When buying a puppy are you expected to pay the asking price?  Do you negotiate?

I would be very annoyed if someone tried to negotiate a cheaper price, reputable breeders put a lot of time and effort into raising a healthy litter, we never come out with a profit because of all the expense entailed and in my case only small litters.

>Do you negotiate?

That's the quickest way to be shown the door! Think about it; the breeder has put months of love and care and effort into raising these puppies, wants them to go to caring forever homes, and then someone comes along and effectively says "Your pups aren't worth the money you're asking - I want a cheaper one". Go and get a cheaper one, then, from someone who doesn't care. Haggling over the price is deeply offensive.

No negotiations for me - the price is the price, if you want less go to someone who raises them on the cheap, doesn't give a lifetime of support and yes who doesn't give a damn about our or their pups...  the choice is really simple, but don't go to some byb who's trying to get a lot of money for an untested crossbreed, contrary to popular belief they're not healthier, or a badly bred pedigree, they're going to cost a lot more in the long run, often in heartache....

As others have said, if you want to negotiate a price go and find another puppie to haggle over - you certainly wouldn't have one of mine!  I'd probably tell you to look on the other websites that offer cheaper. less well bred puppies.

Thank you all for your replies.  You all came over quite forceful.  Next question.  Or shall I start another thread?  I have been to view several breeders.  Some I would not buy from as the pups had never seen inside a home.  The one's that were genuinely born and reared indoors stunk to high heaven and made me gag.  My hands where I touched the pups still smelt when I got home.  That is why I asked the question.  What advice would you give me?

Keep looking for another litter that's been reared in a way that you're happy with. The right puppy is worth waiting for; don't support (and payfor) bad breeding practices.

As a prospective puppy buyer this year, I've spent the last few months researching my chosen breed, finding out about the current people breeding this breed and the sires that seem to be popular. The last time I bought a pup was 15 years ago and everything has moved on including the Internet, which has made researching a lot easier. I've finally chosen my breeder, been to see her and the dogs she owns and feel comfortable with my choice and am now waiting patiently to find out if the dog is pregnant (fingers very tightly crossed). I've deliberately not rushed into this as I want to get the best dog ( temperament wise) that I can. I always feel that buy cheap and you will get cheap. This pup to be will be at the higher end of the range for the breed, which I didn't know until after I had chosen this particular breeder and I wouldn't dream of haggling.
My advice is to keep searching. I presume you are looking on Champdogs for you puppy? There will be smells, but a good breeder will want to present her puppies looking their best. When I've bought pups in the past, I can remember one breeder telling me that she had to wash all the pups that morning as they were covered in food (and other things) and she wanted them to be nice and sweet smelling for us to see them.

I rear litters indoors.  There is no escaping the 'smells' of a medium sized litter at 6-7 weeks old but I try and keep both my house and the whelping box clean and tidy(helps with housetraining) and circulate fresh air and I do bathe the pups probably once a week at that age as they get into everything and you always get one that runs through poo and climbs on their siblings!!

Please take a moment to read Champdogs Puppy Buyer Guide:

http://www.champdogs.co.uk/info/puppybuyer

It will help to steer you through the minefield that can sometimes surround buying a pedigree puppy.

Reply to Bunnyfluff :

I'm afraid puppies do get stinky and this reaches it's peak at around the 5 -8 week stage. Your post offended me somewhat and I rather feel that a puppy would not be appropriate for you if you have such exacting standards . Puppies are reared in the home to ensure that they are socialised/habituated with household noises and interaction with humankind. They do not come ready made/housetrained and breeders have to compromise on standards of household fragrance. We know that while we have a litter, our homes would most certainly not be featured in Ideal Home magazine and the like.
I had a family visit last winter. The weather was so bad that the poor puppies never got out to play in the garden. I constructed an enormous pen in our living room and furnished it with play house/activity centre  and masses of toys. A very posh family came to visit - top of the range armour plated vehicle, children who looked as though they'd stepped out of a fashion mag , multiple homes in expensive parts of country etc. The husband was cold and aloof and made no attempt to interact with the dogs. His wife was very nice but clearly appalled that puppies were pooping in the pen and not already house trained. I found the whole visit humiliating and felt angered that I had allowed such silly people into my home.

