We have adopted a lurcher from a rescue home about 6 weeks ago and I was reluctant at first to take him in as we both work full time. Louis goes out for an hour each morning at 7am and has a good run and play with my other half then we go out to work at 8.30am. I live close to work so I then go home at 12 for an hour to play/let out for toilet breaks etc. My other half is a teacher so then he gets home at 4pm and when I get in at 5pm - we are off out for an hour to two every evening and he has also started training classes every week. He seems happy and content and mainly sleeps or chews on bones etc. I'd hope that he is happy and to be honest it must be better than being crammed in a kennel everyday with only 1 walk. I'd hope other people agree

I think that most people are against people getting a puppy when working full-time :) An adult dog often will sleep happily as long as he/she gets reasonable exercise morning/lunch and evening :) :) We too had a resucue dog and, although I was only working two/three days a week at the time, he settled very well to being left :)

Daisy

Must depend on the dog, 3 of mine follow me everywhere when I'm home, 3 dogs in the loo with me, 3 dogs lying under the ironing board trying to get the clean clothes even hairer, 3 dogs covering the kitchen floor when I'm trying to clean in there etc - the 4th, Mr Beastly, lies on the sofa and allows me to pat him on the way past. Occasionally he will deign to follow me if I'm going out into the garden, or into the gerbils room (he's convinced I'm just fattening them up as tasty treats for him):rolleyes:

> Mr Beastly

LOL LOL :D :D :D

Daisy

Same here Chaumsong.  Go to the toilet they follow, have a bath they have their heads hanging over the side, do the ironing they lay down directly behind me.  I have nearly fallen over them numerous times. Start to cook tea again they lay down behind me.

They are really like shadows.

They only settle when we do.

I have three shadows as well, funny how you can trip and fall over a shadow isn't it? especially a Bernese sized one!!
I'm sat "At" the desk now with my three...sat "At " the desk is a lie....I'm sat at arms reach away from it as they are ..up close and personal...
I would think as long as you don't leave him for more than 3/4 hrs at a time and spend lots of time before and after entertaining him he will settle to a routine. Dogs are creatures of habit and they will adapt. Most of us who breed would maybe not sell you a pup under those circumstances but....hey a good home and lots of love may not always be available so make sure you give lots of love and attention and remamber it's the best home he may get

I am hoping that in five years time (I know it's a long time but I have a few debts to pay off first) I will more than likely still be working full time but I have promised myself a chocolate labrador puppy and he will be a well loved dog and I am planning, at this early stage, to put money aside and have already decided to give him two walks a day before and after work.  Luckily my children will be 18 and 13 so they will be less reliant on me so I can give more time with a dog.

I am fed up with people saying you can't have a dog when you work full time as there are many dog lovers out there who would never have a dog and as long as it is well loved and looked after I don't see a problem.

I wonder if a crate is worth considering at first.

I would be a first time dog owner so any advice would be fab!  I have just joined Champdogs today.

BW

Rachel

Hi, and welcome! You're very sensibly making plans well in advance, and for that you're to be commended because many people get a dog on a whim!

Your dog will also need a walk in the middle of the day (can you last the whole day without needing the toilet? I certainly can't so I wouldn't expect a dog to either) once he's grown up and fully housetrained. Before then he'll need to be taken out to the garden to toilet train him every hour or two during the day, so someone will need to be home with him for several months to do this.

Everything you say is true but to me a dog needs company, they are not solitary animals so why would an animal lover force an animal to live in a way that is bound to cause stress. Now if someone is around to care and keep company even though the owner is at work no problem, also once a dog is trained and adult the company of another dog should solve the problem but my rule is 4 hours on their own max and not left as a regular thing.

Please not a crate, I may be in the minority but too many people use them to cage a dog because they can't be bothered to spend the required time to housetrain them. The thought of a dog shut in a cage all day, lonely and possibly having to soil in there is awful. As a temporary measure for it's own safety or at night, as it's comfy bed I can understand but awake and desperate to move around breaks my heart.

> As a temporary measure for it's own safety or at night, as it's comfy bed I can understand but awake and desperate to move around breaks my heart.

Ditto.

A puppy will need to go out every 30 mins when it is very young.  I personally think it is very wrong to get a puppy if you are working full-time - they need almost constant supervision and needs to bond with you.  In the US people do confine pups to a crate whilst they go out to work - but I am very much against this - it's very unkind and the dog just won't be learning what it needs to do.

