We have an eight month old Black Labrador pup. We've had him since he was three months old and we love him to bits. However I am convinced that he is the naughtiest dog on earth!
We took him to puppy training, which was no good - even the trainers found him a handful! He is soooo greedy - the minute food is about he loses all sense, so treat training was useless! He is a jumper too and his chewing is incessant. He has chewed up our hallway carpet.......!
people keep telling me this is normal for a labrador puppy. Can this be true?
We are trying to do everything right - he gets two long walks a day, he is not left alone for long periods and we try our hardest to keep up training tips at home, although he gets so over excited that he tends to forget all he has learnt and just gets very, very silly!
Can someone either give me some tips or even simply reassure me that it really is quite common for labs to be terrors as pups.....
I am pulling my hair out at his naughtiness!

Hi i have 2 Labs both 9mths (sisters), and yes they are hard work, it my case one is harder (choccy called fudge), the black one (cracker), i have to say has seen the trouble that her sister gets into and has hopefully decided it just ain't worth the grief and is pretty good, i have been lurking on these boards and just reading what others have to say, and it has helped me no end i can tell you, you are not on your own, and have sympathy for me as i have double the trouble, (worth it i might add), don't despair it will be worth it all in the long run :)

Please keep up with the training classes :) It will be worth it in the end. Find different classes if you can, if the trainers won't help - a good trainer will never give up (unless the owner really isn't trying :( ). My older rescue dog wouldn't do a 'down' at classes without barking and making a fuss for a very long time - but the joy when he finally did it was worth all the effort :) :)

Daisy

Lab puppies can be crazy -- I know, I got mine when he was two months old. Get bitter apple spray to prevent him from chewing (they hate the taste, but it's very safe). Don't give him treats until he calms down, and make him sit or lay down for EVERYTHING. Before giving him water or food or toys, or even opening doors, make him sit quietly for at least three seconds (and build up). Two long walks may not always be enough. Labs love to run off lead -- is there a dog park you can take him to where he can run around a lot? Old saying: a tired dog is a good dog (most of the time). They also love swimming which is great for them and tires them out. But really try to make him sit for everything you give him, whether its throwing a ball or giving him a bone. After a while, they'll just start to sit while they wait.

Oh yes, and try to find a better trainer! Labs are so smart -- they just need a lot of training!

Hi Rachel - you have a very normal sounding labrador there. They can be crazy. Stick with the training though - they are usually very easily trained and as they are so greedy they will usually do anything for a treat. Make him sit and wait before sending him to fetch anything so he learns a few manners. It will be hard but you'll get there in the end. My younger one is 20 months now and still chews things occasionally. Yesterday I found her with a butter wrapper on the floor. She was cleverly holding the wrapper flat with her paws and licking the remaining bit of butter from it. She had jumped up and stolen it from the work-top. Like the advice above, look around for a different trainer or class. You may find a gundog training club which will really make your puppy use its brain. Good luck and have fun :) ;)
Lorna

Yes you have normal Lab puppy ! Keep with it you will see the improvement ! Some Labs are easy and some take a lot of hard work ! They are all different ! I have had four and all have had completely different characters and have all been different when training ! I have however learned so much from them all and wouldn't be without any of them ! The have brought so much fun and love into my life and would have another four tomorrow if we had the room !!

Lucy

:D

Hello Rachel,

Rest assured that labs are lunatics and are very clever as playing the devil....
I agree with the above posts that you must start making the pup sit before you give him anything...it will be hard but don't give in. Push his bum down and keep repeating it...many times over again and again while saying 'sit'. Give a dog biscuit or whatever treat whenever he does this...then you can begin to ask him to do it and he should pick up what is expected of him...

My lab is mad too though...over the weekend he pulled my clean washing off the line and dragged it around the garden...:) and he loves to pick up mats and rearrange them around the house...he gets completely hyper and runs around in circles and is generally a real handful at times...but he knows the basics of what I expect of him and when to sit etc...give it a go with the sit thing which will be a big start...

Try to stay calm and focussed. Labs can be a bit eccentric if they don't recognise whose boss.
As for the chewing...I've donated plenty of old items to my lab to chew and he loves the odd bone...oh and bitter apple doesn't work on mine so don't worry if it all goes pearshaped at times...

