Sorry, I have no idea how to word the title properly!

I was reading elsewhere about someone who is already a dog owner of long standing, and has several dogs bought from breeders as pets. This person has now become interested in a certain breed - minority and endangered - and made some enquiries to a highly recommended breeder, but has then allegedly been told that s/he would not be a suitable owner because they don't drive.

There is a reason this person doesn't, and that's because they can't... due to epilepsy. But from what I gather, they have been told by someone in the breed that because they can't drive and rely on public transport, how would they take the dog to suitable places to be walked? Get it to the vets? Shock, horror.

Speaking as someone who also doesn't drive, but has managed dog/s of a much larger breed than this very well indeed on public transport for the last 7 years, inclduing regular long distance travel, I find this attitude completely distasteful, and not just because it smacks of discrimination against someone with a disability. There has never been any question of me not being able to get my dogs to a vet in an emergency, in fact I have always had numbers of local taxi firms that would take them... and as to needing a car to get to walks, how ridiculous is that? Dogs have legs! Wow! You can walk them to a suitable place!

Now be honest, please... is this a one-off from an overly-fussy jobsworth type breeder, or would you choose to disregard a potential buyer who doesn't drive? (And, as it has been raised, would you consider a puppy buyer with a disability?).

I'm not only an owner, but exhibitor and breeder who doesn't drive. 

Until OH came along 5 years ago for 15 years I relied on Public transport, friends and relatives, and managed in that time to care for exercise and show my dogs.

Thank you Brainless.. I knew you were one of the likes of us who doesn't drive, it just seems so ridiculous! (as well as the disability bit which is very non-pc borderline illegal).
Apparently this person has met breeders at DD and the like and got a lot of encouragement but then this awful, snobby knockback when making a genuine enquiry.

I have told them to try a pre-internet approach - do it like in the old days - if they are that committed to the breed then join the breed club [assuming they will let a non driver in! lol] which signals intent, and then see if there's any shows they can get to with a good entry of the breed and meet them on the benches.

Does make you wonder if the breed is endangered through no fault of its own!

The driving bit is not that important. I would want to be hearing how / where they or anyone else come to that would be exercising the dog. The disability bit would be dependant. I actually have a sister who has and still does suffer from a particularly bad form of epilepsy ( epilepsy varies so much ) and no I would not think her suitable for one of my dogs. I also sold a puppy once to someone who did not tell me she had epilepsy. She had a fit,fell over the dog and broke her leg very badly, in fact she finished up with one leg shorter than the other and obviously a very bad limp. She and I were devestated but she decided to re-home her as she felt unable to cope.
In my last litter a puppy went to someone with a club foot but she was and her  family are still active.
I think it entirely depends on a person's overall situation but mine are an extremely lively breed and I hope I would take all circumstances into account.

What a disgraceful attitude ! Over reliance on the car is at root of so many problems in our world. I have driven  to our nearest rail station to collect puppy viewers . It's a fair distance but one I'm more than happy to do if I'm sure the people are genuine  and suitable prospective owners. Similarly, I have travelled  long distances by train to collect a puppy and ...to take a girl to a stud. Breeders have been very accommodating in this respect. I do not like long distance/motorway driving .

Regarding discrimination against disability , that would have to depend on the circumstance  because my breed are a very active one but assuming a good support network , I would have no hesitation. I was brought up with a severely disabled cousin and frankly her disability was never regarded as a difference between us.

I have to say that is absolutely ridiculous!

Nowadays there is a tendency, in my opinion, of some breeders being over fussy with their puppies. I've seen no children, no old people, no workers full or part time, no new to dog owners, no breeding, no showing.....the list goes on, and on. Now no non drivers.

I understand and agree in certain circumstances why there are some restrictions such as no full time workers and no breeding (unless health test results are acceptable), but it's gone from the sublime to the ridiculous!

These over zealous idiots make it very hard for genuine people to find just what they're looking for, and encourage puppy buyers to just say just what some breeders want to hear.

