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Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Aggression in my dog...Help!
- By alfiesmum [gb] Date 31.03.13 19:31 UTC
Hi Guys

Just after your thoughts and advice really?
My dog who has been castrated and is nearly 3 is showing aggression towards other dogs particularly at my other 2 at home. At the moment i'm having to keep him seperated from the others as he constantly has a go at them.
He guards his food, toys and gets jealous if we stroke the others and not him. He is top dog and the others are very wary of him. They leave him alone to eat and dont take toys of him. If they have toys or treats i have to put them seperately as he takes everything off the others. He will play with the 8 month old puppy every so often but can then really turn on her and has hurt her today drawing blood.
It's hard having to keep them seperated and i feel mean keeping them crated. Any advice on what i can do? I am increasing worried that if i dont sort this out it'll progress to aggression to humans?????

Thanks x
- By Nikita [gb] Date 31.03.13 21:08 UTC
He doesn't sound like "top dog", he sounds very insecure and defensive.  Some questions for you:

What do you do when he shows aggression, how do you respond? 
When was he castrated and how long has this issue been going on?
History of the group please - ages, genders, neuter status, how long you've had them.
Any big changes in your life recently?
What do you feed them on?
Exercise regime?
Any illness with any of them lately?  Or, has he had any big knocks or accidents at any point in his life, even in play (not necessarily just before this started, pain from long before can have an effect on behaviour, particularly aggression)?
Have you tried to do any specific training already?
Does he aggress to particular dogs outside the group or just any?

I think you'd be best getting a decent behaviourist in (no pack/dominance theory, positive reinforcement trainer only as corrections/punishment will NOT help) but we can at least have a look at the whole situation and make some suggestions in the meantime for management purposes.
- By alfiesmum [gb] Date 02.04.13 09:30 UTC
I think a behaviourist is a good idea... I just need to find a good one!

He's been like this since he was 10 months Ish, I stopped showing him and had him neutered due to personal reasons. He's not had any illnesses.

My other dogs are male neutered dog 11 yrs old and female 8 month old. The boys are settled together and I keep the bitch separate as she's a bigger more boisterous breed.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 02.04.13 11:32 UTC
As it's not a breeding thread I thinik it woudl be helpful to mention the breeds involved.
- By Nikita [gb] Date 02.04.13 15:01 UTC
Any information re. my other questions would be really useful, it always helps to get the full picture and often it's not the most obvious thing which can be causing a problem (or adding to the main cause) :-)

And one I forgot to ask - what was he like with the others before the aggression started?  Playing style, any cross words etc?  Also when did you get him neutered?

If you could tell us roughly where you are we might be able to recommend someone local to you as well - it's worth having a look on the APBC website for someone nearby but not all behaviourists are registered with them or indeed advertise anywhere (my work comes through referrals and word of mouth, for example).
- By alfiesmum [gb] Date 03.04.13 17:40 UTC
Alfie is an american cocker. hes great in so many ways and i obviously love him to bits. He does have tummy issues.. a bit like irritable bowel but is well at the moment.

My other dogs are a cavalier dog and a boxer bitch.

He's always been grumpy towards other dogs more out of fear i think but nothing has happened with a bigger dog so unsure as why it started.

He is definitely worse with my boxer bitch (8months) and will keep having a go if i'm not around. i obviously am wary now so dont leave them alone together unattended.

They are fed royal canin and tripe.

If i give them a treat he growls at his even if noone is around. I feed them seperately and train and treat them seperately although i havent always done this. Since i have been doing this things have definitely been better.
If he does have a go i tell him off and put him out of the way for a few minutes... no idea if this is the right thing to do or not!!!!

