Just thought some of you might be interested to hear a brief account of experiences gained while attempting to track down a dobe puppy.

In essence - there's a lot of strange people out there! I've probably contacted about 15 breeders in total by phone, indicating at the outset of the conversation that I'm not at this particular moment looking for a puppy, but rather on an information-seeking mission with a view to locating a puppy later in the year. Virtually all the people I've spoken to have cut to the quick - told me when litters are due, and how much puppies are. This rather surprised me - firstly because I expected to be treated with kindly suspicion (after all, I'm taking one of their children home) and interrogated at length about my lifestyle and experience, and secondly, because I'd advised that I wasn't wanting a quick fix solution so didn't need the hard sell. One breeder I spoke to was willing to sell me a pup at 6 weeks - I thought they only did this in America? Two of the breeders I spoke to had separated the puppies from the bitch before 6 weeks, and were keeping the puppies in an outside kennel. Excellent early socialization, I think not. Am I just being over sensitive or is this how things are in the dog-eat-dog world of canines? Hope not. I obtained most of these breeders' contact details through the Kennel Club. Scary.

On the plus side, I have spoken to a couple of extremely helpful and obviously dedicated breeders, which has cheered me up somewhat (one of whom contacted me through Champdogs and gave up most of her evening giving me advice and info - thank you M!)

Anyway, over and out. Thank God it's Friday (tomorrow!)

Jo

Jo
I've had just the total opposite when trying to get more info on Rotties. Breeders automatically assume that I just want a Rottie for the ego factor. When they ask "why do you want a rottie", I simply answer "I've always been a fan of rotts, and am now in a situation where I can lookafter one". I also make it clear that I know that they are great family dogs, when socialised properly, but can be very protective". I tell them that I'm not into "pet" dogs, but dogs who that can give a little bit back, in a rotties case it is in the way of protection" but as soon as I mention protection or guard or broad or muscular, they just jump on my back. It is sooooo upsetting.
I've just been totally, totally put off.
I think its a shame cos I know I could have given their "kid" a really good home! Also, its disapointing, because its a chance to make new friends within breeding circles, I had loads of fun researching into my GSD and made loads of new friends, but this time around, its been a total nightmare!!! I try and be honest with them, but its gotten me no-where. I guess they just sell to people who've got "the gift of the gab"
Good Luck to you and your search, and I hope you have a happier time of it then I have....did!!!
Josh_

Jo, I am not surprised that you got a negative response when mentioning that you aren't into pets but want the protection aspect of the breed. The breed standard states not aggressive, and the breeders who care have been making tremendous efforts to change the perception of the breed as a slathering devil dog, and don't want people who view them as gurad dogs fearing that they will not have a loving family home. Sounds like mis communication on your part, and over sensitivity (understandavle) on theirs.

Also names of breeders from the Kennel Club puppy list does not mean they are in any way vetted or above average, all that it tells you is they have registered a litter, and have not registered five or more litters in the last 12 months (trhereby being commercial according to the law of the land). You are far better contac ting a breed club for information about a given breeder, whether they are club members, and what their standing in the breed community is!

Thanks for the advice Brainless, but to be honest, its so fustrating that my reasons for having a rottie are being questions. I know that if I told them that my family have been working with animal for over 100 years (including setting up animal sanctuaries, and running game reserves in Kenya) that they wouldn't doubt me, but I want them to judge me, not my families expertise.

>into pets but want the protection aspect of the breed<

No, this is NOT what I WANT. You are correct that it is mis communication. I wrote "I tell them that I'm not into "pet" dogs, but dogs who that can give a little bit back, IN A ROTTIES CASE it is in the way of protection".
I try to tell them (and anyone reading this), that i mean I'm not into "lap dogs" (maybe this this a better word than "pet dog"). I try and inform the breeder that I do understand that Rotties can have a protective streak in them, but that I am aware of this. I would like to think that rottie breeders make sure that prosective owner know all aspects of the rottie.

>The breed standard states not aggressive< Which breed doesn't? And if breeders are telling people that rotties are no longer protective (NOT AGGRESSIVE, THERE'S A DIFFERENCE, and certainly not a dog who will be happy stuck in the garden all day on its own!!!) then I personally feel that this is a mistake on the breeders part.

