I have had a couple of mini tantrums when puppy has wanted his own way.  He makes straight for any flowers in the flower bed - ignoring all weeds of course - I put up a temporary fence to stop him but OH took it down to mow the lawns.  Puppy dives into the middle of the tulips snapping at the flower heads.  I picked him up and he growled and snapped at me.  I just held him close until he calmed down.  Having had one dog that snapped when she was young - I kept my hands away for fear of getting bitten - my husband scruffed her - we now have one dog that has learnt that snapping keeps hands away I don't want another.  Meg gives no warning when she snaps (not one that most people see that is) .  The consequences for handling this incorrectly are so enormous I need advice.  
One source says to tell them off another says to say nothing and hold them to you until they calm down.  I tend to do the later although feel that I should be telling him off then I put him for time out in his pen.
   The other rather unavoidable time that pup snaps and growls is when I go to pick him up to carry him down the steps.  I have to carry him up and down steps to the lawn.  He knows now that I am going to pick him up and is avoiding it.  I have tried carrying a surprise treat in my hand but we are still getting confrontation time.  Perhaps picking him up on a full stomach is uncomfortable for him but until he can walk outside I have no choice - except to let him tackle the steps by himself - not good either.    So to tell him off sternly or keep very quite and just hold him??  Or is there an alternative?

No telling off - that would just teach him to NOT warn when he's uncomfortable.

I would not hold him like this either, he obviously diliskes being picked up, continuing to pick him up and then hold him will make his efforts to warn you off more intense and could escalate and spread to include you approaching him that sparks his outburst.

Personally, I would pop a lead on him when in the garden and use that to lead him away from things, you can use a toy or food as a lure with a verbal cue to get him to go where you want & praise accordingly, so you have the double effect of stopping him doing something you don't want him doing, while training some wanted behaviour in & you also can never have too much lead-practice :) .

If the garden steps are the only ones you are picking him up for, then i would stop that and either ensure he navigates the steps calmly by leashing him or putting a tempory ramp in the garden so he can avoid the steps.

If you really have to be picking him up, then you need to start some seperate work on that, starting out by picking him up/encouraging him onto your lap while you are sat on the floor and also not holding him to you so he can't escape etc.
Remember it's all about setting pup up for success, so avoid situations that will cause a negative reaction and for things you know will cause such a reaction - train him to be happy about it with some positive association :)

>until he can walk outside I have no choice

Sorry, only just noticed this bit. Do you need to cross public areas to get to your lawn?

Oh no - I don't have to cross public areas but our garden is on the first floor level and up a few more steps again.  I either have to take him up stone steps outside or an ordinary straight flight of stairs inside and over a bridge to a patio level then up onto the lawn.  Never thought we would have a problem.  Just took him out on his lead now and he started it tugging it and getting it wound round him.  Went to unclip it and he was jumping up and biting my hands again.  He has a strong will I can see that.   To walk on the flat I would have to go out on the road - ground  floor level.  We have a big garden but it does require climbing up to it.  First thing in the morning he is quite happy to be picked up and greets me enthusiastically.  The rest of the day he doesn't want it.  I am also taking him out for a walk around the town in my arms to get him used to traffic and meeting people. 

Have taken him out every time with a lead but had to let him off to get him to run around for a poo!  Have a tube of cheese now so he can lick that when I put lead on and when I pick him up.  Have got my Susan Garrett book out - Ruff Love and been reading up. 

I see, with all the steps, why you need to be carrying him then.

> Have a tube of cheese now so he can lick that when I put lead on and when I pick him up.

That's good thinking :-D
If he's fine with being carried around town and carried in the morning, perhaps he's just being playfull with the biting & growling? The avoiding you when you go to pick him up during the day may be about him turning it into a game?

>had to let him off to get him to run around for a poo

LOL, that takes me back to when Buster was a pup, it's such a tricky, time-consuming event to get then to have a poo!

You need to avoid all instances of opposition by making yourself as desirable and positive as possible - ie - having food and going to pup with food when you need to do something the pub is going to object to.  Don't try to pick pup up until you are feeding him and have the food on his nose.  If you do this every time, he will soon love you coming to pick him up.

ceejay
Just to say that hubby scruffing a pup will only add to the dogs aggression.  Also, apologies if you already know, but I would recommend Ian Dunbar's "The bite stops here."

> Just to say that hubby scruffing a pup will only add to the dogs aggression.  Also, apologies if you already know, but I would recommend Ian Dunbar's "The bite stops here."