Have called the vets today about a behaviourist and am waiting on a call back. I need to crack this before my old boy isnt around anymore...i wanted my cocker and boxer to be best mates!! :(
- By Boxacrazy [gb] Date 03.04.13 17:46 UTC
Agree with Nikita here, finding a good reputable behaviourist is key.
We had a dog returned to us with behavioural issues, we took him to one class which made him worse.
However since then we have a found an excellent behaviourist/trainer who has worked with us
and we have a calmer/happier dog who although is still very much a work in progress we are all more relaxed
as a result.

This behaviourist is fully qualified,Certified Clinical Animal Behaviourist (CCAB)
Is a full member of the APBC (Association for Pet Behaviour Counsellors) and the APDT (Association of Pet Dog Trainers)
They also have a first class honours degree in Animal Behaviour Management (BA Hons), and also a master's degree with merit in Companion Animal Behaviour Counselling. They also have a pass, with distinction, an Advanced Diploma in Animal Behaviour Management; Advanced Canine / Human Interface course with the Animal Care College and Diploma in Animal Behaviour and Training from COAPE.
So they know their stuff and wished we'd found this training club & behaviourist so much earlier.
- By alfiesmum [gb] Date 03.04.13 17:48 UTC
Have replied further down but missed a few bits out...

Me and my husband split up last year but that didnt seem to make a difference really...getting my boxer was probably the catalyst if i'm honest.

Alfie gets about an hour run a day....seperately from the others. i dont walk them together although out they are absolutely fine. I just use this time to do seperate training with them.

He will growl and snap at other dogs in his space... worse on the lead than off. Hes worse with my boxer in then house than my old cavalier but will still get grumpy with the cavalier if hes in the way.

HTH x
- By alfiesmum [gb] Date 03.04.13 17:50 UTC
Where are you Boxacrazy...anywhere near yorkshire ;)

I will get this sorted as i want them all to be happy and i really feel my cocker isnt if he feels he has to guard and be angry so much.

Thank you for all your replies so far.
xx
- By Goldmali Date 03.04.13 18:04 UTC
Alfiesmum not sure where in Yorkshire you are, but if you're not too far north, do consider asking for the vet referral to be to Professor Daniel Mills at Lincoln University. You can't do better and I can highly recommend him. Huge advantage that he is both a behaviourist AND vet.
http://www.lincolnanimalbehaviourclinic.co.uk/
- By Nikita [gb] Date 03.04.13 22:26 UTC
One thing that I must say for now is do NOT tell him off.

He's already stressed and anxious; adding punishment of any kind will only pile on more stress.

You end up in a vicious circle: he is stressed/anxious about being around the others, so he has a go.  You tell him off.  Next time he's around them, he's stressed and anxious about being around them; and he's also anxious that he might be told off, so in his heightened stress, he has a go.  You tell him off.  Next time he's around them, he's expecting a telling off, and he's stressed about being around them, so he has a go....

So on and so forth.  Anticipatory stress like this is horrid for the dog - it means they are on edge long before they are even in the situation that preceded the original telling off, and it makes them umpteen times MORE likely to do it again.  It can also lead to your very presence being a source of stress, if the other dogs are around.

So, flip it.  Instead of concentrating on what he IS doing, concentrate on what he DOESN'T do.  So, every time he looks at one of the others and DOESN'T do anything, reward it (not necessarily with food as he's being guardy - a good fuss, a play, anything he finds rewarding).  Build a marker word (Good!  or Yes! - something he knows means a reward is coming) so that you can catch these moments quickly - they will happen quickly at present so you need to be, too.  And don't just mark the odd good moment - mark every single good split second that you see.  You need to start building positive associations with the other dogs (and with your presence around him and the other dogs).  It can be very effective - I once had a mini schnauzer pup in for grooming that Remy absolutely detested, with 5 minutes, a clicker and sausage bits he went from trying to have a go at her to loving and playing with her!

Now of course, this won't be the whole solution - you do need a behaviourist in, he sounds extremely stressed and you need someone to observe things first-hand.  But it will help.

