I am starting to get a game plan for my first litter together. I think we are looking at this time next year for the litter, but as I've just come from Crufts and shopping, I figure now is probably a good time to start cementing it all together so I'm ready :)

I am planning to use one of the cardboard whelping boxes this time before committing to buying a permanent one. Do I need pigrails? The breed is usually pretty careful, and my girl seems to be too.

I have a croft freedom pen to use as well. I have a standard pen, with 2 pairs of the smaller panels to extend it. Will this be big enough for a litter in a medium busy breed? I've been reading that some people have had puppies get stuck, so is using the croft pen even safe?

What feeders do you recommend? I had a look at the round puppy feeders at Crufts, but never had chance to look at the weenafeedas. Is there another option? My adults are raw fed, but the puppies I plan to wean onto a mix of RC and minces if that helps advising.

best thing to do is read the tread re croft pens :) i use to use a big weaning dish but now for afew weeks i use frisbys :) there brill!!! very low so pup can get in i have 5 toy breeds 5weeks old still eating from just 1 still and all can get in so med breed maybe 2 or 3 depends hw many pups.

Personally I would never go without pig rails. I have a small TOY litter at the moment and for the first few days my husband and I said many a time "Good job the pigrails were in!" as the smallest pup (which was quite a lot smaller initially) kept ending up behind mum, but under the pigrail.

i havnt got 5 toy breeds iv got 5 pups from a toy breed ,just incase ppl read and think im breeding from 5 dogs lol

I've got a medium to large breed and I always use pigrails to start but have often removed them by the end of the first week as have seen situations where they were safer out than in. I have used the disposable box once but now use a home made melamine coated chip board which we can take apart and store when not in use. The cardboard was OK but although coated I did not find it easy to clean and it looked pretty grose by the time my girl had had the pups.

Hi Carla  I personally have never used pigrails for this breed as they are usually very careful. Croft pens are good and an extended one like you have will be fine although you can obviously let them have more freedom when you are their to supervise. Lining the pen with cardboard is an option although I haven't found this a problem with them like I did with previous puppy pens. Either feeders will be fine athough if you want to moniter individual puppy intake the weenafeeder works well.

I have used cardboard whelping boxes once and never again. They are so difficult to clean. I have a plastic whelping box with pen that can be attached, always use pig rails. I use 1 big dish to feed.

Thanks everyone :) Hi Gill, I'm glad someone with the breed has commented cause I know we can't say what it is but not all breeds are the same! (Not to discount anyone else at all though!! I am grateful for all replies :))

I don't really want to buy a permanent box until I know I will breed again, and what I want in a box. I've looked at the linkaboards and snowsilks to name just 2 but they span such a wide price bracket and have so many different features that I didn't want to buy one and then find another type would suit me better. I don't like mess, but I guess I could always order two of the cardboard ones :)

2 of the cardboard ones could equate to 1 plastic one which could be recycled, food for thought?

I have a square plastic puppy pen base from years ago which is 3 foot square,a dn I sue croft puppy pen panels to make a whelping pen, lien the sides up about 18 inches with cardboard, use one panel on top an then cover with a blanket to make a cave.  the front panel is gated.

I have also used four foot panels to make a bigger whelping are using an off-cut of thick cushion floor lino about 6 foot square for a floor.  The fifth panel used for a roof keeps the pen square.

both these keep my pups and Mum happy in the living-room for three weeks.

They then move into the kitchen under breakfast bar where I can make a 6 x 3 foot puppy pen, the floor is tile,a nd I use shredded paper in my puppy pens, along with vet bed for the sleeping area.

By five weeks they want more space to run about in waking hours, so have a covered run with a UPC/Plasitc dog house, outside initially, and by 6 - 7 weeks have the full freedom of the outside dog area, and come and go into the kitchen, and get put in the puppy pen at night, for time out, or if the adults get fed up.

I have bred 2 litters of your breed and never used pig rails, as has been said ours tend to be careful and they were never left unsupervised anyway. Got a large cardboard box for the first litter 15 years ago (then onto a wooden one a week after whelping) which was disposed of afterwards.

For my second litter in 2011 I used a plastic whelping box (bought, thoroughly disinfected and left to air for a year, off a well known auction site) with the Freedom panels making a larger compound round the outside. The pups never went into the compound area, it was there just in case they did somehow manage to get out of the box and also to keep adults at a safe distance. I also used a metal mesh barrier across the front of the area they were in so adults couldn't get too close. (Not that they were particularly interested and, if they had been, pups would have been moved but all were happy with the arrangement.) Once pups were up and about they were moved into another part of the lounge/conservatory where they had more space and also direct access into garden (under supervision).

I have same breed too and never used pig rails. Nor has my breeder friend/mentor of over 40 yrs of breeding the best dogs in the world :-) Hhh, hum ... I am of course biased ;-)

I use a selection of feeders ... I've got a small and bigger metal feeder .. the ones that look like a Mexican hat! I borrow a Weenafeeda (can't stand the amount of washing up that these create, but I like to 'mix it up' in terms of feeding experiences), when they're very young I just use a dinner plate with an upturned soup bowl in the middle, or not ... purely stops the little dears running through the food quite so easily. Plus a variety of different feeding devices ... bowls, baking sheets, trays, etc etc :-D You don't need to spend anything, using what you've already got is just as good!

> never used pig rails

the only time I lost a pup to crushing (first hours after a long whelping when Mum and I both fell asleep) pups was in the middle of the whelping box.

Have never used pig rails, but have seen pups heads hung up on them at other peoples homes.

Feeding wise I have two sizes of round flat low sided stainless steel dog pans.

Have never used pig rails, but have seen pups heads hung up on them at other peoples homes.

Then they are not fitted properly, or left in for too long (i.e. until pups are too mobile). The ones I have in my whelping box for my toys has no gap at all in between rail and side of box, so nothing whatsoever to get stuck in/on.

For the sake of a few extra quid I think I might get the rails, then I have them if I want them - if I then don't need them, I don't need them :)

Always used a child blow up 3 or 4 ring paddling pool. Worked well for springer spaniels & terrier breed. No crushing of pups experienced, easy keeping clean and surprisingly lasted well for some weeks before claws punctured it.
Weaning dish was cup cake/ Yorkshire pudding tins, 6 or 4 little dishes already in one!

My son built me a whelping box out of an old wardrobe. It held a large gundog and her 7 pups but could have taken a lot more as it was a bit bigger than I expected ;-)

As to feeding bowls for the pups I tried many things but found that they did best using the large saucer that goes under plant pots. It is shallow enough for the pups to be able to feed, large enough to feed several at once, and was very very cheap to replace if they decided to play with it. :-)

I have read on a few sites that the cardboard ones can be very difficult to clean and often need replacing - but i am a relative new comer.

i have used and can recommend the warwick upvc whelping boxes. they are, in my opinion, reasonably priced and i bought a pet safe disinfectant from my vet (no doubt it will be cheaper online) and found it very easy to clean.

im not sure if we can post on here but ill try anyway -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warwick-Select-Plastic-Dog-Puppy-Whelping-Box-Large-36-x-36-not-cardboard-/330889529703?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Dogs&var=&hash=item4d0a8d8967

i am helping with a friends litter, she too bought a weenafeeda from crufts, but not sure what my thoughts are yet! i used very shallow large dishes (like the frisbee!)

:)