Hi there, this is my first time on this site and I have decided to use it because I've noticed that people do not get slated for asking questions here and it seems there are truly caring people and answers. Well my dog has had a really good pregnancy and she is now on day 58, she has not been nesting, panting. But this morning I've noticed that she has now got milk in her glands, she also spent the night in her whelping box and she's there just now. I took her temp on Monday and Tuesday, she was at 37.8 and 37.7.  just took her temp there and she's at 36.7. I am really hoping she goes into labour tonight or tomorrow because she is really really big and I worry about her size. She has got four pups the vet said possibly five. I guess what I would like to know is could she go into labour tonight, when does the shivering and panting start. She's had a clear, very sticky and odourless discharge for about four days now. Please give me some support, I am all by myself as my breeding mentor is away at the moment. (didnt know she was going). Thanks people. Gareth & Mia

It's just a case of wait and see, not all girls shiver and pant or nest for that matter. One of my girls just has the puppies, none of the aforementioned signs. Some of them seem to get a "glazed look" just before they give birth. As her temp is dropping it sounds like she is on her way. I would stay with her from now on just to make sure. Good luck.

I agree with Lynne. I have only bred two litters so no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but my bitch does none of the nesting signs. She does get a bit restless before hand, but you have to be watching her to notice. Good luck.

Thanks for your reply, yeah I think she is on her way now. She has went back into her whel2ping box for about an hour but now she's back up on my bed. I don't mind if she has her pups on my bed because I prepared for that too with plenty of blankets and a big decorating plastic sheet underneath all that. I will keep you all informoed of her progress, may need some more support soon. Thanks

My Jozi just went straight into delivering on day 59 so took me a bit by surprise, though to be fair the day before she was a bit clingy, so I took  her to dog taining to watch and chat!!!

So your dogs never had any panting or shivering at all. Thats quite scary really, I hope to god she doesn't do that while I'm sleeping. I am a light sleeper so hopefully I would hear something and get to her ok. Yeah she has been clingy but then she is anyway. I am popping back and forth into the bedroom just to check and make sure she's fine. She has a huge tummy so I do think she will go early and probably benefit from it too, but this makes me think she will just pop them out in no time as well as the other users post.

In my girls case the labour itself after th first pup was slow and the fifth and last was stillborn (3 hours between pups and an oxytocin jab to pass the last).

Also size can be misleading as mien was huge and 5 was not a large litter for the breed.

Next time she wasn't as large, had 7 and whelped much more quickly at the more usual 20 minutes to an hour intervals. 

The difference was the amount of water, the first litter she had loads the next not much

Do you not have any breeder friend locally (someone from Ringcraft etc) that the bitch knows well (doesn't matter what breed), who can come in and help you, if nothing else by supplying cups of tea.

I had an experienced friend in another breed come, as well as one of my breed mentors (bitches breeder) on the phone.

As your mentor is away could you have the stud dog owner (assuming they breed) on the phone for support, and to share the excitement.

Don't forget to let teh Vet practice know, so they can be expecting a call if needed, and of course let them know once all is over.

No help to the OP but do you not think that the amount of fluid is more with a smaller litter and it is there to protect so smaller litter more space to be filled and therefore more fluid.

It is many years since I have had anything to do with whelping but all bitches are different the main thing is to watch for the start of contractions and not to let them go on for too long, always go out with her, if dark with a torch. Ignore what your vet said about numbers and expect there to be at least 2 more or less.

Hi all, thanks for all your advice. I do have someone on standby for when she goes into proper labour, she's a friend of my mums who has helped in many whelping cases. The problem being that she can only come if she's inmy area at the time, but yes I have called the stud dog owner just there (thanks for the suggestion). She said that she is more than happy to come and help, she is getting first choice of the puppies so it's in her interest to make sure all is well so thanks for that. I am well prepared for a couple of extra puppies, I know that there are definately four as the vet talked me through it when he was doing the ultra sound, he was a little iffy about there being a fifth but said it's a possibility, although I do think there are six judging by her size and the amount of movement. I do hope that I don't have a still born as I am quite an emotional person and don't know how i'll cope with that. Will Mum know that she has a still born or not.

> I do hope that I don't have a still born as I am quite an emotional person and don't know how i'll cope with that.

I hate stillborns, but it is better than loosing them in the first few weeks after birth, both of which happens quite often as nature has inbuilt redundancy by having the species produce multiple offspring.