If you must have a dog get an older rescue dog like the OP did.

(By the way - I am a big fan of crates - but not where they are abused.  I expect my pup to sleep in a crate and to go into its crate when I go upstairs or out briefly - I don't think even an adult dog should be confined to even a large crate for more than 4 hours in a day)

Remember a pup should only have about 5 mins walk for every month of life - so taking your pup for a walk before & after work is just not appropriate - at first he/she will only need 10 mins in total a day - ideally combined with 3 or 4 brief training sessions during the day in addition to supervision.  Please think again - a labrador puppy won't thrive in this situation.  And I don't think a decent breeder would sell you a pup - which means you would need to get one from a not so good breeder.

> Everything you say is true but to me a dog needs company, they are not solitary animals so why would an animal lover force an animal to live in a way that is bound to cause stress.

Certainly it stresses some out but not all - many dogs live perfectly happily as solo dogs with full time workers.  It takes work - the time the owner has with the dog must be made the most of, and care must be taken to tire the dog out before they go out to work but it can be done.

Most settled, well adjusted dogs will simply go to sleep once their owner has gone, assuming they've been sufficiently entertained beforehand.  My dogs do, as soon as I go out, and three of them I had back when I was working full time - they were absolutely fine with it.  My then-housemate told me a couple of times that once I was out they just slept and were happy.

A puppy is different of course, they do need a lot more but once adult, if he or she is gotten used to being left properly (so it isn't a sudden jump from full time company to full time work), they can be fine.

If a labrador was not suitable due to me working full time then I would consider a staffie/staffie cross as my sister has a staffie cross and he is so cute but she only works three days a week.

What would be the best dog breed for my situation?  I'm afraid I don't like toy dogs and would not consider them or very large dogs. 

I appreciate any advice.

I would most definitely be a considerate dog owner but am not lucky enough to be able to afford to work part time so I have no option here but it shouldn't stop me being able to have a dog in the future.

I would be suggesting a greyhound to be honest

>If a labrador was not suitable due to me working full time then I would consider a staffie/staffie cross
>What would be the best dog breed for my situation?

Unfortunately all dogs, whatever their breed or size, need toileting opportunities through the day, just as all people do. Unless you can be comfortable without using the toilet the whole day at work from the time you leave in the morning till when you get home at night, it's unfair to expect a dog to do so.

An option to look at is a dog walker.

Mine are not often in all day but when they are I put paper down and they use it.  I will accept this, it does not seem to bother them nor does it affect their house training generally.  I do make sure they get a good walk before and after, and they do a bit of brain training with me in the morning and evening too.

I have 3 all diferent breeds. Mine arnt left on their own very often as I live in a very busy household so there is plenty going on a nd people coming and going. When i did work full time and indeed when i am at work mine have adog walker who takes them out for a couple of hours to break up the day.
When I am in I find each personality behaves differently it may also be slightly breed specific. My adult gsd is happy to mooch around as and when he likes or sleeps. My 2 year old flat coat will sleep for chunks of the day but otherwise is everywhere i am helping or watching and giving advice !!! my pomx sleeps most of the time with one eye on me if I am in the same room. Come the evening they happily play together usually right infront of the tv lol

If you have a really SECURE back garden (from both thieves and escaping), how about having a dog door? We try not to leave ours more than a few hours, but 2 or 3 times in the year it might be longer, and at least they can take themselves out for a wee if they need to go.

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">If a labrador was not suitable due to me working full time then I would consider a staffie/staffie cross as my sister has a staffie cross and he is so cute but she only works three days a week.<br /><br />What would be the best dog breed for my situation?  I'm afraid I don't like toy dogs and would not consider them or very large dogs.  <br /><br />I appreciate any advice.<br /><br />I would most definitely be a considerate dog owner but am not lucky enough to be able to afford to work part time so I have no option here but it shouldn't stop me being able to have a dog in the future

I'm sorry but I would suggest no dog at all, other than perhaps a very elderly dog in need of a home, and even then you would need to ensure someone could go in the middle of the day to spend some time with it and take it out. A full working day of 8 hours, plus travelling time, and perhaps stopping off for shopping on the way home/ doctor's appointments etc. etc. meaning the dog is left from anything upwards of 9 hours a day is simply not fair on any dog. Dogs are pack animals who need company. Sleeping to pass the time out of boredom is no way for them to live their lives.