I wonder if it is an excuse as if it is a minority breed and the breeder is looking for a working or show owner rather than a pet buyer to try and ensure that the lines continue to be proven in these areas and promote the breed ?

Or just an excuse as they didn't feel the prospective owner is right ?

I wonder how many breeders would say little white lies rather than say I just don't feel you were right as alot of people would want to know why and sometimes it maybe difficult to articulate and so get into a difficult dialogue about it.

Even in minority breeds there must be pet quality pups looking for homes, surely if vet care[the walking in the right places was just an excuse] was a concern then her vet could give a reference.

If she has successfully cared for dogs in the past and her epilepsy is under control then I don't see a problem.

How puppy buyers get from A to B and questions re their health problems don't come up in conversation.

I would be contacting the breed clubs and the KC re this discrimination.

A lot would depend in the severity of the epilepsy, I know someone with a mild form and with tablets it's all at bay but can't go back on the road yet and he'd make a great owner for any dog.
The main query I'd have is how they'd get to a vet in an emergency, including out of hours. Would they need to wait for a bus, could they walk, do they live with someone with a car or would it be relying on taxi's? If an emergency I would be concerned if there was a need to wait for public transport as this could mean the difference between life and death in the case of say bloat. How would you carry certain breeds if relying on walking as not every vet will come to you.
Lots to think about and I do wonder whether the breeder has just not explained themselves very well.

I live alone and if say I broke a leg I'd be on the same situation and would pre arrange with say my next door neighbour to take me. It is a case of asking the questions what measures they have put in place if something happens..
As for dog walking, as long as they don't live on a major trunk road with no paths I don't see that an issue

I did not have access to a car (as a passenger) until 2001. I still managed to get to breeders at the other end of the country (from 1988 onwards), to shows, and socialisation was FAR FAR better as my pups had no other choice but to get used to buses from day one! That is one thing I would say has most definitely NOT been improved by having a car available. I had to take two buses every week to get to training classes alone. With a car you get lazy. Sure I've been to the bus station, train station etc with my current pup, but with her granny, I went EVERY WEEK, no matter what.

As for the vet, quite apart from normal taxis, if you ask around a bit most towns will have pet taxis that exist to take owners and animals to the vet. And my vet have their own ambulances, so should I have a major emergency when I am home alone (I am currently just learning to drive) they will come out and fetch us.

As a breeder, I have often met kitten buyers at the train station, and once a puppy buyer. I think for most people, using a car would be far preferable when collecting a pup (not vaccinated, will probably throw up etc) but there are always ways around that -I always managed to find people to drive me even when the journey was several hours.

> has then allegedly been told that s/he would not be a suitable owner because they don't drive.
> There is a reason this person doesn't, and that's because they can't... due to epilepsy.

Do you think driving is the whole issue?  Could it be a number of factors, including a lack of understanding about epilepsy, and the breeder has chosen just this one to focus on?

I've read over the years a number of breeders on this forum discussing just how to say "NO" to prospective puppy buyers and many seem to find it difficult - partly because it's a gut feeling they cannot always quantify -  these people then often look for other more tangible reasons to excuse potential buyers from their lists.  Presumably because very few of us would ever say 'you're not having one of my puppies because I don't like you'  or 'your children', or 'I don't trust you'...

Of course it wouldn't be fair to discriminate based on transport, or disability, but breeders can and do make choices every time about where to place their puppies and they need to feel comfortable that they are giving their puppies the best homes.  In a waiting of list of 6 owners, for instance, and only 5 puppies perhaps, then I can well see how a non driver might find themselves lower on the list of desirable attributes a breeder may look for.  I'm not saying it's right but perhaps it's natural if they themselves are drivers and cannot comprehend how a non driver copes.

Well, I have to say it has never been a question I have asked or even thought about whilst vetting and I thought I covered pretty much everything. :-D

But, in saying that I've never had anyone getting a bus/train and a taxi to my house to view a pup, so I've never been put in that position, being me I probably would worry watching a pup of mine going off for a long public transport journey to it's new home, but if I knew where it was going was a nice area with plenty of good walks and I was happy with the new owner/s it wouldn't put me off. As  if people don't drive themselves they do have a partner, family or friends who would help them out along with of course taxi's if a rush to the vets is needed etc.