I think she said that was with a previous dog they had... And agree about the Ian Dunbar article :)

More updates on the pup please, sounds like he will be a real character! strong willed ones can be the hardest work and the best fun.

Had a chat with my friend - who also runs the puppy training class - she hasn't had a dog like that herself but she agreed - no physical stuff - (hubby now wants to tap on the nose! )  Pup has been on the lead all evening while I was out and was not that easy for hubby - pup seems to be more active in the evening at the moment.

Because he is rather strong willed he has been challenging Meg to chase him - poor Meg is easily wound up and has joined in.  First of all we thought it was funny but now I have put a stop to it completely - if they are winding each other up to the extent they are no longer listening to me then I won't be getting a calm puppy.  So the lead helps control the pup and I can speak to Meg to control her before it gets too far.   Puppy jumped up a couple of times to nip me this evening - that is definitely play because he has been doing it to Meg.  Not the same as the keep your hands off me growl and nip though.  I so wanted an easier dog this time - it has made me feel quite down today.  I have had years of working with Meg and nearly giving up on her - now I have a whole new challenge. 

All pups are challenging in one way or another :)
Bringing in one to an existing dog presents extra challenges.
It's hard work but it's not forever, and you'll find a way.

>  I so wanted an easier dog this time - it has made me feel quite down today

No, don't feel down! :(

Look at yesterday, you came up with the idea of the tube of cheese and used it to your advantage - that's great thinking and it did the job. I don't think pup is overly strong willed, I think he's playfull and bitey like a typical pup :) It' sooooo easy to forget how bitey and how much work they can be.

I think you are much, much more capeable of this than you realise, have some faith in yourself :)

Have you read 'The Bite Stops Here'? It's great way to deal with puppy-biting.

Thanks for that link Kerry.  I have been working at calming both dogs down this morning.  Puppy is in his pen and Meg has settled down by me.  Before we had the pup Meg would have disappeared somewhere in the house or the garden and snoozed.  Now she doesn't leave my side!  I thought I would be doing a bit of training with her when the pup was sleeping and training the pup when Meg was out of the way.  Meg has become much more attentive now she competition.  Makes working with both of them difficult.

That is an excellent article - I think I read something like it a long time ago.  Thanks once again.  Have printed it out to keep.

The article is goot, I've only just read through all the posts and see Jean had allready recomened it :)

I would refer back to it quite often, it helped me keep myself in check at times when I felt victimised and out of my depth with pup (LOL, especially the time Buster knocked me over, jumped on me so I couldn't get up and had great fun biting my head & pulling my hair - I actually cried that day - thought I would never be able to teach him anything) I used it a lot to remind myself that I didn't have a four legged demon, he was a just a puppy doing what puppies do :)

>Now she doesn't leave my side!

It's suprising, isn't it, how much having a puppy about changes the adult dogs behaviour. When I brought Buster home, our other dog was 13yrs old. Prior to pups arival, oldie would have a little potter around the house/garden now & then, but mostly sleep. Once pup was here he was on the go most of the time. I kept them seprated with a stair-gate unless I was free to strictly supervise them, as pup wouldn't leave oldie alone, he'd get himself so wound up.

>I have been working at calming both dogs down this morning.

Well done :) When you've sussed a strategy/routine that works for you, it's a lot easier :)

off the main post a bit....

It's suprising, isn't it, how much having a puppy about changes the adult dogs behaviour.
We had a x-breed girl about 13 yrs old, at about 12 she was spayed after pyo and then had a tumor removed from tonsil area of her throat, she was really old and potter - y. We adopted a 2½ yr boy off some friends. We used to say we weren't sure if she was into 'toyboys' or he was into 'grab a granny' but it gave her about 1½ - 2yrs of quality life till the tumor came back.

I don't know how old your puppy is but a trailing line may help you, as will a stake outside. If you need to limit his movement tie his line to the required length to the stake- not for hours obviously but to limit his movement while you do important jobs. You can give him something nice to chew or a suitably stuffed kong.

For very,very bitey pups who do not back off with yelps etc.. then quick goes on a short line on the stake/tie-up stations indoors, while you walk away and blank them for minutes at a time, can help. This is punishment that any normal, social pup/dog understands- you do that and the fun/access to me stops. It's what Dunbar advocates and it has worked for me when dealing with one horrendous play-biter in particular. There is no emotion on your part just simple cause and effect repeated for each infraction.

Am I right that your puppy is only 8 - 9 weeks old?

You and hubby are expecting far too much from him, he's a baby, I can't believe that your hubby has already scruffed him and wants to smack his nose, ceejay that is an absolute NO!