I'd also maybe consider revisiting the IBS-type problem: look for anything that might be connected to that (e.g. vitamin deficiencies through poor digesition causing problems, or pain - I have IBS and it is excruciating when it flares, but in 25 years of it only two people have ever actually seen me suffering through a flare up and I am considerably less stoical than any dog!).  There's even a possibility that the others were near him in a previous bout of pain and it was associated with them - the little dog I look after during the days started her dog aggression that way, with a tummy upset once.  Definitely an advantage to seeing a veterinary behaviourist too in that respect, if that has played any part.

If your own vets do get back to you, do still check out whoever they put you on to - I have heard of rubbish behaviourists being referred to by vets (and vets themselves often have little behavioural knowledge or are very out of date so might noit recognise any problems), so best to be sure.
- By Boxacrazy [gb] Date 05.04.13 07:07 UTC
Aww, nope down south so no where near Yorkshire and my naughty 'return' is also called Alfie. :)

Nikita's advice is very good and I agree my own vet has links to a different behaviourist and when
I read their website I didn't get the right information that I'd expect or the right vibe.
I had been to a talk that a 'local-ish' behaviourist under took, their website had a wealth of information
and was welcoming and also their professional qualifications were there on their website for all to see.
After going to the talk I felt at ease and felt that a) they knew their stuff b) that I felt they were right for my Alfie
and that their methods were the right ones for Alfie. I.e. no dominance & positive reward based methods used.
Reward based isn't just 'food' but can be toys or fuss which ever your dog finds the most rewarding.
I did have to ask my own vets for referral and I was asked why this behaviourist (qualifications, training methods, training times and location were main reasons) and not the one they like working with but I stuck to my guns as it's my money and my decision on what I think is right for my dog and they did complete the required forms etc.

Although these methods do take longer I have a much more at ease, relaxed and calmer dog.
Which is so much better to see, from a dog that didn't like being touched etc - we now have a dog that is happy
to be in and be curled up with his mum or sister. Whereas before he'd growl if they touched him. He still gets a bit OTT
with them so still has 'time out' from the girls when he gets OTT. But overall we are really pleased with his progress.
The professional opinion on my Alfie is that he is a frustrated dog, not quite the right socialisation as a youngster and incorrect handling of
situations which lead to him being returned to us.

But in time we do very much hope that Alfie will be a much happier dog and one that won't look like a devil on lead walks etc.
So good behaviourists are worth their weight in gold as far as I am concerned but it's trying to sort the 'wheat from the chaff' that is the
hardest task as so many people can set themselves up as behaviourists but don't really have the knowledge and can make situations worse.

Alfie is a learning curve and has opened my eyes just how important it is to a) give puppies and adults the right socialisation/training b) if there is a problem to get proper help and quickly (the sooner the better as it's far quicker to turn them around when they are a young puppy/young adult) and c) The owners must have the commitment to their dog to want to right the issues as often these issues can be a long slog to correct and can't be corrected in one session.

Good Luck - Hope you find a good behaviourist soon :)
- By alfiesmum [gb] Date 05.04.13 21:13 UTC
Thank you for all your replies it really is helpful. Alfie seems a lot better since I've separated him from the boxer during the night and for periods when I can't supervise. There has definitely been less 'outbursts' and he's gone back to being the loving dog he was. I'm still going to get professional help but feel so much more positive!!

Thanks again x
- By Boxacrazy [gb] Date 06.04.13 07:20 UTC
That's great news to hear that your Alfie is becoming more relaxed.
Being more positive yourself will also help :)
- By Nikita [gb] Date 06.04.13 11:39 UTC
A total break apart will likely help - stress is not only cumulative (each time they're together there will be some stress and it will creep up with each exposure), but it's sticky too - it hangs around for a few days at least.  So it might be an idea to give them at least a few days of total separation, let the stress drop back down properly then start again - it'll put Alfie in a much better place to learn :-)
Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Aggression in my dog...Help!

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