I may be wrong but do you think it really was nothing to do with the driving but because the lady in question has epilepsy? It may well have been a red flag to the breeder worrying if an attack happened what would happen to the pup? And she has used the driving as an excuse? Personally I think it is more likely, as when is being a driver ever flagged up I honestly have never even thought of it until just now.

> I've read over the years a number of breeders on this forum discussing just how to say "NO" to prospective puppy buyers and many seem to find it difficult

I know I do. I am struggling with this at the moment. I am really going to have to refuse one of the people who wants one of my pups now. I am struggling with how to go about telling her as I know she will be really upset. Problem is she is 79, not in the best of health and already has a young dog of the same breed who is a handful. I know she means well and would do her best to give a dog a good home but I cannot in all conscience let her one of these pups. I have been trying tactfully to suggest she might find it too much. I have known her for years and she thinks she should have priority over my other puppy buyers. which if she was younger and fitter she would have. I am getting to the point now where I will just have to come right out and say no and give the actual reasons but I absolutely hate doing it and it may be the end of our friendship. :(

I admit I am ageist, I would not sell a pup to anyone over 60 that is my stopping point, it might seem unjustified to many especially as my own mother is as fit as a fiddle and quite a lot older than that with 7 dogs but we as a family have told her she can have no more dogs as it is unfair on us... as who ends up looking after them when they pass?

You have to think of your pup who hopefully will live anywhere up to 15 years, you have to be tough, the chances of the lady in question living to be 94 and being fit enough to still care for a dog are pretty low so just be straight, I always make people look ahead not just at the now as we could all do many things if we just looked at the now, life is about planning and when it comes to lives you must and have to plan. :-)

> ... she is 79, not in the best of health ...

That happened to us too. I was going to suggest to my friend that we jointly own the puppy so that we would have her back if my friend's health let her down. And as joint owners, we would be involved in future decision making for any reason that would require owners' signatures. But as it turned out, our friend actually needed hospital treatment while the pups were still young. So it never happened, and we're still friends!

Would joint ownership be a possibility in your situation? Or do you think she just won't be able to cope with a puppy any more?

>I would not sell a pup to anyone over 60 that is my stopping point

That's not even retirement age! (Anyone born after 1953 won't retire till they're 66.) As people often don't have time for a dog till they're retired are you saying they should never have a puppy?

I know JG, I also know I'll probably take some flack for that as many on here are already over 60 and brilliant dog owners, but as with the under 7's rule there is always room for maneuver. ;-) I'm not saying never as if there is a plan in action for if the owner becomes ill or **gulp** dies then that would make a huge difference.

But, on the whole I'm not looking at a 60 year old person owning a dog, I'm looking at a 75 year old owning one and if it hasn't been properly thought through I would have to turn them down. I start with my blanket rules with the possibility once meeting people of it shifting, but my vetting rules are there for a good reason. :-)

>on the whole I'm not looking at a 60 year old person owning a dog, I'm looking at a 75 year old owning one

If someone buys a puppy when they're 60, by the time they're 75 the dog itself is 15 ... they'll have grown old together and probably suit each other very well.

> Now be honest, please... is this a one-off from an overly-fussy jobsworth type breeder, or would you choose to disregard a potential buyer who doesn't drive? (And, as it has been raised, would you consider a puppy buyer with a disability?).

I don't like blanket rules - in fact that's one of my bêtes noires! So I have sold to folk who don't drive and collected them from the station (well, the second time they came). They live in a city directly opposite a park. I know their dog has a great life. We lived in London ourselves for a few years, near several parks, and our dog was very well exercised indeed. We didn't even have a car either. The vet was walking distance too, though we could have got there on the bus if need be. So I wouldn't necessarily let the non-driving aspect put me off selling a puppy. It depends entirely on the circumstances of the individual concerned.

As for the health aspect, again it's an individual thing. If the person concerned is usually well and I thought they were likely to be good owners, then yes, I'd sell them one.