>Thank you all for your replies.  You all came over quite forceful.... That is why I asked the question

Everyone is welcome to ask questions that they do not know the answers too. That is why the forum is in place after all :)

You are most welcome to ask as many questions as you wish Bunnyfluff and we will all try to give you answers that make sense. Hopefully, you will end up with a well bred puppy from a reputable breeder that you are happy with. If you do not, then we have not given you the right answers!

Well done for asking these questions..
Alot of us very passionate & can take some questions/replies the wrong way...this can quite often be because of the written word, whichh doesnt give the tone like the spoken word can.

As others have mentioned home reared pups can be more grubby depending on a variety of things ie breed & time of the year(weather etc). My recent litter were ready to leave at the very beginning of the year, right when we had all that very cold/wet weather. So apart from having 9 pups(doubly difficult), it wasnt easy to start with toilet training. Most of my potential buyers understood, those that didnt, went elsewhere. We make extra care that smells are kept to a minimum...regular cleaning/removal of dirty newspaper but also keep plugins switched on & candles are lit when visitors are due/here especially. Having said that it shouldnt smell that highly it makes you gag & if your not happy walk away.

There is certainly no movement on price, its that or go elsewhere. It isnt cheap to rear a litter the right way & the longer a puppy is kept the more costly it is. I sold 6 of my 9 pups with the first going at 10 weeks & the last going at 5 months. I dont mind saying that my expenditure was the cost of 5 pups(yes that was with £600 on electricity for heating) & that didnt include the time that was spent from before birth on the litter(no one can really account for how much that cost!!

there is no doubt that rearing pups well is a time consuming and messy business, at 6 days old I'm trying to bottle feed a youngster so am covered in milk, I've just washed the bitch so my home I'm sure is pretty rough at the moment, additionally I'd rather look after my dogs than hoover at this time.... yes there will be smells, but look at the love the breeder gives and that the pups are happy and healthy and the other dogs (esp the mother) are happy... folk who've come here have said how preferable to outside and pups in a mess, even if the house has gone to the dogs so to speak...

> The one's that were genuinely born and reared indoors stunk to high heaven and made me gag

It's hard to know whether this is normal puppy mess or worse from your post. Unfortunately puppies have a tendency to run through their poo and pee and then jump all over each other so they can smell. Personally though I've never visited a litter that made me gag. With my own litter, apart from first thing in the morning when the smell was absolutely awful, the pups themselves never smelled bad. If they did cover each other in poo before I could get to it I used baby wipes or a flannel to clean them. One of the the joys of visiting puppies is picking them up to cuddle, I wouldn't want to do that with one that made me gag.

I do wonder what breed you are looking at? It's ok to say. The reason I ask is some dogs are smelly and others have little odour, if you're visiting a breeder whose adult dogs have an aroma they may not notice or be as fastidious with the pups.

Oh and definitely no haggling with price :-)

The one's that were genuinely born and reared indoors stunk to high heaven and made me gag.  My hands where I touched the pups still smelt when I got home

I've never had pups that smell like that or have made my hands smell, I admit that I am a clean freak and my floors are constantly cleaned where pups are, a wee or poo is cleaned up immediately, on a night-time they have newspaper down and mostly only go on that so it is cleaned up quickly, floors and house fresh again by 5am and continually throughout the day. I guess it depends on whether they are in a confined space and whether they are cleaned continually or just every few hours, my pups came in and out of the garden whenever they wanted in the daytime and did most of their toileting out there, again immediately picked up.

I kind of get the smell you mean as I went with a friend of mine to collect her two dogs from kennels once they had only been in for the weekend and the smell was horrendous, my car stunk and if that is the smell you are getting in some homes I don't blame you for gagging, dogs and pups do not need to smell like that at all.

However, some breeds will have an oiler skin than others so some breeds do have a stronger odour which should not be confused for them not being kept clean.

