for free, as you need never train that. :)

>puppy training pads are absolutely brilliant.  Better than newspaper or nothing at all.

Shredded and swallowed pieces of training pad are much nastier to a puppy's insides than shredded and swallowed newspaper.

Thanks for all the advice everyone, it's very helpful.

I've bought a puppy Kong and a can of that Stuff N paste (I suspect it might be full of cr*p ingredients so won't use it for long).  Does anyone know how to get the stuff out of the can?!  It seems to be an aerosol and on the instructions it says "Press carefully for one or two seconds".  Press what carefully?  There's nothing obvious to press!

I've gingerly tried pushing the nozzle to the side and pressing directly down on it, but nothing.

marisa, puppy training pads are absolutely brilliant.  Better than newspaper or nothing at all.

I ran out of newspaper for my latest litter of just 3 small toy pups, and got fed up with having to buy two papers every day just for the pups to pee on in the puppy pen during the night. (We can't get newspapers delivered here, so it also involved a 6 mile round trip to buy some!) Hence I bought a packet of puppy pads. What a waste of money!! Within minutes the pups had pulled them up as they had no weight compared to the newspapers, and that left the floor bare. The next morning my living room was full of white fluff and I don't think that can have been too healthy for their eyes, noses or insides.

I had a similar experience when I tried puppy pads before. I don't for a moment believe in them for house training as it is teaching the pup it is fine to wee indoors, but I had a cat that KEPT weeing in a corner and in desperation I put puppy pads down to try to make it easier to keep clean. Same result -shredded within minutes, by the dogs.

I bought a big box of them when my puppy came home.  Put them down on the kitchen floor but soon got fed up with them.  I am using them as mattress protectors when the grandchildren stay - but lots still in the box.  Not sure what else to do with them. 

I have only ever used them in the bottom of an airline crate under shredded paper, in case of accidents during flight.

Well, zero hour tomorrow morning (and I've worked out how to get the squirty stuff out of the can now, lol!)

I just need to go round liberally spraying anti chew spray around and then I think I'm all ready!  Oo-er - excited/nervous  :-)

Hmm, puppy seems to prefer curling up on the hard wood floor next to the crate rather than getting in it.  :-D

We did say that they don't normally opt for the crate as their first choice to begin with, after all it is a contained environment and puppies would normally rather be free range lol.