And we've sold to more than one family where one member had a disability. It's all about how the family as a whole copes, something you can take a good guess at when you meet them.

Equally we've turned down many, many people if we didn't think they were 'right' for one of our pups. We have a good filtering system. But I always try not to come across as unkind. They're our puppies and it's up to us to place them where we think they will thrive, but there's no need to upset people.

they'll have grown old together and probably suit each other very well.

True enough it's a hard one to justify, as there are pluses and minuses.  I know at the end of the day it comes down to people and individuals and I'm still open to that but with that invisible line initially drawn.

I guess I also like to think once retired people have the chance of freedom no work ties, children all grown up and the chance to just think of themselves and do things they have never been able to, often they do not think how a dog will tie them down for years. I've seen that happen too. But on the polar opposite side to that I know for many that is not a problem and a dog is their wish and their life and sometimes their only life, it's swings and roundabouts I suppose.

Age will still be in the forefront of my mind, I want forever homes for my pups, I tried to think 65 but that brings people to 80, the thought of an older dog being passed on I don't like, even if coming to me, so in my mind 60 was a cut off I was happy with, but as none of us have our future medical records to hand maybe that is an unfair judgement to make, but it will still be a worry for me...... not something I can just turn off.

My dad is 81 and walks my dogs everyday - he is always complaining that they don't walk far enough for him :-) . I own the dogs but OH and I are out at work all day and as my parents live next door the dogs are in the garden all day (very secure) if they want to be, but my dad insists on walking them all seperately so three walks twice a day. I see no reason for someone who is older not to have a dog unless they really cannot go out regularly, and if this is the only concern the breeder has then simply asking the question may avoid unnecessary upset. Many older people will have plans in place for what should happen with pets if they became ill or worse. The same for those with disabilities. Don't be scared to ask what they would do if ... , they will either tell you or it will make them think about it and either make arrangements or decide against the whole idea.

As for not having a car - I have never heard of anything so ridiculous in my life! I bet most puppies are at home all day with one person while the other has the car at work! If there was an emergency you would find a way of getting to a vet whether you had a car or not.

The next thing you know we will be needing MI5 clearance, a clean driving licence, a second car in case the first is off the road, a dozen references from vets, a genetic profile of our health and probable life span and a couple of squillion quid in the bank before we are even allowed to contact a breeder :-D

:-D :-D Luckily we have many, many breeders out there, we'll all have our own little idiosyncrasies and each breeder will have their own vetting views, it might not suit some but will others, and there are plenty out there to suit us all, so no-one should miss out no matter what their circumstances. :-)

Thank you Jeangenie. I'm 62 and feel and (I'm told) look much younger. I'm certainly fitter than many who are 10 or even 20 years younger. My ideal puppy buyers are active retired people. However, I think 79 would be pushing it a bit, particularly if the lady is  already struggling with a youngster.

> I would not sell a pup to anyone over 60

Quite upset me :( I'm nearly 58 and have two oldies who may well not be here by the time I get to 60 :( In other words, you wouldn't let me have another dog. My OH (who is 66) are rebuilding our house over the last 4/5 years and regularly carry sacks of cement, sheets of plasterboard, etc etc etc etc. We're both perfectly fit and on no medication ..........

Nice to be written off :( You're obviously not over 60 !

I have taken an interest in this site recently and found it helful as we have a new litter. I was shocked to read this post as I have a 3 year old son with epilepsy (thankfully only mild and is fully controlled with medication) I fear for him in the future like for example not being able to drive. The thought of him not being allowed a dog either?! I do agree though that a pup and perhaps severe epilepsy could be a concern, but this person may not live alone and may have a mild form. But can't see a problem with the driving part, lots of people don't drive and still get about.

Anyone can die at any age, or get ill. I had not one but TWO friends who literally dropped dead in their mid 40s. Both had animals including dogs. One died suddenly in her home at Christmas one year, the other out in her garden, whilst gardening.