But,  if you have sourced a good breeder, who health tests and knows and understands their breed, offers a lifetime of advice and the dogs they have are in great condition with a really good pedigree would I let a smell put me off  buying the pup, absolutely not! A smell is just that........ a smell :-) you choose your pup because of a breeders reputation and the good lines it comes from, you may well find a very houseproud  breeder but the pups may not be from a line of good health or temperament. ALWAYS PUT THAT FIRST!

I would personally buy the smelliest pup if it had everything else going for it...... :-) Don't let it be the be all and end all, but like you I would probably gag in the car if it smelt as bad as those two dogs from the kennels.... not nice at all, give me fox poo any day. :-)

Bunnyfluff I bought a puppy last August and I have found CD the biggest help in the world and I felt I was asking the silliest questions but I always got great replies.  The things I've learnt and the suggestions that I got for teething, the runs, treats, food you name it i asked the question and I've had soooo much fun trying out all the suggestions most of which I wouldn't have dreamt of in a million years so ask away and keep asking it all helps. Thanks again to you all and I'm having loads of fun still.

As Lexy says writing what you say does not come across as the spoken word.  I've got it straight now.  I pay the price without question.  Good.  As regards smell, the pups and houses are as clean as can be in the circumstances but I'm sensative to some cleaning products.  One of my daughters insists on smelly products.  Candles, plug-ins and those hippy things. I find it awful. I'm going to upset some people now but animals have got keener senses than me and I just wonder how that affects them.

It seems to me that you are looking in the wrong places.
Puppies should smell sweet and wholesome most of the time, clear eyes, soft supple skin and the breeder should be proud to have bred them.
Most of the time my puppies smell of washing powder from their clean bedding or my perfume from me cuddling them.

Avoid puppy selling sites, free ads and those who deal in several breeds.

If you negotiated with me or anyone I know you would not get a puppy.

the asking price is the price, it has been set as what the breeder considers reasonable/appropriate bearing in mind the costs and effort put into breeding and rearing the puppies.

>Candles, plug-ins and those hippy things. I find it awful. I'm going to upset some people now but animals have got keener senses than me and I just wonder how that affects them.

I quite agree with you; I'm not keen on anything like that because they tend to be so overpowering so as you say it's a thousand times worse for dogs. They rely on their sense of smell the way we rely on our sight; those strong scents are similar to us being dazzled all the time. I won't have anything like that in the rooms the dogs go in.

> Some I would not buy from as the pups had never seen inside a home.  The one's that were genuinely born and reared indoors stunk to high heaven and made me gag. 

This is why ideally puppies once running around need to have access to an outside puppy run and shelter.

That said puppies should never be really dirty or smelly if there has been a lot of rain then sometimes their feet can be stinky), and first thing in the morning when you open the kitchen door it can be whiffy until you clean them out and open the doors and windows to air.

Puppies though are little sh*t machines, and a whole litter equals an awful lot of cleaning up constantly, otherwise they will become dirty and smelly.

No room for negotiation on the price. I have the same breed as Penny GC and the ones that are fully health tested, lovingly home reared throughout, have work/show potential are in the minority I'm afraid. You can pay £100 a puppy or seven times that price in our breed - but you get what you pay for in most cases (though I do think £700 is too much imo and these breeders will end up with puppies they can't sell).

I would worry that if you're haggling over the price like a used car, what other shortcuts might you make with my precious puppy? For example, feeding cheap food, not taking to training classes, reluctant to see a vet etc. I don't mean you personally but the sort of person who expects to get a bargain. On the other hand, we have people in our breed who are trying to sell adults at the same price as puppies (and sometimes considerably more than their pups!), which really raises my eyebrows.

Do you already have a dog?  Are you sure a dog is for you?  If you are so sensitive to smells etc. a dog may not be for you.  Some breeds smell more doggy than others though.  What breed are you interested in?

Beginning to wonder what sort of home I live in, I quite like the 'puppy smell' a sort of combination between wet newspaper and biscuits, and I just can't get enough of the smell of puppies feet when they wake up - not like anything else, ah, toasty puppy feet - gosh I am getting broody.