It is all too easy to let losses take away your enjoyment of the rest of the litter, so try not to dwell should it happen.

Good luck.

I have had 2 of my girls scanned, the first the vet said there was 3 and she had 6, the second he saw 4 and she had 8 so ignore numbers. You can usually tell by gently putting your hand on the tummy, if it is still tight, there are usually more to come. Mum should still clean the pup if it is alive or not.
I would put paper in the whelping box and if she starts to nest, you will hear the paper being torn, a good alarm clock. This is what I did 2 weeks ago. My girl had 7 from 1.45am to 6.15am so very quick, especially for a first litter.

Another great tip there, I have got blankets in the whelping box but yes i shall put some paper in there right now.
The box is right next to my bed so I will definately wake up when she ruffles about.

I have one more question, if she did have a poor wee still born i shall bury it but when should I remove it from her.

I probably wont be bck on tonight as I'm an early bedder but I will go and make sure Mia is okay first, put papeer in her box and I will hope for puppies tonight or tommorow at some point. Thankyou all for your help and advice. I'll keep you informed tommorow, thanks guys. x

I don't put any blankets (well I don't use blankets) or vet bed in until after all pups have arrived.

I use hand shredded newspaper in the box, so you can hear the bitch moving about and it is much easier to remove soiled shredded paper than sheets. 

Shredding more paper also passes the time during whelping keeping you from flapping.

I tear the newspaper along the spine, then once more down the length and then into about inch wide strips along the short widths.

Paper is a great insulator and will help keep the pups warm and dry.

I take the still born ones away straight away, as long as it's not the first one, she will look for it but best to do it sooner rather than later. I don't put vet bed in until after the pups are born, as said, paper is so easy to move, just make sure you have lots and a bin bag beside the whelping box to put the soiled paper in.

You take any pups that appear lifeless and try to revive them with vigorous rubbing, draining/suction fluids from airways and give Dopram V drops making sure there is a heart beat or giving cardiac massage/mouth to mouth to help it circulate.

If you fail to bring the pup to life then don't give it back to Mum

Good Luck

I am popping back and forth into the bedroom just to check and make sure she's fine.

I sleep at the side of the whelping box for 7 days before due date and until at least the pups' eyes open.  That way I won't miss any signs that whelping is imminent and avoid the bitch smothering any puppies afterwards.

Any progress?

Hi everyone, Well Mia went into labour this morning, i noticed that she started panting and a little bit of shivering. It has started and stopped all day today. I have done everything that people have suggested to me as you guys know best. But now I worry why it is starting and stopping, how long should this last for and when should it become more obvious, she is not showing any visible signs of contractions yet. I am waiting for my breeding mentor to arrive but it feels like forever to me right now. I called the vet this morning to let them know she went into first stage labour ad they said to keep an eye on her. Asking how long this should last they just said "how long is a piece of string."

One of my girls would start labour 7-8am but not have the first pup till near midnight when everything was quiet including the neighbours, my first litter my vet said majority of less observant breeders don't even notice the start but as I have my girls in bed with me during the night I know they have slept well, had breakfast then get going.

Provided she isn't distressed, passing any green gunk before a pup and labour continues then there is no need to worry, any concerns discuss with vet over the phone, I had 2 mentors at the end of the phone and the vet during my first whelping for support.

Thanks, she is going from the bedroom whelping box into the living room and has been doing this all day. At this moment she is in the living room and sleeping next to me, no panting, shivering but her breathing is a bit faster thats all. So no sign of any distress, bad odours or green goo, i have been reading that this stage can last quite a while so I guess I have a bit of a wait on my hands then. I just can't help but get worried for her. I do hope she doesnt hold of for too long (poor soul). She has managed to eat just one slice of cold meat, she is drinking and her stools are runny, infact she seems to be oozing a little faeces all day and still has a clear more runnier vaginal discharge that does not smell.

They always have a "clear out" before the birth hence the poo.

Her bowels will empty frequently due to the pups moving down and pressing on the rectum, same with the bladder, leaves more room in the pelvis.

When you take her out be sure to take a torch and something to catch a pup as wanting a poo can result in a pup being born, one member missed a pup born outside for 5 hours, surprisingly it survived.

Napping is good as she is conserving her energy, don't worry about eating as all other systems slow down and you don't want food in her stomach if she needs surgery, I give vet/nutridrops each hour, full of energy but only 1ml for my small dogs and let them drink water if they want, vanilla icecream gives energy, calcium and liquid if you don't have any nutridrops.