The important part isn't age, it's planning. And that should go for us ourselves, as well. We ALL need to have plans written down in case we have a car accident tomorrow. I have let two dogs go to a friend who is in her late 60s. That gave her a brand new hobby -she found the first pup was so energetic she wanted to give him an outlet for that energy (Papillon) so she found local flyball classes. Suited her perfectly, as like she says, in flyball YOU stand still -not like in agility or even obedience where the handler has to run as well. Her first dog from me will be at Crufts next year in a flyball team and her life is suddenly taken up with training and competitions. :) She wants a third dog from me next year and I have no worries there, because I know the emergency plans. There is other family available (that I have met and liked) to help out, plus of course the dogs could come back to me at any time should it ever be necessary. But hopefully there will be no need. People in their 60s are generally speaking NOT old these days, far from it!

I've also sold a pup to somebody in their late 70s, that ended up being co-owned and the agreement was should anything happen, the dog goes to the co-owner.

So no, I don't believe in blanket rules either.

Nice to be written off

Now I'm feeling terrible. :-( so you should, I hear many saying **tin hat pushed on tight**

I knew I was opening a bag of worms here in stating how I feel, I really do not wish to offend, but when I am 60 (and it's not a million miles away) I will not take on a pup for myself either. An older dog yes, but not a pup.

I look at a pup the same way as having a new baby, dogs are family just the same, I don't agree in IVF for a 60 year old for all the same reasons I want forever homes as much as I possibly can, I know there are many variations to people's lives and my 'ruling' will not be one suit for all, but I have to make a judgment call for my pups and for me this is it, unless I knew for sure other family members would have a dog if an owner has passed on or is too ill. I just don't think it is fair.

But luckily for those who don't like my thoughts on this there are plenty of other breeders, but as I've said it is not set in stone.

I'd be somewhat worried in this day and age if breeders turned down potential buyers on age alone -surely that is leaving yourself open to possible legal action. It happened at home in Sweden not long ago. (As reported in the Swedish KC's magazine.) Not the exact same case scenario, but a breeder turned down  a gay person as a potential home. The reasons were nothing to do with the person's sexual orientation according to the breeder, but the potential buyer went to court, claimed it was part of it, and won.

LOVE JG's comments putting age into perspective.
LOVE Esme's comment 'Blanket rules ... One of my Bêtes Noires'
LOVE Goldmali's comment 'not about age... But planning'

One of the things I really LOVE about this forum is that very often in reading through a thread other posters often change my long standing beliefs/opinions ~ I really hope this happens for some on this thread!

Goldmali, If that were the reason then I'm glad that the person won. As being gay makes no difference to how a dog is cared for.

However, I think it is fair enough for a breeder to worry that a dog may be found wanting or even homeless in a few years by choosing an elderly person to rear and home their pup, (from 70 upwards we are elderly whether we like it or not and the dog would only be 10 years or even younger then) if contingency plans were not in place I just wouldn't do it.

I don't home a pup with the intention of having that dog back aged 10+ if I can help it,  it is not fair on the dog I'd rather wait for a suitable home where it will hopefully live out it's life.

I don't think any court would rule that in the interest of a pup a breeders decision on this is out of order.

What I would say to anyone in their 60's and 70's looking for a pup is to make sure that you satisfy breeders like me in showing that the dogs future is well thought out and plans are there if something goes wrong and not to just rely on the breeder having the dog back as it is not fair.

> What I would say to anyone in their 60's and 70's looking for a pup is to make sure that you satisfy breeders like me in showing that the dogs future is well thought out and plans are there if something goes wrong and not to just rely on the breeder having the dog back as it is not fair.

These considerations were in my mind, too, when I bought my present pup.  I am over your cut-off age, Carrington, by a bit.  I chose the breed, and type of that breed, bearing in mind exercise and other care requirements, and having contingency plans in place. He is almost certainly my last pup (but the final decision will depend on my health and circumstances in 15 years' time :) ) and very probably (and sadly) my last dog.  As others have said, none of us knows how long we have left (I'm counting on anything from one minute to 50 years lol!) nor how much of that will be healthy; so all we can do is make the best plans we can, and then give them the best lives possible for as long as we can.  Luckily there are many more activities available for dogs and owners nowadays than when I had my previous puppy in the 1970s.