Good luck...
CLaire

As everyone elses has said, you have a normal Labrador.

I have 3. The eldest, now 6, ate the hall carpet, the bannistairs, the telephone cables, the dishwasher wiring, shoes books, the heated screen wires in my car, you name it. The youngest one (10 months) eats anything not fastened down - childrens toys, books, "tupperware" etc, a favourite is loo roll and tissues. The one in the middle however only ever ate used babies nappies!!!!! nothing else, just nappies.

Keep on training, and as someone else said, try to find another source of excercise. My eldest didn't stop chewing until he started working. They will settle to click n treat training eventually, particularly if they like food - it works quickly but it is not instant behaviour it needs work. Labs are bright they figure it out.

How about a nice big marrow bone, or a Kong stuffed with yummies when you are out?

Where abouts in the country are you, maybe someone can suggest alternative trainers.

http://www.helpalabrador.co.uk

If anybody wants to get valuble information on Labs then go to this site and go into the forum as there is on hand advice on the different problems you may come across when it comes to the wonderful breed of Labradors ! John has been putting together a thread where he has written some extremely useful articles on training so go and have a look !! :D

Lucy

Mel can I have some help with the link !!! I can never get it right !!!

the link from the above post

HTH,

Fiona
x x x

Lucy - you forgot the http bit :)

Thank Fiona ! I always miss off the http ! :-)

Lucy
xx

Thank you everyone for putting my mind at rest! He is normal after all! Thanks for the advise - i'm certainly going to try to get a different trainer and stick at it. I also bought "The Dog Listener" and I am already seeing results.

He's still being a toe-rag and i expect he will continue to do so for a long while! I was walking him on the beach (i live in Hastings,East Sussex if anyone has any trainer recommendations) and we were having a lovely time as usual until he found the carcass of a dead seagull - Urgh! However unlike many dogs who bring their findings to their owners, mine likes to come to around three meters away from me and wag his tail excitedly and then run away with his forbidden goodies (he does this with socks and underwear at home too!)! It's like he knew that i would take it away from him! Even treats couldn't persuade him to drop it and this performance carried on for ages!

By the way - Sniff loves used babies nappies too!

Thanks everyone! So my Sniff is a normal little fella after all! Talk about hard work though!

Things seem to be improving already - I have got myself "The Dog Listener" and alot of what she says makes alot of sense - but is hard to stick to..... I will keep it up though!

Stick with it Rachel, its absolutely worth it..
It can take a very long time to see any results though if not everyone in your household is participating :(
My GSD must be the most stubborn dog on the planet, but even she is calming down a bit now on Jan's methods :)

Keep with it. I nearly pulled my hair out ten times a day with our lab puppy, but now that he's 1 he's SO MUCH better. He's still a nut case and finds ways to make me crazy, but you'll be amazed at how much better they are when they hit 8 or 9 months. Of course, this is as long as you keep up with the training. Good luck!

May I also suggest a site http://www.justlabradors.com
They are a good bunch of people too with the Labrador at heart.

Uhm, i kinda disagree with the majority of you. It sounds to me like your pup is frustrated.... Walked, ran much?

I have owned my yellow lab pup since 8 weeks old (shes now 11months) Although mad, fun, and full of beans, shes only been destructive twice. On both occasions it was when we were unable to walk her on the day before.

To really love your lab you need to lead the lab. It sounds 'bitchy' in human terms, but you need to show that pup whos boss WITHOUT any formal of harsh grabbing hitting or other abuse. Labs respect 'respect' if your dog is out of line, a good jab with your two fingers (calmly but quickly) gets the attention. you must be more arrogant than your pup.. example.. the 1st walk with my lab (daisy) took 2 hours to do 1000meters... thats because i let her work out for her self why we aren't moving forward. simple she walked in front of me. (in other words, she thinks shes walking me) over a few weeks she stopped trying it on. now, lead or no lead, she walks behind, or beside me (unless i say.. "GO SNIF") never letting your dog be infront (Pulling or otherwise) and NEVER let him or her cross over the front of you.

it's all about being a leader,

1st thing you need to do is set strict boundary's and follow through every single time. eg, if you want to sit down on the sofa, regardless of there being room else where, u tell your pup to get 'OFF' and follow though with a poke to show you mean it. Then sit in 'his  / her' spot.  it sounds like you are being mean, but go out of your way to 'take the area' your pup is using. never feed your dog before you eat (in dog world, leaders eat 1st)

Talk with your eyes, never pull you dog back (it encourages them to pull more) get your dogs attention when correcting, wait if you need to, look into the eyes, dogs read your expressions and vibes better than commands, screaming, poking or shouting.