Loving a pet just isn't enough, you need to give it what it requires to have a happy and comfortable life. Full - time work is one thing but there will also be times when you want evenings out etc and a day on its own then turns into a quick walk before leaving it again. If you really must have one then you do need to arrange for it to have the chance to go out during the day so a dog walker is one option. A young active dog, alone all day is simply wrong.

I'd actually say a staffie is less suitable than a lab - depends on the lab of course but the staffies I've met and the ones I know of are all quite giddy, energetic little things!

But if you can arrange someone to break up the day for the dog and provide toilet breaks, then it can be done with either and with many other breeds.

One of my training clients has a springer/lab, working lines on both sides, in no way the right sort of dog for a full time worker (hindsight is a wonderful thing in this case, she'd not get him if she could do it over again, classic case of naiev owner not doing research) BUT she has the local dog walker go in and take him out for a couple of hours during the day and he is very well adjusted and happy.  It can be done, with the right prep.

I work nights so my labs are never left alone,I take them out when I get home,then they get in bed with me.I would never get a dog if I worked all day,but I do know a chap who walks his labs first thing in the morning and after work at night,it does work for him and his dogs however,I would be afraid of leaving a puppy on its own for long periods because of all sorts of dangers and yes I am another who would never crate a dog,unless for travelling ect.

Sheila

> I'm sorry but I would suggest no dog at all, other than perhaps a very elderly dog in need of a home,

I'd say that a very elderly dog needs as much time/attention as a puppy would. I would not leave my last old dog for more than 2hrs, incase he needed to go out for a wee - he couldn't hold on as long in his old age as when he was younger and he would get very upset if he couldn't get out to the garden for the loo.

Long gone are the days where hubby went to work and left wifey at home cleaning and cooking the tea. True, there are some households who work shifts so there is almost always someone at home, but these are in the minority.

If only people who didn't work full time or left their dog more than 4 hours had a dog, there would be a lot more in rescue.

I'm not advocating that people who go to work at 6 am and return at 6 pm have a puppy, but I think we have to accept that most people work and are out of the house longer than 4 hours.

I'd be suspicious if puppy buyers told me they didn't work at all, I'd sooner they tell me the truth so I could help them work out alternative arrangements, I'm convinced that some enquirers say they don't work when in fact they do, and in truth how are we as breeders ever going to know different?

If only people who didn't work full time or left their dog more than 4 hours had a dog, there would be a lot more in rescue.

Not it they gave proper consideration to if they could manage and give a dog the required care before they went and bought one - wonder how many of those in rescue are there because the owners worked and did not have the time to train and then left the dog all day on its own to stare at the wall or be destructive or dirty or both.

Nova, there would be many litters born where breeders couldn't home puppies and they would have to put them in rescue.

Show breeders and breeders from other areas of the dog fraternity would still keep breeding because they want a puppy bred by themselves to carry on with their hobby. I'm not knocking that at all, what I am saying is that most people nowadays go out to work and probably don't tell the truth about it when searching for a puppy.

> wonder how many of those in rescue are there because the owners worked and did not have the time to train and then left the dog all day on its own to stare at the wall or be destructive or dirty or both.

That is certainly the main reason our breed come up for re-homing, generally from commercially motivated BYB breeders and commercial kennels whose vetting consists of the person having the money to buy.

How can a breeder vet for full time workers?

I'd be very interested in how to do that.....

The vetting should be about what care arrangements will be in place for the dog or puppy, including providing it with companionship.

Certainly many of my puppy owners have alternating shifts, one partner at home or part time working, and others have shared the care with retired parents, and others pay for daycare, dog walkers.

As a responsible breeder, who keeps her dogs as family in an ordinary home, it is entirely in my own best interest to ensure that my pups are homed so they are least likely to come back to me for re-homing, especially with issues caused by lack of companionship and training.

Of course the kind of 'Puppy Producers' whose interest in the puppy does not go beyond point of sale, can happily sell to totally unsuitable situations.

Yes, times are different now and in lots of cases both people in a house may work full time. Still not right to have a dog that they can't give time to. I'm afraid its a case of not being able to have everything you want. The dogs welfare should be the priority every time.

> How can a breeder vet for full time workers?

>I'd be very interested in how to do that.....

