Hi,

I have been trawling the net trying to find info regards prevention/cure of lungworm caused by slugs and snails and have only just found this site and read some of the old posts regarding lungworm and Panacur.  I have been worming my beardie and beardie/border x  for several years on a 3 monthly basis with Panacur as I was told it was fine for Lungworm - My garden is "plagued" with slugs and snails.  I found out today that what my vet failed to tell me was that there are 2 types of lungworm and the only product to use for lungworm caused by slugs and snails is Advocate. 

I am aware that collie breeds, especially Border collies, rough collies and also Old English sheepdogs can be susceptible to side effects.  I am also told that there is a test that can be done to check if a dog has the MDR1 gene which would make a dog a candidate for side effects - of course my vet doesn't do it !! 

I am checking with my beardies' breeder and stud dog owner to see if they have used Advocate on either or both the mother and father, hopefully they have with no side effects which would mean (again hopefully) that my beardie boy doesn't carry the gene.  However my beardie/border x girl was a rescue and I  have no way of checking with her breeders so I have two options  1) to try to find a vet/laboratory that can do the test  or 2) take a chance and use Advocate and pray Bonnie doesn't suffer any side effects - "it's a case of being between the devil and the deep blue sea"

What I can advise is that even if Panacur was used "on a daily basis" it would have no effect on the lungworm caused by slugs and snails.  I hope this is of some help.

If anyone knows of a vet that will do the MDR1 gene test (is it by taking blood or cheek swab ? I don't know and my vet was less thanforthcoming !!!) I would be very grateful to hear from you.
Thank you

As far as I know it's done by cheek swabs and not via a vet. Can't remember offhand which labs do it, probably Laboklin, hopefully someone else can answer that.

Laboklin do the test.

Email them and they will post out the swabs to use including instructions.

It costs about £85 ish......

> It costs about £85 ish......

I have a feeling there may be another lab which charges less. I'll ask some people I know who have had the test done.

I have been informed that Genomia also do the MDR1 test -
http://www.genomia.cz/en/test/mdr1/

Thank you everyone for replying it's great to have backup,  I have found Laboklin (UK) and read the info, the fee is £72.50, I am waiting for info from Zach's (the beardie) parent's owners, once I have that I can make a decision about him,  Bonnie I will definitely have done.
Again thanks and Good night all

> the only product to use for lungworm caused by slugs and snails is Advocate. 
>

No Panacur is effective against the slug/snail one, but the dosage is different.  It needs to be given at half dose daily over a week.  I know this as a bitch I bred, who lived in the home Counties (where it was first found to be prevalent) 10 years ago at a year of age was very ill with this and it was before we had Advocate.

She was put on monthly treatments of Panacur, which definitely worked, as she had an established snail eating habit.

She had been recently spayed and the owner rang me to ask whow long it woudl be before she was back to normal as she was very tired, couldn't keep up with ehr friends when excersisting,a dn thsi was several weeks after ehr spay.  I told ehr it was not normal beavioru for a rtecently spayed youngster and that there was soemthign seriously wrong.  The vet diagnosed the French heartworm/Lungworm, which was newly being seen.

It treats all strongylid species in various animals, it's why it is used from Rabbits to LLamas, as Fenbendazole is effective against so many classes of parasites.

I also beleive Milbemax may also be effective, but again it is one of the Ivermectin derived/related treatments.  See NOAH compendium http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Novartis_Animal_Health_UK_Ltd/Milbemax_Tablets_for_small_dogs_and_puppies_Milbemax_Tablets_for_dogs/-51505.html

And to get rid of the snails,lots of ideas here....
http://practicalpermaculture.com/2011/07/eleven-ways-to-get-rid-of-slugs-and-snails/

This makes interesting reading
http://www.verm-x.com/blog/2/are-we-lungworm-aware-or-lungworm-advertising-aware-.php

Barbara/Brainless is right and your vet is wrong:  Panacur DOES protect against lungworm - not only that, but it protects against it *more effectively* than Advocate does.  This is demonstrated in this research paper, which I'd suggest you print out and show your vet:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17544583

(Fenbendazole is Panacur and imidacloprid/moxidectin spot-on is Advocate.)

Panacur's own leaflet/instructions do not state that it protects against Angiostrongylus vasorum, only against another lungworm (oscilirides or something) - however as is obvious from that research paper, Panacur DOES treat the lungworm everyone's worried about in the UK (Angiostrongylus vasorum).  They just have not updated their leaflet and gotten on the lungworm marketing bandwagon, as Advocate has.

You do need to give a 7 day dose of it, as per the instructions.

And then there is another wormer - Milbemax - which you can give a one-off dose of, and that also covers lungworm.  But be careful if you have a collie breed as it contains milbemycine oxime which collies can't tolerate.

I'm sick and tired of vets promoting Advocate as the only preventative for lungworm when it isn't.  It is about their own ignorance and about marketing and money.

Re MDR1 test, dead easy to do yourself by cheek swab. Animal Genetics charge a mere £32 - bargain :-)

http://www.animalgenetics.eu/Canine/Canine-disease/canine-MDR1-Multi-drug-Resistance.html

Results take about a week.

Thanks to Barbara/Brainless/Rabid/Trialist for all you advice/info I have printed all info off the various sites.  I have also emailed Panacur mfr for update on Panacur, to include treatmen/dosage etc for Angiostrongylus vasorum then I will  "confront" my vets with information they are obviously sadly lacking !!!!I think I will have both my dogs tested rather than waiting for breeder's response.  The cost is unbelievably good against other labs prices - definitely a bargain !!

For treatment/dosage for Panacur, just take it from that paper I posted the link to - that was the dosage used in that study.  It is very difficult to overdose on Panacur as it is an extremely safe wormer and that's the reason it's most commonly used on pregnant and nursing bitches and puppies.

Hi,  Have printed off the link you gave me and will take it to my vet to read.  In the meantime I emailed MSD Animal Heath re Panacur and below is their response:
quote:
Panacur is licenced to treat the lungworm species 'Oslerus Osleri'.
Unfortunately panacur is not licenced for the treatment Angiostrongylus Vasorum.
Kind Regards
Emily Cook RVN MBVNA 
Technical Advisor
National Product Quality Coordinator
MSD Animal Health
unquote

I note that MSD don't state it is not a treatment for Angiostrongylus Vasorum only that they are not licensed for treatment .......am I right in assuming because the other drug companies have "cornered" the market MSD cannot license for Angio. Vasorum ?!!!!

So I will present the paper mention above to my vets "assuming" we can use Panacur and see their response.
 

>am I right in assuming because the other drug companies have "cornered" the market MSD cannot license for Angio. Vasorum ?!!!

Getting a drug licenced costs the company money. They have to weigh up the cost against the likely income.

JG is right, it costs time and money and re-printing of documentation etc etc to license it for another use.  Plus, since it has to be used for 7 consecutive days to be effective for lungworm - on a monthly basis - and that's a pain - they are probably assuming not many people want to do that and it's not worth licensing it.  (As compared to Milbemax or Advocate which are one-off treatments for one day.)

It quite clearly does work for lungworm, as explained in that study I posted the link to.