Please would someone give me this valuable feedback!My dog is one year old.His breeder may want to use him as stud as a one off in about 18mths to 2 years time.Will this adversely affect his behavior/temperament,i.e.marking etc,also is one time all that is needed for him to know the scent of a bitch in heat...Many thanks!

Hi Sally! I suggest you first of all read this link because it has very useful information about the responsibilities of a stud dog owner. And yes, it's often the case that having been used once he'll always be very keen to repeat the experience, and your dog's 'pet' character might well be gone for ever.

Very interesting and confirm my fears.Thanks for this!

On the other hand some males stay gentlemen, and for some it stops them getting worked up over anything but an actual in season bitch.

The latter I have seen most often with males who have not been used until fully mature (mentally) as well as physically.

the breeder will know if the males in that line are the kind that are a pain for bitching or more laid back about it all.

I wonder who is going to pay for the required health tests if this is to be a one off? Also a bit surprised that the breeder has to ask to use someones pet, there may well be others from the line that could be used.

Was this a proviso with your breeder on you taking this male puppy, was a contract signed with regards to this or just a verbal request?

At the back of a good breeders mind is the continuation of their line, sometimes a breeder will make a request like this from a bitch or dog puppy as they can not always keep the dogs themselves due to room or in just keeping one sex.

If your breeder is breeding for lines and the good of your breed i.e a reputable breeder the line of your male pup may be very important to her, (perhaps not many males were produced from the litter/s)

Your dog may not grow up to be of the right health/temperament/or of the breed standard so may not be used anyway. If this is just a pet breeder I wouldn't even contemplate the idea but if a good breeder worth thinking about. ;-)

Some male dogs whether used at stud or not go mad for any bitches they may get a scent of and begin territory marking regardless, it is not just because they have been used at stud. Depends on the dog! And some can be used and then are not that bothered either way,  and you don't get any marking problems or issues afterwards.

Personally, I'd wait and see what personality and character your dog grows up to have and then decide with the breeder, if he is to be used your breeder should pay for all health related tests if it is just for a one off.

If no contract is signed for usage, then it is up to you and your choice entirely. :-)

I am surprised that an experienced breeder would wait so long to use a male for the first time as in my experience if not used within the first 18 months they are clueless and it's very hard to manage the matings.

I am surprised that an experienced breeder would wait so long to use a male for the first time as in my experience if not used within the first 18 months they are clueless and it's very hard to manage the matings.

Think this is breed specific. It's not at all unusual in my main breed for dogs to not be used until they are veterans. I would never consider using one as young as 18 months as you won't be able to see their true personality yet, as well as looks as they will have a lot of maturing to do and can change a fair bit.

Ditto Marianne.

Apologies,my mistake.As my dog is now 1 year,I should have said it  would be in18 months-24months time.So he would be pushing 3 years.Please continue feedback,much appreciated.

It must be breed specific because all the breeders I have asked about the age they use their males for the first time have said the same, 8-10months and then wait till they are about 18 months to use regularly.

Any health tests have been done by then although these days pups tend to have hereditary results, their temperament and personality obvious and conformation established just need to mature.

Males don't need the mental maturity to raise a litter that a bitch does.

Most breeds would have the hips done and that is not done until the dog is over 12 months so using a dog under about 14 months would not be good practice.

Some people in my breed use dogs that young but I don't approve at all. Our breed guidelines say they should be at least 2.5 years (males as well as females) and have parents 5 years old that are clear of MVD. Plus of course the MRI scanning for SM. I wouldn't have any problem with this dog being used at 3 years old, but as others have said the breeder should pay for the health tests if it is just this one off.

> Most breeds would have the hips done

That is just not the case in Toy dogs

That is just not the case in Toy dogs

Toys are only one group of seven, as I said most responsible breeders of most dogs would want to wait until the hip scores were in and the dogs were fully mature before breeding. Can't say when members of the toy group would be considered fully mature, although I have met many of under 12 months that I would not call mature - but I was giving a general answer for most dogs.

> I was giving a general answer for most dogs.

Sorry, not meaning to pick on you, but there were nearly 30,000 Toys registered last year alone, that's quite a significant number to just discount. Also there are many small Utility breeds that are not commonly hip scored. Looking at the latest summary of registrations there were about 35,000 in total last year.

HD is perceived as more of a problem in some breeds than others, quite often depending on size and weight.

The other issue here is whether delaying a first mating affects a dog's abiltity to perform.

There are still more breeds of dog that aren't toys than are, and even some breeders have their toy breeds (23 pugs, 266 CKCS, for example) hipscored.

> There are still more breeds of dog that aren't toys than are

What a nit-picking reply! Sounds like some kid in the playground!

And yes, there are a few examples of one or two toy breeds being scored. There are now 41 Pugs who have been scored according to the latest KC dog health group report, an increase of 18, and 272 Cavaliers, an increase of 6 over the year (if you took your figures from the 2011 annual report). For what it's worth, there have also been 11 Havanese and 17 Lowchens scored.

But all I'm saying is that there are still large numbers of many breeds where hip scoring is not common practice. 

And interesting, some of these breeds that are rarely hip scored have a higher mean score than my fairly large breed (Rhodesian Ridgeback, BMS 11)

>if you took your figures from the 2011 annual report

I took my figures from the BVA website. :-) It's interesting that the BMS for CKCS, at 16, and the Lowchen, at 17, are higher than that for labradors ...

As for nit-picking ... Nova did say that most breeds require hipscoring, not that all do (though that's a moot point as the results show). The fact is that there are far more breeds that should be hipscored before breeding than not, so it's fair to suggest that this is something that should be done as a general rule.

Attended a lecture on bone growth in the species canine and the lecturer was at pains to point out that no matter what the breed the bones matured at roughly the same rate and that bone growth was complete at around 18 months - when questioned on this point we were told that growth completion was not breed specific but depended on the individually genetic make up but 18 months should be considered the earliest point at which the dog could be said to have a completed skeleton. So I do sometimes wonder when I am told that such & such a breed is mature at 8 months.

>So I do sometimes wonder when I am told that such & such a breed is mature at 8 months.

It's difficult to imagine a Minor Puppy being a mature dog.

Certainly all breeds really should be hip scored (as HD is not confined to medium and large breeds), and eye tested.

I know of at least one breed where until people started checking no eye problems were known but quite quickly found to be affected by a hereditary disease.

I still don't understand why we don't have official scheme for patella's in the UK the grading system seems to work well enough in the USA and is long established.

Really don't want to upset those with small breeds but because of their comparative size problems in construction may not be so obvious but that does not mean it is not there. I believe that any dog, yes, even cross breeds and mongrels should, if they are to be used for breeding be health checked and for most inheritance connected problems there needs to be a link back through their ancestry and that applies whatever their size.

>I still don't understand why we don't have official scheme for patella's in the UK the grading system seems to work well enough in the USA and is long established.

Totally agree.  Having been involved with Toy breeds for many years. And having patella ops done on bitches, and getting them spayed, when the breeder of said bitch is still showing a line with the problem, I could spit feathers.  In particular Yorkshire Terriers and Toy Poodles should most definitely have a scheme for patella's.

I don't understand it either Barbara.