I have always asked the price before I ask to be put on a breeders list, if you can't afford the puppy then you can't and should perhaps look at a more reasonable breed as some to me seem a ridiculous price and others, including my own, perhaps a little too cheap.

I think the question re. negotiation was a good one.   It might well have been that the tradition is to haggle a bit and it would have really embarrassed the OP to have got it wrong.

In terms of smell I have to say I absolutely love my dogs - but am really not fond of doggy smells.   My breed (Vizsla) almost never smells - apart from rolling in fox poo which they do a lot.  Even when wet they don't really have that wet dog smell.

Because I feed raw their poo's don't really smell either & they don't fart.  So ongoing bad smells are not an inevitable part of owning a dog.  Although with alarming regularity for most breeds and all puppies - you do need the willingness to clear up wee & poo & sick - and of course picking fox poo out of their ears - and the time mine had to be bathed 4 days running for the aforementioned fox poo!   

When we visited the pups there was a bit of a smell - but it was pretty slight, and the house was pretty clean.   Pups were very clean - probably easier because their coats are very short & like teflon.    We had lots of cuddles and smelt their little ears & feet.    So maybe the pups that the OP has seen are really not being brought up in great conditions - rather than the OP being too picky & over-sensitive to smell?

Do you know anyone 'in' dogs, by which I mean someone who is more deeply involved than the average pet owner, someone who shows, does obedience, has working gundogs etc.

If you do I would always advise taking such a person (assuming they are not a sucker for the ah baby puppy) along to visits to see breeders and or litters.

Not unlike taking a Car Mechanic friend with you when buying a car.

Such a person can keep you grounded and be able to tell you if your being over sensitive and unrealistic, or quite right to want to run a mile.

My first question I asked was could I negotiate?   Answer was no I cannot.  Now I want to know if anyone could gazump me?  Imagine I show an interest in a puppy but the breeder does not want a deposit just the full amount on collection day and another buyer comes along and offers more than the asking price.

I've never heard of that happening; and if it did it'd be a sign that the breeder wasn't someone you'd want to buy a puppy from anyway. You want to be having a relationship of sorts with your pup's breeder for its lifetime - would you want to stay in contact with a breeder who'd let you down like that?

That would never happen with me.  The price is the price.  No more, no less be it show or pet.....    If that did happen then it's a dodgy breeder and I would not go there.  Also I do not request a deposit.

Because I feed raw their poo's don't really smell either & they don't fart.

Perfect example of how people view smells differently. :) I find the worst part about raw feeding how it makes the poo stink like sour milk. Dry and easy to pick up but the smell I find is awful and I can't stand it.  Likewise some people find bacon smells nice, I have to leave the house if anyone cooks bacon. And there have been times when I have gone round the house looking for the stinky poo that is making the house reek, only to find it was my mother in law cooking dinner!!! (No idea what food it is that I think stinks like dog poo LOL.) :)

I actually had a kitten buyer come to me once after having been gazumped with a kitten from another breeder-first time I'd heard of it. I agree with Jeangenie that it proves the breeder was not the person you should buy from as a good breeder will have a set price and what matters to us more than anything else is the RIGHT home, not how much people will offer. It's not Ebay. :)

If a breeder did that there the sort of breeder who is only breeding for money so you won't want a pup from them anyway. There was no deposit with my pup bit some breeders do ask for one, but deposit or not a good breeder is looking at if your a good enough home for there pup not who is the highest bidder.
A friend had someone visit her litter and the couple asked if she took credit cards, don't know who they expected that.

You may have better luck not looking for a puppy but looking for a breeder, that's what did. I contacted my girls breeder a year befor the planned mating (ended up being two years untill litter was born and ready). After contacting them I asked them a few question about the breed I couldn't find the info, they invited my to come see them at a local dog show to me (as they live about 5hours away). We met Its the parents to be, I liked them they liked me. They emailed my a questionnaire to fill out then invited me to come to there home and chat about everything like the breed, ourselves, ourselves the litter will be raised etc. They put me on there waiting list. I think I went up at least twice befor the litter. By time the litter was born we wernt just seller and buyer we were friends.