Do not start going down this road, you know from Meg how hard it will be to correct afterwards. I think the further away hubby is kept from the pup whilst young the better, take control yourself of the pup until he is older and then hubby can join in with training, you don't want his theories to damage him.

Pups can be complete loonies none stop little power houses, some can be bossy and never seem to stop, they will bite and destroy anything they come into contact with, a pup knows no difference between a bed of flowers and a toy, everything is to be explored, chewed and dug, it is what pups do, if you don't protect your precious things you can never blame a pup for getting to them, and they should not be told off for it, a pups life should be full of joy and no negative interactions, it can scar them for life.

So firstly it is your job to secure your flowers, shoes, furniture etc,  be vigilant and distract him from doing things you don't like by offering a new game, use a tuggie or throw something to chase and retrieve, treats won't work for things like distraction, your voice tone will,  it needs to be happy and high pitched this will interest him and break him off to see why you are calling him, only use treats to teach new commands (when he is calm) until he understands them, afterwards you reward with a good boy and a pat/stroke, don't go overboard on food treats, praise and a high tone holds more interest.

If you are not there watching him contain him somewhere where he can do no damage, section off parts of the garden/house for him. Use time outs for him when over-tired and not calming, but let him play and be a loonie for a time, he's supposed to do that. :-) Life is all about play and fun for a pup.

He absolutely will chase and go mad after playing with Meg, it is how pups play, don't worry Meg will teach him puppy manners if not straight away then eventually, give Meg somewhere to escape if the pup is annoying her though, or put the pup in time out or to play with you instead.

Ignore behaviours you don't like and continue with Ian Dunbars - The bite stops here, and yelp if he bites too hard, but whilst carrying him down the garden steps, why not wear garden gloves to protect your hands, and long sleeves to protect your arms, stay calm and praise him when he does not bite you, ignore when he does, no negative responses at all. The worst you do to a pup is ignore him or put him in time out, he is a baby and knows no different.

They grow up so fast and they learn so fast, this time will be over in a blink of the eye and if you stay calm, your pup will grow to be calm too, not defensive or worried about your reaction.

Good luck ceejay, I really want your second dog to be the opposite of Meg, (and some of her issues) you so deserve it, so keep on the right path here. Praise, praise, praise all the way and get going with that clicker, they pick up the whistle and clicker really fast if you are consistent, I start as soon as they are home, I use a nice piece of chicken to train with but only until they get the command, afterwards a high pitched good boy will work just the same. :-)

He's just being a pup. :-)

Oh no Carrington - it was Meg he scruffed at a young age for snapping ! 

Phew........... thank goodness, at least that lesson was learnt then. ;-)

You'll be ok, try not to worry too much, or push too hard, just let him ease into your lives he'll learn his way around you all soon enough. :-)

Thanks Carrington for pointing out his age, I had thought by the conversation that he was considerably older. I wouldn't use a trailing line on a pup this young, you can just walk away/ignore. If they get really bitey it can often be a sign of over-tiredness too, pups can get over excited and then not know how to wind down. Agree with the Ian Dunbar methods as well as redirecting bitey behaviour onto appropriate chew toys. If you can get him into a chewy you could hold that while carrying him.

Yes I think I was panicking a bit - he has been very good today with me - I gave Meg her Kong Wubba to play with to stop her playing with pup after they had just both eaten.  Pup got very excited at the squeaking and was barking.  I called him to me - once!  He turned away from what was a real distraction and came straight and sat in front of me.  I admit to grabbing him from the flower border - which may have made him jump - saw my husband do it this afternoon.  I have been calling him away whenever he has been doing something I didn't want - got some nice sausages to tempt him.  Run out of chicken - haven't had time to got shopping!!!  He needs higher value treats to get him going.  Feel happier today - the Ian Dunbar article is great because it spells out what to do - it was the panic and other information out there that in conflicting.  For instance I never got Meg tugging when she was young because it was frowned on with a dog that is prone to snapping one source said.  It has taken me years to get Meg to focus on any tuggy toy when she has exciting agility training going on around her.  Then it is only one toy - a Kong snake!

Yes, do be careful of grabbing as pups can find that scary. Meant to say also that many, many pups have a natural aversion to heights and so being quickly lifted and whooshed up into the air, especially around a fear period, can also be scary. This is not to say that pups shouldn't be picked up, it's good to get them used to it, but bear in mind that it might be scary for them- again distraction is good. Liked your cream cheese idea.