It is very much a waiting game

mia had seven pups, all fine except one. he was a dry birth and he's not nursing AT All, I AM TYPING WITH ONE HAND COS IVE TO HAND REAR HIM JUST NOW  . He was 134g at birth, he went to 134 @3.00pm and now he at 135g at 3.35pm. i am syringing him some sub milk little but often, every 15 mins. I will do all i can to help him survive. It took 20 mins to get him to breath properly, was taking a breath every four secs or so. any advice greatly welcome please.

sorry he was 139g at birth, biggest was 23.4g. 4 boys 3 girls.

You really do not want to be giving substitute milk to the little one this soon, but get him onto Mum as it is vital to get the colostrum that contains all the vital protection from Mum.  Make sure he is thoroughly warm, as a chilled pup cannot assimilate milk.

i understand brainless but he will not latch on and is pushed out to the edge every single time. We have ytried and tried and tried and tried, we managed to get a teaspoon of mums first milk into his mouth but thats all. I am at a loss. Mum has a discharge which the mentor said is normal, it's a greeny brownish and not smelly. She is panting a little. I have got calcium tablets to give her for a couple of weeks.

Puppy is on a warm hot water bottle, not hot but just right. Is it normal for mum to pant a little.

Very normal for mum to pant....she may well carry on panting for the next three weeks or longer whilst feeding them. As your mentor said green/blacky/brown discharge normal and can carry on for some time.

Hope your little one pulls through....is it worth ringing the vet to see if they have any colostrum replacement? I know you can order it online but you obviously need it quicker.

You have to keep trying and hold him onto the teat so he can't be pushed off.  It is worth letting one of the others start on a tat and pull them off and get him on instead.

Puppies (animals) that do not get their mothers colostrum have very little chance of survival, hopefully what you managed to get off Mum will have helped, can you get any more for him.

I have occasionally had to try for several hours/most of the day to get some thicko pups to latch on.  Are her teats too big for him, if so try one of the teats near her front legs to start with.

I have got calcium tablets to give her for a couple of weeks.

Why?

he will not latch on and is pushed out to the edge every single time. We have ytried and tried and tried and tried,

It can take up to 48 hours for a weaker pup to latch on.  It's important to keep trying.  Allow one of the stronger pups to get the milk flowing then unplug it and give the little one chance on the teat.  And you need to be protecting him from being pushed off by the others.

Hi everyone, firstly i want to thank you all for your great advice. So thanks guys. Our little boy had to go to the vet because he started urinating blood. The vet took one look at him and said immediately that he had brain trauma from the birth process. Aswell as underlying problems he would not know about. He was throwing his head back when trying to nurse and apparently this is a bi sign, he had no balance what so ever and looked really clumsy. Anyway my vet said that it would be kind to let him go. So thee wee boy is at peace now and I'm just going to give him a little burial now. Thanks guys.
I won't be breeding again as I found this too distressing and too worrying process for me. I guess its not for everyone. x

Sorry to hear about your little one. I lost 2 in my current 5.5 week old litter and it is never easy but one of the things you have to accept can happen if you breed.
RIP little one. At peace now.

Sorry the little boy didn't make it, taking so long to get him going may have caused brain damage, RIP little one.

Enjoy the rest of the pups.

You don't need calcium supplements just calcium rich foods, goats milk, yoghurt, cottage cheese etc. are enough to give a boost enough to cope with what will be drained in her milk supply.

Sorry to hear about your little man...you tried so hard for him.

I hope the rest of your litter give you a lot of joy over the next few weeks and don't write off doing it again. Some of my litters I felt I was going insane with worry and never doing it again but we always do, lol.

Good luck and hope the all goes well for you from now on x

>  I have got calcium tablets to give her for a couple of weeks.

It's common practice to give extra calcium after the puppies are born, though not everyone does it. We always do, we use Collo-cal D. Not sure what breed you have but I think Toy breeds can be quite prone to eclampsia so giving extra calcium can be a way of guarding against it.

Good luck with the rest of your litter, sorry about the one you lost.

I always give calcium tablets too.....

I thought nowadays people said not to give calcium tablets as it can actually cause eclampsia....?

> I thought nowadays people said not to give calcium tablets as it can actually cause eclampsia....?

Only if given during pregnancy.

Ah, ok, thanks. :-)