Also make your pup submit, each day for months 3 times a day i made my dog submit to me, especially in front of other dogs, submitting is getting them to relax on there SIDE, remember the dog reads your vibe, if you are hell bent enraged to get him or her to submit, the dog will go mad. Be cool, calm and collected and preplanned, not to try and take out your frustration because of something else.

Cesar Milan has some really good videos online to help with particular issues, like, walking, barking, destroying everything, each time it's always the owners fault... usually because the dog is 'leading the pack' when he or she doesn't actually want to.... sorry but true, look at your selves and what things you do wrong, fact, labs love to please you, let them but lead them.

i hope this helps, im a 1st time dog owner but read and watched lots of info before getting a dog, so from day 1, i've been strict, honestly she loves it looking to me before she goes to see the other dog near by... her looking at me, is asking for approval to go.. that's the communication you need to focus on, eye contact.

- tip, to encourage eye contact, get some little treats, let it be known you have treats but do not give him /her one.. Say his/her name (once only) wait for the eye contact and immediately reward with the treat... repeat  a few times each day (only a few mins at a time MAX), your dog will learn his/her name and that when you say his or her name, you want his/her attention immediately. Do not ever say his/her name when she/he has done something bad. Name is for attention, not to be confused with AHHH GOD SAKE DAISY - Negative.. Use a word to describe what hes doing... EG.. NO BITING... DEAD = Drop it.. punishment with calm eye contact and calmly bring him/her back to the scene of the 'crime' ... when the dogs head bow's, he / she understands

First of all, you have replied to a ten year old thread, so the pup in question will now be an oldie. :) Secondly, humans are never pack leaders over dogs, that's been scientifically proven, and I'm happy to say the great majority of us on this forum recognises Cesar Millan for the cruel bully he is, and would never, ever recommend him or his "training" methods which isn't training at all but using fear and punishment.

>Also make your pup submit, each day for months 3 times a day i made my dog submit to me, especially in front of other dogs, submitting is getting them to relax on there SIDE

What a hideous suggestion.

>Cesar Milan has some really good videos online

Ah, that explains why you would recommend bullying tactics.

For heavens sake, we're never going to make progress with people still advocating this rubbish! :-(

"humans are never pack leaders over dogs, that's been scientifically proven" What a bold claim, Seems a cherry picked statement from a much larger complex document. I think you've extracted a single sentence and ignored all the other information countering this.
Uhm... Cesar's #1 rule, never punish a dog? #2 rule, don't make your dog live in fear... uhm,... perhaps you are misinformed... or simply cast judgement over things you don't actually know a great deal about...
Clearly you've not watched any of his videos, dogs suffering from abuse cling to him.
So because you claim it's the "majority" (although I disagree) it means you're right? not so, long ago the "majority" said the world was flat and space doesn't exist.... Whom am I to argue your clearly defined and certainly supported your statement well. Keeping in mind that he's backed, funded, supported and recommended by most major animal charity's...
Facts are, my pup is happy, respectful, loyal and well trained, not once was she punished and as she has no fear or nervous energy... I'd say she's living proof his methods do not introduce fear or punishment... Does your dog bark? Postman, milkman, someone at the door? Rushing forward to greet them? Wine, bark for you to throw the ball.. Mine simply runs to the door and looks at me, waiting respectfully.
Re-read the posts.. Seems me following the respectful training means I had no issues.. seems everyone else has been  "tearing their hair out"
The statements your peddling aren't true, Cesar's methods clearly define no punishment or fear tactics.. check for yourself.. (check my post... pre your objections, do I mention punishment...no..., only use... relaxing techniques, calm energy, no pulling back, or shouting, only a poke to gain attention.. )
-  Fact, my removing the 'fear to protect' encouraging  submission you are showing it's ok to relax around other dogs... 11months old... meeting hundreds of dogs... mines yet to growl.. bark or take a defensive stance... even after other dogs have been beyond aggressive. And tried to attack, she simply steps back, sit as the aggressive dog went mad, moments later the aggressive dog relaxed after not getting a reaction, they made friends... Quote from that owner.. "amazing he can't be allowed around other dogs, it's embarrassing, he's going to hurt her" I said don't worry... they made friends..
Yea.. really sounds like my pup is living in fear and punishment... sounds more like u apply human 'feelings' to dogs, they aren't the same... keep those blinkers on

Cesar's methods clearly define no punishment or fear tactics.. check for yourself.