All you can do is ask a lot of questions, Brainless makes very good suggestions.  Of course people can lie but you get a 'feel' for it after a while. Meet/speak to the new puppy owners several times, sometimes stories don't quite add up if they are not being honest with you.

Then again, people's circumstances can change so best to have a statement in your contract that says you expect the dog to be returned to you if the new owners can no longer keep it. (This is not neccessarily legally binding, but that's another issue ...)

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">I'd say that a very elderly dog needs as much time/attention as a puppy would. I would not leave my last old dog for more than 2hrs, incase he needed to go out for a wee - he couldn't hold on as long in his old age as when he was younger and he would get very upset if he couldn't get out to the garden for the loo.

<img width="20" height="10" title="Quote selected text" class="qButton" alt="Quote selected text" src="/images/mi_quote.gif" />

<a href="http://www.champdogs.co.uk/" />

Good point mastifflover. I would say no dog at all then. I was thinking of a very sedentary old dog who would sleep most of the time, and I did point out that (s)he would still need someone coming in the middle of the day, but of course old dogs often can't hold on for long. Then there is the likelihood of illness as well--old dogs need more supervision than young dogs in case they get ill-- it would be terrible to arrive home after four hours or so to find the dog had had a stroke or something just after the lunchtime dog sitter left, and had been alone all that time.
Dogs are not a right for anyone to have no matter what their lifestyle. If you don't have the time to spend you shouldn't have the dog.

The Breeder who we got our Sadie off,asked us many questions,,rang me at various times of the day and it was her that decided If we were suitable to have one of her Puppies,she said she had turned many people down in the past by what they had said to her,

Sheila

After visiting my puppy in his home and meeting his mum and older sister (tea and cake with the breeder and a long talk) she then asked to visit us to see where our pup would be living. Perfect - everybody happy. Of course this was easier because we were fairly local to her but I was more than happy for her to see our home. We'd spent a long time discussing getting a dog and waited until I was in a position to be home a lot. Ten and a half years later he's rarely been left more than a few hours, time with him is just too precious.
I think there's a line at the end of the book 'Marley and Me' that says something like 'dogs have such short lives and they spend most of it waiting for us to return home'. So true.

What does the Animal Welfare Act do?

It makes owners and keepers responsible for ensuring that the welfare needs of their animals are met.

These include the need:
*For a suitable environment (place to live)
*For a suitable diet
*To exhibit normal behaviour patterns
*To be housed with, or apart from, other animals (if applicable)
*To be protected from pain, injury, suffering and disease

Cut and pasted from the DEFRA website.

>I'd be suspicious if puppy buyers told me they didn't work at all

I don't work, my husband does, but whilst this may not be your idea of the 'norm' I'm not sure why you'd be suspicious of us?

Presumably a retired couple also may not be working...

I wouldnt expect retired people to work, it would be a bit of a contradiction in terms if they did!

We can all quote the odd situation where one partner stays at home, but they are in the minority. The luxury of staying at home for most has been lost in the modern world.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but the majority of people nowadays go to work, and if they tell puppy breeders they don't work full time there is no way a breeder can check, and with smart phones and tablets, communication can carry on all day from an office to a field. If someone really wants a puppy they will have all the right answers.

It shouldn't be a case of no full time workers, it should be, what plans do you have for daytime care?

>I'd be suspicious if puppy buyers told me they didn't work at all, I'd sooner they tell me the truth so I could help them work out alternative arrangements, I'm convinced that some enquirers say they don't work when in fact they do, and in truth how are we as breeders ever going to know different?

Wow! Don't people take the time to get to know their puppy buyers?
I invite mine down mid week, during the day and would immediately be suspicious if they can only come  weekends or after work times.
I ask a great deal of questions, visit when I can and encourage extended families to visit the puppy. You can get their life story if you ask the right things.
Anyone contradicting themselves or family members .....or those who are evasive get nothing from me.

I don't work BTW nor do many of my friends and in fact most of my recent puppy owners don't either because I chose them that way.
I can call them up during the day, visit them or arrange play dates with confidence that I will  usually get them in.

> It shouldn't be a case of no full time workers, it should be, what plans do you have for daytime care?

Quite so, and of course COMPANIONSHIP

> what I am saying is that most people nowadays go out to work and probably don't tell the truth about it when searching for a puppy.

so these people allready either:

a) Know thierselfs that taking on a dog when one is out of the house full time is not a very good idea, or
b) know that a good breeder would not let a puppy go to a home where it would on it's own full time, or
c) both of the above.