Other considerations to factor in to the balance are: having the luxury of time to train and care for this little life; no new babies to worry about; no work commitments which may change;  stable circumstances. 

I am shocked Carrington by that remark - I am in the process of getting a new pup now - because I am 62 - my present dog is nearly 8 and I hope she lives a good long life - but waiting for her time out will be too late then to think of taking on a pup.  I can't think negatively about my health -  I want to go on doing agility like many others, into their seventies and hopefully encourage at least one of my four grandchildren to get involved too.   Illness  can strike us down at any age and I am not about to take up my zimmer frame just yet.  

As for the subject of the thread - I know someone with 3 dogs who has epilepsy - and each one is trained (he has trained them) as an assistance dog because he is unable to take the drugs to control the fits.  The dogs warn him of the fit and sit by him until he recovers - a marvellous job he has done of them all too.  He travels everywhere with a dog - even flying.  Where would he be if he was refused a dog because he couldn't drive.  

>

> Would joint ownership be a possibility in your situation? Or do you think she just won't be able to cope with a puppy any more?

She doesn't live close enough to me for me to help with actual training and care of the dog. It would have to be a joint owner in name only. And while I will take back a puppy at any age and with any training problems I just don't want to let a pup go to a situation where it is almost a certainty that I will have to have it back. And from what I have heard from her relatives she is having some difficulties with the other dog so adding a new puppy is not going to make the situation any better. :( I just wish there was a way to make her admit to herself that having a puppy is not sensible rather than me having to be the bad guy and refusing to let her have one.

I think that with driving, it's the same as everything else.  I would need to meet each individual case and decide from there.
I have refused someone who didn't drive.  Not just for that reason but he wanted me to meet him at the station which is not even a mile away and when I told him I couldn't, He asked me how he was going to get to my house then.  Not a walker, I decided.

As for an age Limit? How awful!!! I know more people who have died young and unexpectedly than of old age!
I recently sold a pup to a lady of a certain age who lives alone.  I meet her sometimes for walks with the puppy(Who is now a lumbering adolesent!) and she is coping great.  Spoils him rotten.  And she has plans in action should anything ever happen to her.  Her niece helps care for the pup and would take him and if she couldn't for any reason, he comes back here to stay.  I'm actually hoping her niece couldn't cos I've grew to completely regret letting him go!

Every case should be decided on it's own merit instead of a blanket ban.

That is fantastic Merrypaws, I'm really pleased for you. :-) And yes your pup has all the pluses of you having time and patience to give him/her a really good home and you have thought about everything carefully.

Alas many don't, and do not even discuss things with their families which is another reason why rescues have many older dogs in their kennels looking for new homes, bless them, I've often seen dogs with owner passed, or too ill to care for dog. as their reason for being there.

My mother is almost 80 now and has 7 dogs, she is fit and does a lot of activities with her dogs, but I know my brothers and I have the burden and it is a burden of if anything happens to her in having to have her dogs, whether it is 7 or 1 dog it is still hanging over our heads, and in one hand it is nice that we all support each other and our dogs welfare but in another it means that other people's dogs become our responsibility.

If I had a 70 year old neighbour who had just got a pup I would just be happy for her as I am anyone else with a dog whether 30, 50, 60 or 80, I love dogs and I love to see others enjoying them no matter what age or disability, but that's because the 'potential' responsibility is not on me........... If my mother got another pup I'd be livid, my head would be steaming.

I'm the same with my pups, their lives are on me, if things go wrong I have to pick up the pieces so rightly or wrongly I do everything I can to limit the damage and hopefully find those long term homes, I have absolutely nothing against anyone having a dog no matter what age, I dare say there are 90 year olds fitter than me and I hope my posts have not made anyone think that, not my intention.