We have done, and we've seen prong collars, choke chains, even electric shock collars being used. Alpha rolls. The list goes on. This is why the RSPCA, PDSA, Wood Green etc etc are asking people to not use his methods. Unfortunately the man cannot read dogs at all, which anyone with any dog knowledge at all can spot from watching any episodes of the TV series.

You all have failed arguments.. simply objecting without any reason.. Clearly the idea is all around this idea that cesar encourages punishement, bullying and living in fear... these are the rules he set as what not to do...

Seems more like you read to much about what members write about cesar... and don't watch the videos for your self....

do yourself a favour, watch the episodes for your self... don't read what members write... seems the truth is twisted... (btw, i've checked and http://www.justlabradors.com/ use alot of the same methods! ).. anyway,

until episodes are watched, this argument is pointless and wont go anywhere, just bare in mind, i have a very balanced pup, u all didn't.../ dont

just bare in mind, i have a very balanced pup, u all didn't.../ dont

Are you still replying to the TEN YEAR old thread, with mainly people in it that no longer are members?

You have ONE puppy?  Labrador? That's nice and easy. I have 20 dogs, 9 of which are Malinois. I can give you dozens of links to articles, studies and videos all proving how wrong you are, but as I now am strongly suspecting this nothing but a troll, I will not continue to feed.

uhm.. you really need to get your facts right.... he doesn't allow choke chains.... prong collars and once again, you take a quote from a much larger article...

"Mr Millan said he did not endorse the use of electric collars but did believe they were useful in 'very extreme cases' where the dog was in danger of being put down if its behaviour did not improve. "

There are no choke chains, cesar milan is openly against these. he does however allow use of a loop lead... the same found in most stores.... also he doesn't allow pulling, meaning the loop lead cannot hurt anyway.....

also, you all ignore the thousands / tens of thousands of dogs hes saved...

you're doing this

i very nearly won a million pounds today! but i forgot to buy a ticket

= "won a million pounds today"

your only getting half the story...

- "Unfortunately the man cannot read dogs at all, which anyone with any dog knowledge at all can spot from watching any episodes of the TV series. " = uhm, even the rspca admit he works well with dogs understanding there issues.." ...Final time... you take a tiny quote and blow it upp...

ill leave this forum.. it's full of close minded fools

prehaps you should learn to care for 1 before you get 20.. thats unfair on the dogs

stonkin, on the basis of owning 1 dog for 11 months, I really don't think you're in a position to give advice.

You might also want to read some of this:

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2004/Debunking.pdf

Well an expert after owning one Lab for a few months !

I would suggest that you learn alot more before spouting off quite frankly dangerous advice to people.

Your pup sounds like she has been bullied into submission rather than nurtured into being a well rounded socialised dog who is comfortable being a Lab rather than sounds like a machine who is not able to show some of the natural traits of a Labrador.

I think I am able to quantify something about this subject having owned and trained Labradors for the last 25 years.

Wow Stonkin, your ideas are sooooo outdated and the best way to get bitten/ruin the relationship with your dog/promote aggression or a shut-down dog. Watch the Milan vids with the sound turned off, look at what he is doing and the dog's body reactions/body language. Horrible, horrible little man.

prehaps you should learn to care for 1 before you get 20.. thats unfair on the dogs

ROFL!!!!!! My dog experience comes from 32 years of owning dogs and also working with them in the past, but above all living with them as family members.

Ah yes, Cesar Milan and labradors ............see this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO1LoZTmLOY

This shows up his method of training!

I've been owned by labradors for 50 years.   I've bred them and trained them - and never, ever have I trained in this manner - the Barbara Woodhouse way of training might have been in use in the earlier days (anyone else remember her "walkies"!) - and now I'm 70, I still have 3 labradors.