While I appreciate that there are people on this forum that work out of the home (I work full time AT home) and have a good system in place to keep thier dogs needs met, I really do not think this level of comitment is the norm. I only have to pop my head out into my garden and I can hear several different dogs barking/howling that have been left all day in thier gardens/homes while thier owners are at work full time. Oh - I must correct that, there is a Westie that is obviously only left while it's owner is out part time - it barks non-stop for 4 hours but, 'only' 3 days per week. :(

I work full time as a teacher,in my early 30s and am single but for these reasons I choose to live with my mum who is retired. She no longer wants the full responsibility of several large dogs so spends all day with my crew pottering about,gardening,reinforcing training,playing etc and I take on the exercise ,grooming, majority of training, showing, financial responsibility etc. Luckily we get on really well and I have the breed my parents had for 40 years  (though I do get looks when I say I still live with my mum and will probably never find a husband!) and we both get what we want-she wouldn't want to continue to have young large breed puppies on her own and I couldn't have dogs whilst working term time and living alone.  Though for that reason other breeders who I have bought youngsters in from would find that I couldn't visit during the week alongside my mum unless it was a school holiday.

By coincidence my last two pups have gone to family units of three generations.
Older parent who lives with son/daughter and their older grandchild.Busy homes with people at home most of the day..perfect.

Those who work full time or cant convince a concerned breeder that the puppy wont be left for hours on end ....will have hundreds of people out there to offer them a puppy...but not me.Thats only fair, it is my puppy.

michellecox83 your other half is a teacher and gets home at 4pm your lucky! My daughter is a teacher and she doesn't get home until quarter past six. Personally I don't think anyone should have a dog if they work full time, because all though your dog is getting lots of exercise what he is not getting is your time during the day, dogs can only sleep for so long and then they need something to do, if we as owners don't give it to them then they find something to do which we may not like. I have never used a crate for my dogs not even as puppies, they have learnt threw training during the day what they can and can not do. I'm surprised a rescue home let you have one of their dogs especially as you felt reluctant to take him. My 2 dogs are rescues and there was a lot we had to go threw to get them, if one of us felt reluctant they wouldn't have let us have them, so I'm wondering who this rescue is your talking about.

This is not a reply to Tricolours but a general comment.

Before taking on a dog one should remember two things,

A/ dogs are diurnal
B/ they are basically pack animals

So only being with or walking the dogs out of daylight hours is not ideal and they need company either yours, someone else or another dog.

The other thing that always makes me think, why would anyone want a dog they can only enjoy at its best when they are at home during the day, if you work days or nights and sleep days you are not going to get the best from the dog and it is not going to get the best from life.

Hi,

Me and my partner work full time but I get up early to walk,feed and train him and then on my way to work drop him at my mums who also has a dog and is around during the day. I then pick him up on my way home and walk,feed and train.

He goes to training classes every week and is fed from activity toys. He is definitely not suffering in any way and is a very well behaved boy.

Having said this we spend all evening and weekends with him and I am always conscious to keep him active (mentally and physically). It is hard work having a dog and working full time but it can be done :)

I do think I enjoy my dog at its best - we compete in obedience, go away with our dog and take him everywhere possible. I wouldn't be able to afford this if I didn't work full time. Dogs are expensive if you want to give them the best!!

I had a similar situation with my first dog - one that I actually bought rather then one my parents bought. I was living at home for the first two years of his life, so out at work during the day and around at the weekends. My mum took care of him during the day, but didn't walk him. I walked him in the morning and evening and did all the training and feeding and buying of food. Then I got married and he then spent the week with my parents and the weekends (and my parents holidays) with us. We moved house later living nearer my, in laws who adored him and he stayed more with us during the week as they could come and let him out, in fact in ended up in a bit of a fight as to who could have Sunny as he was so adored by all the family.
Although it is not ideal, it can work very well if you can make suitable arrangements so that the dog is not left all day without a break. The most difficult time is puppyhood as they need so much attention, but there are ways and means to overcome that. It seems to be working for you Becky

It is very hard and you don't get any social life as time away from work is for the dog but it's well worth it :)

You seem to have a kind of similar arrangement - definitely helps when you have lots of family and friends who love the dog as much as you too :)