My defination of a rottie is a family dog (medium/large size), who NEEDS a very close companionship with his/her family. Needs plenty of excercise with firm yet fair discipline from an early age as the breed does have a tendency to be a stubborn. Its a dog who has a layed back, "wait and see what happens" attitude, and is therefore not an ideal guard/watch dog. However, if s/he feels that his/her family is under threat, s/he is willing and more than capable of protecting the family. He is very clever and quick to learn and therefore adaptable, hence has not only been used as police dogs/ army dogs/ security dogs but even Pets As Therapy dogs .
Is my definition correct? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Is there anything to add?
IS CAROLYN FROM OAKPRIDES AROUND?, I'D LOVE TO KNOW WHAT SHE ALSO THINKS? OR ANY OTHER ROTTIE BREEDERS/EXPERTS.
Josh
P.S. this is just my understanding from what I've read over the internet and through loads of books.

Dizzy is a Rottie expert, and hopefully she wil se your thread! From the experience (second hand) I have of Rotts I think your definition pretty acuarate. What I am saying is that responsible breeders are ver4y worried by owners that are drawn to the guarding side of the breed fearing they want the dog for the wrong reason. I am not saying this is true of you, as you seem to hasve done some research.

Done some research- bl**dy heck- you sound like you've done more than half the breeders you contacted:D :D :D Hope you have some good luck soon:) Interesting to hear what yu thought of the GSD breeders though- I found half to be very helpful and friendly, willing to try and help- the other half I found quite --- the opposite let's just say:) All the same good luck!

Stacey x x x

Stacey
Ther was a lovely lady in Evesham that I spoke to and an excellent couple in Birmingahm (eimerkopf, they are listed on this site, whom I got Sophie off. They are absolutely FANTASTIC people).
The thing was that it was christmas time when I wanted to get the pup, so I could spend all xmas hols giving it 24 hour attention so she could settle down. I was warned that breeders would give me a hard time because of this period in the year, but Jackie and Ken (eimerkopf) were very fair with me. I spoke to other breeders on the phone but Jackie and Ken were soooo nice, and Sophie was beautiful, that neither my Dad, Sister or myself couldn't go anywhere else.
Are you looking to get a GSD?

No Josh- I was talking about this time last year when I was looking myself- I got a lovely bitch:) Good Luck in your search though:)

Stacey x x x

Brainless
I can understand that,and its due to them that the breed hasn't been put on the illegal list.
Its just fustrating.

josh, are you still wanting a rottie, where in the country are you, have you any preferences, type etc

Dizzy
I'm in coventry. What do you mean by type?

Hi Josh

Cheers for calling me an expert :-),im no expert at all i just love my breed and try to do the best i can for them and owners,dont care if i bred it or not.

I know exactly what you mean josh as i personally like a good sized rottie with the charm and daftness of a teddy bear,not that they are teddy bears.
It is true that you mention the word guard dog and thoughts turn to a dog being chained up,thrown a bit of food and used to look good with,and it does happen :(

I really cant add to much from what you have said a rottie loves people,company and just being loved,BUT in the wrong hands it can be a tiger and that is what every good breeder is trying to stop happening.

I do know the timing isnt right for you at the moment and like i said when we met last week-end let me know when you are ready and I will help you any way i can,come to more shows if you have time,we are at Stafford on Sunday.
Hope to see you soon

Carolyn

Hi carolyn, how r u? How did bear do last week? I've sent you an email. I hope you respond and keep in contact.
Thanks for everything last week
Josh
P.S. please give bear a big soppy kiss from me.....I'm sure he'd prefer it from your lips rather than mine!!!!:)

if carolynes helping you then shes more in touch with the breeders now than i am, so i'll leave you in her capable hands :) good luck with finding one

Hi Jo,

I've been doing the same thing only researching about labs. I had one breeder tell me not to bother them until I actually wanted to get the puppy!!! I wanted to know about their dogs and whether they had current eye certificates and had been hip scored etc. This did concern me a bit as I also got their details from the Kennel Club. I thought that the breeder would prefer you to have spent time finding out everything you can on the particualr breed. However I have found some breeders that have ben most helpful :-) Like you I want to get a puppy later on in the year. Good luck in finding a good, caring, responsible breeder!

Jo,
I do think it's a shame when some breeders let the rest of us down!

When I was breeding I always tried to give prospective owners the "third degree" because I was fussy who my babies were going to live with. One woman wanted a bitch ("they're smaller") to live on the balcony of her flat!! I suggested a terracotta model. (I expect she's now wondering what breed a "terracotta" is!!)