Yes, they are champion chewers as pups/adolescents, but they settle down eventually - although our old lady Purdey could never shake off the allure of new shoes ...they HAD to have the backs of the heels chewed!  But eventually, she trained us to put all shoes away!

I think our new "expert" has to undergo an awful lot of training ......but how is one going to overcome the arrogance, I wonder......

I should also add that my 3 labs (aged from 3 to 8) are fed at the same time, and they know the routine WITHOUT going down CM's route.   Routine is this:  at 6.pm, I go to utility room......dogs get up from wherever they are lounging and trot through to utility room doorway.    I fill 3 bowls, bring into kitchen - this is what happens next.....
1.   Odin (youngest) sits (without being told).   His bowl goes down.   He remains sitting.

2.   Eydis (next) sits - again without being told.   Her bowl goes down. They are told "yes"  Her head goes down - Odin's head goes down - start eating.

3.  Freya (oldest) sits and shuffles to doorway.  Her bowl goes down - she is told yes - and she starts eating.

I could at any time pick up a bowl without a whimper - but there again - why should I?   To prove that I can?   What rubbish and rot!   I think I would be pretty peed off if I was eating something I enjoyed and someone came along and took it away - just because they could!

Training on these skewed ideas is just idiotic!

Picking up bowls whilst dogs are eating encourages resource guarding because the dog comes to see you as a threat, taking its food away.

>Cesar's methods clearly define no punishment or fear tactics.

Shame he doesn't follow them then.

Video 1

Video 2 Cesar's commentary bears no relation to what the dog is actually 'conveying'.

I dare say if he lived in the UK, and there was video evidence like this, he could be taken to court by the RSPCA.

The worst videos, of course, have all been removed as he doesn't want them seen and COMMENTED on.

Does he come from strong working lines?  Have you spoken to the breeder - perhaps they can help you if they're not too far away.

Ells-Bells the question about the Labrador pup isn't relevant any more as it was asked ten years ago. :)

Would love the Original poster to come back and tell us how they got on, and news of their lovely mature dog.

>uhm, even the rspca admit he works well with dogs understanding there issues.

The RSPCA are among the many professional canine welfare organisations who are completely anti his treatment of dogs.

> The RSPCA are among the many professional canine welfare organisations who are completely anti his treatment of dogs.

Brainwashed troll.... Not for the first time, I'll say that CM fans are like a kind of cult.
But that is telling in itself, indicates dog owners are wanting and needing some kind of guru... Just not HIM! He may have saved a million dogs, but there will be ten million living miserable lives due to his 'teachings'.

stonkin - you really don't know much about dogs do you?  Perhaps you're not from the UK (where Champdogs is based.)   But we have the Animal Welfare Act over here.  We can be prosecuted for being cruel to our pets.  And we know that dogs don't think we are alpha males.

How totally out of date this way of thinking is.  Yawn, yawn.

The RSPCA had a statement read out on the Alan Titchmarsh show:
In a statement read out on air, the RSPCA said: 'Adverse training techniques which have been seen to be used by Cesar Millan can cause pain and fear for dogs and may worsen their behavioural problems.

'The RSPCA believes that using such techniques is unacceptable, nor are they necessary to change dog behaviour for the better when other dog trainers use reward-based methods to train dogs very effectively.'

> The RSPCA had a statement read out on the Alan Titchmarsh show:

Alan Titchmarsh zoomed to the top of my estimation after that show. For a guy who mostly does plants, he has some very sound principles, and is not afraid to call a spade a spade (forgive the pun). Anyone who thinks CM is the bees knees should watch that interview.

Ooops - didn't realise the post was so old!

> 11months old... meeting hundreds of dogs... mines yet to growl.. bark or take a defensive stance... even after other dogs have been beyond aggressive. And tried to attack, she simply steps back, sit as the aggressive dog went mad, moments later the aggressive dog relaxed after not getting a reaction, they made friends...

At 11 months old, your lab is not even nearly mature, she has more developmental stages to go through yet. Please do some research on canine beahviour before she gets closer to adulhood, find out how to properly read her and understand her. At the very least find out about what calming signals are and how they can help tell you what your dog is feeling. When you can fully understand her, you'll see why people think so poorly of Cesar.