> better luck not looking for a puppy but looking for a breeder,

I quite agree, you are best, to pick breed, then breeder, and only then a puppy.  The important thing is the breeder.

Assuming you do not have wide variation in type in your breed, like you do say in Show or Working Labradors, English Springers, and Cockers, or even wide variation in the various bloodlines like within German Shepherds, then it should be a given the breeder will be breeding with dogs of excellent temperaments, health and adherence to breed standard. 

They will more than likely be best placed to pick the right puppy for you in their litter.

I always say to prospective puppy owners meet the breeder and the dogs without the distraction and temptation of puppies already on the ground.

>My first question I asked was could I negotiate?   Answer was no I cannot.  Now I want to know if anyone could gazump me?  Imagine I show an interest in a puppy but the breeder does not want a deposit just the full amount on collection day and another buyer comes along and offers more than the asking price.

A breeder that would do that is not someone you would want to be dealing with. However it could happen that the breeder themselves decides to keep the puppy you thought you were promised. This happened to me a couple of years back, I went down when the puppies were 9 weeks old (we'd been emailing regularly since before the puppies were born and had sent me pictures of the 2 or 3 I was to choose between, after they'd taken their pick), picked my puppy out, but couldn't take her that day as I was going on holiday the next week. The following day the breeder emailed to say their 'pick' had developed a wrong mouth since the last time they looked, and therefore they were keeping 'my' puppy instead. I was not best pleased - of course I understand they were breeding for themselves to keep one to show, but I had already become attached to this puppy and had sent pictures and video that I had taken the previous day to all my friends, and then the breeders had changed their minds at the last minute. If I'm honest, the thing that narks me most is that they've had several litters since and have not bothered to check with me whether I was still looking for a puppy, after letting me down at the last minute.

Now I want to know if anyone could gazump me?

If the breeder let that happen then I would say steer clear of that breeder.  As for smell, a puppy should smell like a puppy, not smelling of wee and poo, yes they do run through wee then jump on each other but a good breeder should keep on top of that and in my opinion the house shouldn't smell of it either.

Alarm bells would ring to me if I entered a house and the puppies stank especiallly on my hands like you discribe.  I would immediately think 'puppy farm front' the puppies have been reared outside in puppy farm then delivered to a private house as a front.  Puppies reared in farms will smell appalling and even a single bath would not remove the stench.  PF and BYB's are getting wise to what the public are expecting to see when picking a puppy and private houses are used for this purpose.  Or they were reared out the back and all brought in for viewings to make them look home reared.  There is a world of difference in home reared puppies by the breeders here and what BYB's called home reared.  They'd rear them in a box under the stairs with no light and still called it home reared!

Very good point Multitask, you may well be right there, pups must sit in their wee and have dirty bedding etc to have such an embedded smell I would think.

Bunnyfluff please only source pups of your chosen breed/s via Breed clubs or on Champdogs where every care is taken to have reputable breeders. :-)

Or they were reared out the back and all brought in for viewings to make them look home reared.  There is a world of difference in home reared puppies by the breeders here and what BYB's called home reared.  They'd rear them in a box under the stairs with no light and still called it home reared!

This is a good point, and to the original poster -you can usually easily spot puppies that are NOT used to being inside the house and having lots of human contact by the way they act. If they live indoors they will be charging around playing, clearly used to the environment. If they are not used to being there, they will be cautious when walking around.

You're right Goldmail, you often see them 'posed' in pictures where they clearly are not used to/comfortable in the environment. Same with the well known (but KC reg puppies) puppy farmer in my breed who always puts a vid of pups on her website and they are always cowed in a group on the lawn/huddled up against a wall, too afraid to move. She now has 4 breeds on her website.

Yes if you think price is high then may be negotiate.

saimgee123 have you bothered to read any of this thread?

I'm thinking troll, judging by some of the other posts I have seen from him/her today.....

I'm thinking this poster is from a different dog owning culture and English is a second language.

>I'm thinking this poster is from a different dog owning culture

I agree :)