Selling pups at 6 weeks is wrong, to my mind, although it is the legal minimum age. I also never separate mum from the pups - it's up to her when she's with them - because she can teach them so much. As you say, if pups are in an outside kennel, how do they get used to the noise of the vacuum cleaner, the washing machine, phone, TV, etc etc etc? They can't, so those pups are at a disadvantage, poor things, and are more likely to end up fearful dogs.

I'm glad you found a couple of sensible breeders at the end, though. Just goes to show how much effort is needed to get a good result.

Jo,

It may be legal in the U.S. to sell a puppy at 6 weeks, but no responsible breeder would ever do it. Most of the breed clubs have membership requirements which include breeders agreeing not to sell puppies under the age of 8 weeks or older. The American Cairn Terrier Club members, for example, will not sell a puppy under the age of 12 weeks.

I am afraid the legal 6 week age limit is another reflection that in the eyes of the law dogs are treated much like farm produce. It's weaned, it can survive without mum, so it's ready to sell.

Stacey

<<<It may be legal in the U.S. to sell a puppy at 6 weeks, but no responsible breeder would ever do it.>>>

Actually, I believe it to be the other way round.
In most US states, they have laws making it illegal to sell puppies under 8 weeks old...what do we have here? ;)

I feel I have to join in with this discussion. Having researched my breed before I bought a pup, I found the breeders (other than one) extremely uninterested, and certainly took offence when I talked about temperment. I did decide to talk to the breed rescue, and they were wonderful in comparison, full of helpful advice.
On the information I was given and the attitude, I bought a puppy from a pet breeder, I met the puppy at 3 weeks, and had many visits, before I bought him home. I was happy as he had spent his first weeks living in a home with children, dogs and cats .I do accept there are some good breeders, but there are also alot that are quite narrow minded.
The sad thing is that I have worked with dogs, and have advised many potential dog owners, to always go to a breeder, so I surprised myself, but I did feel guilty.
I hope this does not cause offence, by the information that the breeders give via this site.there are some really helpful people around, I just thought I had to agree with the potential dobe owner.
Maisie

Thanks for the info everyone! The other thing I forgot to mention which Ice-Cosmos has just reminded me of was that apart from the breeder who kindly contacted me through Champ-Dogs and a couple of others, the rest were surprisingly vague when I asked about the relevant health checks one would presume had been carried out on the pups' parents and did not volunteer information. I actually felt quite uncomfortable pursuing it, so just made a mental note not pursue that particular puppy. Thing is tho, I'd hate anyone to think I was tarring all breeders with the same brush - let me emphasize again how grateful I was to the breeders who obviously thoroughly adored their dogs and gave up their time to talk to me!

It's probably a bit naive of me to be surprised - I used to work with horses so sadly am aware that for every dedicated owner there's someone else out there who doesn't give a damn.

Anyway, apart from that it's been a great experience learning all about dobes. In fact I've become completely obsessed and just can't wait till I'm finally able to introduce one into the family! June is such a long way off.

Have a good one

Jo

PS Good luck with the puppy search, Cosmos!!

Hi Jo
i think it is sad reflection of SOME breeders that they are so uninterested as to where their dogs are going! :( My two dobes are lovely dogs but there is a vast difference on the two (different) breeders from whence they came! My first dobe, Salem is really laid back and a fab family dog - When we got him - we phoned the breeder up who said they had pups available and so we went up, picked one and went home again - simple as that! In retrospect i think we have been very,very lucky to get the dog we have. We asked alot of questions which they answered and seemed helpful enough although when we asked about testing we hit the same brick wall - ' we've never had a problem with our dogs!' was their answer and it left us sufficently embarressed to have even dared to ask that we didn't persue it! :(
The second breeder that we went to for our pup Dizzy, was completely different.We had phoned a few times beforehand, and had to wait six months before there were any pups. When we actually went to visit them (I think the pups were about 6 weeks old) we were actually nervous, it felt a bit like going to the headmasters office at school!!! :D Thankfully we passed any test that there was <G> and we were allowed to see the pups and they helped us to choose the one that would probably suit us best! :) We are still in touch with them and see them regulalry at shows and they have offered invaluable help and advice all the way through.
(If you want their details I could send them to you.)
Unfortunatly, the KC list is unhelpful (we had the same problems when we were first looking for Salem) as they don't suggest or reccommend any particular breeders - it's just a list! So it is worth persevering because the right breeder for you is out there - so is the dog! :)
Good luck with your search
Best wishes
Sharon

Hi Sharon - have emailed you to say thanks for your words of encouragement. It's great to hear that you've ended up with two fab dobes - means there's hope for everybody who's still searching!

Take care

Jo