I was surprised that no-one mentions that the winner cannot possibly be able to see much through the hair. Do owners tie it up or cut it off for normal living?
Louise

I must admit I had similar feelings about the Skye Terrier that won the Terrier group.

> I had similar feelings about the Skye Terrier

Looked more like the head of a large mop than a dog :( :( There's nothing wrong with a well-groomed dog - but a dog should look like a fit-for-purpose dog IMO :( :(

I must admit to feeling very disappointed with this years winners the lab was far to big for my taste.

Not my breed but I rather agree.

In that group I was rather taken with the Chesapeake Bay Retriever and the Bracco

The chesapeake for me and  normally dont like that sort but he looked outstanding.

Well, all I can say is that on the statue of Greyfriar's Bobby you can definitely see the eyes. One doesn't want to take from the winners and since none of us went over the dogs we do not have the full picture, but my gut reaction is that flowing locks and beautifully groomed and shampooed coats do not a terrier make.

I must admit I have very mixed feelings about the ethics of breeding dogs with such profuse coats. They need so much care to keep them in top condition. never mind whether or not they can see, It can't be much fun for the dog to have to be brushed and combed every day. Pulling on knots can be painful.

As a groomer I see no end of Shih Tzus, Lhasas,Tibetan Terriers etc with extensive matting because they hate being groomed. Is it really ethical to breed dogs which need such on going coat care? Obviously I would be breeding myself out of a job but I sometimes consider whether there would be a market for another designer cross breed. The short haired Shih Tzu.

However, one should still congratulate the owner of the Skye, since it is a huge achievement and no doubt he'd do a good day's work if his fur was shorter- if this kind of presentation is what the ring and standard demands then one has no choice but to comply if one wants to show.

The standard only demands "Outer coat reasonable length".  It also states "veiling forehead and eyes, but not obscuring vision" although it is hard to see anything but a contradiction there.

I also wondered how those dogs managed in daily life or do they have their fur tied up most of the time.  As for the lab he was a lovely looking dog but I would have preferred him to be a bit lighter weight, although show labs are bulkier than working. Presumably as he got this far all the judges were of the same opinion regarding his general conformation or he would not have won.
The comment re weight seems to be seems to be coming from lots of different directions though

Stooge,

"Reasonable length" is not a very helpful phrase, though I guess what is reasonable for the context of the show ring is very different from what is reasonable for a working context. Perhaps the dog can see through all that fur 'veiling' its eyes- would be quite hard to prove otherwise since they use their noses.

Anyhow, just to be clear, this is not a criticism of the owner or her dog but just a general observation- don't want to spoil her day/week.

Sometimes I think anything is regarded as reasonable in the show ring :) 

> whether there would be a market for another designer cross breed. The short haired Shih Tzu.

but surely peopel are attracted to logn coated breeds because of the coat.

It then seems really strange to me that they are then happy to have it turned into a scalped cocktail sausage.

There are plenty of short coated breeds to choose from.

It amazes me that folk buy longhaired dachshunds in the US and then proceed to cut off a lot of the hair, why not buy a smooth in the first place.

Did anyone listen to Frank Kane interviewing a cocker breeder of long standing last night?  He asked her about changes seen in the breed over the decades and she mentioned how they went from a good working size to very small for the show ring (but the original size was coming back in fashion now) BUT the coats today were far more profuse and would be detrimental to the dogs working in the field...they hurriedly cut her off and went onto an different topic.

>It can't be much fun for the dog to have to be brushed and combed every day. Pulling on knots can be painful.

But if they are brushed and combed every day (properly, not the surface brush that so many pet owners do), they won't have knots. And if the dog and owner are taught to brush and comb properly so it isn't painful, the dog will never learn to hate grooming. I know what you mean, I am a groomer and see a lot of matted dogs too, but it's the fault of the breeder for selling without educating, and the owners for buying a breed they aren't suited to have as far as coat care goes, as well as the fashion for more coat in the modern show ring.

My pet tibetan terrier (temperamentally he was never going to end up in the ring, he HATES men).. is in full coat.

He has very long eyelashes that do keep a lot of the fall away from his eyes and when he moves it naturally flicks back out of his face. Much of the time at home though we do him a little top knot with some plaiting bands.

They definitely CAN see with that hair in their faces, but I don't think they can see as well as when its tied up out of the way.

My lad really enjoys grooming, its his one to one attention time with Mummy and he adores physical contact, massage, scritches etc.
It does annoy me massively when people get coated breeds because they love the look... then don't bother learning to groom them!

This is why many people with dogs on the high profile list feel a little hard done by! Dogs are there because of "exageration" . Surely the coats of many breeds have been exagerated so much they cannot lead a normal dogs life. I cannot imagine many of these going for walks in the countryside and probably spend half their lives with it pinned up. I would have thought the anti dog show brigade would have had a field day comparing some of these with the "average" dog.

My SWD's when they have a longer coat are still able to see.  They also lead natural lives of swimming in lakes, rolling in mud and running in fields.....

Ditto Theemx - my OES also have very long eyelashes which keep the hair away from the actual eye, and they can see well enough with their hair down as it tends to part for at least one eye.  However I do tie it up in a top knot  for general life as when they are all haring around in the fields (getting dirty and twiggy shock horror!) it gives them greater clarity for finding my legs to bash into!  I am in no doubt that were my crew to fulfill their original purpose they would be much better clipped back to 2-3 inches but their long coats certainly don't impede on them living a full active life.