For purely selfish reasons I have my cut off point for me.......... Retired people certainly can be better owners for a dog than anyone else.

iv only had 1 family come to see pups that didnt drive ,i still let them have a pup they came on the train took them afew hours to get here we spoke alot on the phone and her brother was bringing them to collect pup ,it fell thru we took pup and very happy to this was a perfect family so having a car so no problem at all :)

I have just taken on a new rescue "pup" - he is 14 months old and an active breed. I did think long and hard about taking him on as I will be at least 70 when he reaches old age - other dogs are 8 and 6. I do compete in agility so at the moment lead an active life and I walk miles and miles with the dogs each week as well as attending 3 different training  clubs and spending a lot of weekends at shows. I have a terrier - who moved out with my daughter when she moved into a house of her own - a GR who is very active and competes at agility- and my new rescue is a working sheep dog who has not had a great start in life.

I work in a school so have the holidays at home and I live right next door to where I work so the dogs are never left for more than three hours at a time. I spoke to other agility people who are around my age and none of them could see a problem with me taking him on and growing old together but it was something I did consider at great length before making my decision.

None of us can tell what life is going to throw our way - I had always thought we would have dogs up until we retired and then would probably want to be spending our retirement out and about more so wouldn't get any more dogs once we no longer had our current ones. Sadly things changed and my OH was diagnosed with a terminal illness and died a few years ago so my travelling plans aren't going to happen and now the majority of my free time is taken up by the dogs and doing agility which I really enjoy. If anything happened to me my GR would go to live with my daughter alongside the terrier and my WSD would return to the lady who fostered him so I do have plans in place that hopefully will never need to be called into action.

When you live by yourself it is different to having someone else to share the load and this dog will be the last young one I take on because there is essentially only myself available for the day to day care of the dogs I have now. Maybe I might consider an older dog in the future but I really don't know at this moment in time. The one thing I have learned is that however well laid our plans are there are never any guarantees that life will turn out how you think it might - and life changing circumstances can happen at any age. Maybe "older" people are more likely to have thought about plans for their dogs' future as they realise there is the possibility of our dogs outliving us whereas younger people tend to think they will live for ever lol.

My Dad is still fixing his and all the families cars at 79, lying on the cold groudn and having to handle cold metal parts.

I'd say very few people active in my breed are much under 50.

> (from 70 upwards we are elderly whether we like it or not and the dog would only be 10 years or even younger then)

This depresses me greatly - under current rules I won't get my state pension until I'm 66 so I'll only have 4 years of retirement before I'm elderly! :-)
Mind you some people are 'elderly' at 45 while others are 'young' at 80 :-)

I won't reach retirment age until I am 68!

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">his depresses me greatly - under current rules I won't get my state pension until I'm 66 so I'll only have 4 years of retirement before I'm elderly! <img alt=":-)" src="/images/default/sml_pos.png" class="sml" /><br />Mind you some people are 'elderly' at 45 while others are 'young' at 80

The same for me Marion. My dad is 85, does all his own gardening - front garden alone is over 100 feet long, grows all his own vegetables- attends line dancing twice a month, walks each and every footpath in the parish to ensure they are accessible and clears them if not to name just a few of his activities. I too know some people who are far less active in their early thirties but on paper would seem a better bet for owning a dog. Unfortunately as the vetting process usually takes place in the first instance by the written word maybe some of the "elderly" homes might be discounted due to the age of the owner - and I can see why Carrington might weed these people out in her efforts to do the best for her dogs- but there are some great homes out there to be given by us older people. Maybe older owners should make breeders aware of their contingency plans - or maybe everyone applying to get a dog should outline what would happen under those circumstances. I see far more young dogs with younger owners advertised as needing a new home due to "change in family circumstances"  than those who have owners who can no longer manage due to their age or the death of an owner.

I do understand Carrington's thinking, but it is fortunate not everyone feels the same :)  When I approached the breeder of my current Golden nearly five years ago, I was 63 and I asked her if she had a concern about my age. Her reply was not at all - she was of a similar age too! Tragically, she passed away a year or so later. I am so very grateful to her and her attitude and that I have my lovely girl.