I wonder if this thread was picked up by the CM fan just as the man starts another (yawn) tour ..............

And a new television series and a book pending. Horrible little man.....

I love it when someone with next to zero dog experience tries to tell everyone else they know nothing!  It's astounding, it really is.

stonkin - almost everyone on this forum has far more experience than you.  Far more knowledge.  And certainly far more sense!  A number of us, myself included, are also behaviourists.  We are out there on the "front line", so to speak, actively working with dogs with issues, so our experience is even more specific to this particular debate.

I work with positive reinforcement; I have my clients manage their dogs and learn how to manage situations both in the home and out and about so that "bad" behaviours don't happen; and if they do, I teach the owners how to respond appropriately, to minimise stress on both sides and reduce the chance of any aggression.  I also work with them to teach the dogs that they do not need to be aggressive, in a calm, totally non-confrontational way.  And I do it all positively, with no dominance/pack leader claptrap whatsoever.  I don't need to poke dogs to get results, or "tap" them with my feet; my training is almost entirely hands-off, except for calming touches and having the dog on a lead.

And you know what?  It works.  And having seen and dealt with the fallout of CM's methods, and others like him, it works a heck of a lot better, and most importantly it works for the long term.  His methods don't - they are short-term, quick fixes.  A spectacle for the viewers.

If you want a TV idol to learn from - watch Victoria Stillwell, especially the US shows where she's learned the truth about "dominance" and has updated her methods accordingly.  That's the difference between her and all the other positive trainers and CM - they are constantly learning, improving and updating their methods, not just applying the same old used rhetoric to each dog as if it were just another robot.  And most importantly - our methods are based in research and science, not a completely flawed adaptation of a completely flawed, and thoroughly debunked, idea (dominance theory - google it, you'll find a myriad of information about why it is a complete fallacy).

I have three Labradors and a flatcoat, I do think you are setting yourself up for a difficult job by walking him such a lot, training wears dogs out much more than simply walking, my lot get one long free run per day during the winter dark nights, and two when it's lighter, they learn to adjust because they also receive training to help keep them busy. 

I also have a dog room where they are crated when I am out for any length of time, they are always rewarded for going to 'bed', and are straight in there.  The neighbours don't report any noise nuisance, they don't mind the occasional bark in reaction to a noise outside, in fact they're quite pleased they've got four fairly quiet large dogs that will alert people if there's a strange noise. 

Labradors are very mouthy, but like any breed, you just have to be persistent.  A slight difference is that any touch they get is a success, so if you have to end up pushing them down, because of their sort of temperament, they just love the contact.  You need to learn how to get them to want to work with you for a *reward*, I have found (and I'm sure this will be controversial) that generally speaking, show bred Labradors are less biddable than working bred Labradors, and so in some respects are a more difficult animal to train, a bit like being given the slowest ploddiest horse down at the riding stables, where, if you can do anything with that, then you are achieving some level of success as a rider, the same goes for less biddable dogs, if you can learn to motivate them, then your handling skills are improving. 

I don't generally do anything with my pups until they're about 6 months old at least, except for recall and the stop whistle, or sit.  If I can get that, then I have the control I need, and then I start putting in heel work and building in steadiness, retrieving consistently to hand etc, etc.  I have found by working with their natural ability, they are much more responsive, so if you can get a suggestion for a good gundog club near to you, then I would seriously consider going there, most of the training at lower levels is on dummies, so you wouldn't have to see anything dead, just in case you're squeamish. 

My youngest pup is just approaching a year old, her mother had me tearing her hair out she was so naughty, but then went on to do very well at gundog training, and has been out picking up.  My other Labrador girl was a dream as a pup, she had her moments but she is one of the steadiest and nicest characters you would hope to come across.  All three of mine are chocolate, and I regularly still hear the myth about chocolate Labs being nutty, which is really a load of nonsense. The truth is simply what is bred for, if you breed for a dog that is biddable, then you get one, if you don't, then you won't, but it's what you can make of the character you have as well.  I like a bit of *fire* in there, I like to use that when I'm training, and, btw, I never *dominate* my dogs, push them down, or give CM the privilege of appearing on my television, when I work with my dogs it's a partnership, just one that I'm in charge of.