Well now, in 2 yrs I shall be elderly :( I feel quite depressed too, because I didn't know until I read this thread!!   :)

You must be younger than me then Barbara :-) By the time I get there they will have moved the goal posts again and I'll end up retiring at 75 with a pension of tuppence ha'penny ;-)

I think that is absolutely ridiculous!! I do not have access to my own car and my dog is very well exercised and actually I am within walking distance of my local vets.

If I was a breeder, and I was selling pups I think a part of me would be over the moon that a dog wasn't being driven everywhere in a car. I see many owners drive to the beach/whatever, open the boot, let the dog run around with minimum walking from the owner. They're not on a proper walk with their owner, they are simply being exercised (if that makes sense.)

I can't think of a better way to socialise a pup than having to use public transport!

> I think that is absolutely ridiculous!!

Yes i thought the same Josh - and to answer questions arising during the thread, the person concerned already has dogs and the epilepsy isn't too severe! Maybe it was, as someone suggested, a get-out clause for the breeder who maybe wasn't sure, but more tact was definitely required if so!

If I did have  car, the only advantage would be that I could get to other walks and places to explore, but not on a daily basis - plus I'd be able to find more accessible agility and training classes. Oh yeah and go to more dog shows to spectate...

I didn't drive when I had our first highly active dog and we lived in a city.  I totally agree with Goldmali:

>socialisation was FAR FAR better as my pups had no other choice but to get used to buses from day one! That is one thing I would say has most definitely NOT been improved by having a car available.

I used to take the train and the bus everywhere, and I travelled far to get to the best classes.  I remember entering an Open show I got to by train, then a walk through a village and across a field.  I would exercise the dog usually in parks nearby, and I did loads of training because just 'walking' meant you ran out of park grounds quite quickly.  I would also take the train out to the country and walk the dog there sometimes. 

I had a fantastic bond with that dog as a result of all this, and she ended up extremely well socialised to people and public transport.

I'd have no probs with a pup going to home when the people didn't drive - but like all things - I'd want to know that they'd thought about it and made provision for how they are going to exercise the dog.  If someone didn't drive, lived in an urban area with no parks nearby and without access to public transport, and they wanted a high energy breed, I'd definitely be a bit worried.  If someone had clearly thought about it all and had a plan for how to meet the dog's needs, that would be absolutely fine.

o crikey thats me written off then! I have 3 dogs one 6 year old one 2 year old and a 4 year old. I am 58 ! on the basis that my 4 year old should live to her middle teens if i am lucky and the other 2 hopefully around 10 + thats goodby to me having any more pups then or does that include rescue adults as well if the rescues think in a similar way

Sadly I'm inclined to think that there a lot of idiotic breeders out there. To discount a good home because the potential owner doesn't drive ... or could equally be the potential owner lives in a flat, or maybe the potential owner is in a wheelchair, etc, etc, is just, well, idiotic! If it's a good home, it's a good home.

I understand what you're saying Carrington (and you're not ruling out the over 60s having a dog, just not a puppy). When my mum got her Boxer (she's a first time Boxer owner), she was 75, had had both knees replaced and just cracked her shoulder because her existing dog pulled her over! I think the breeder was barmy to sell her the dog (still do) but then mum only really wanted the dog because the breeder was a friend of a friend of my brother. The breeder didn't know my mum and didn't live anywhere near enough to do a home check and mum knew nothing about Boxers. To my mind he is a dog who is bored out of his skull (not enough exercise/stimulation) but my mum would tell you that she thinks the world of him. I also have great reservations about selling to people who smoke - I hate to think that this filthy habit could be forced on my own puppy (unless the smoker goes outside each and every time, not very practical if they are driving lol).

I also understand what the OP said about epilepsy. As someone who has owned 2 epileptic dogs (and had to have one put down this time last year aged just 5 after 71 fits in 18 months), if the condition occurred on a regular basis it is not something I would want one of my pups to live with. As you say, we all have our own criteria and are entitled to it. If people don't like it, they can look elsewhere as we have our dogs welfare to consider, now and in the future.