Hi,
i am having a bad week! my rottie girl aged 5 has been crying out on the odd occasion when she moved quick, 5 days of rimadyl improved her loads and things settled and the yelling stopped. 2 weeks later it randomly started up again and i noticed she seemed stiff in her neck. off to the vets and confirmed neck pain and stiffness, rimadyl injection and back the next day for poss xrays. next morning vet was happy she had improved and was moving her neck better, another jab and back the next day again. Well that afternoon she started to cross her back legs under her as she walked and as the day progressed she got more wobbly. By 9:30pm she couldnt stand at all, no use of all four legs. phoned my vet to tell him what had happened from this morning to the evening, he told me to give her more pain relief and in for xrays in the morning. xrays yesterday indicated disc problems in the neck. he isnt keen to rush into surgery as so many dogs can do well and make a recovery (even if not 100%) with anti-inflammatories, cage rest and lots of time...6-8weeks so we are seeing what the next few days upto a week will show...if there is small signs of improvement we will keep going. She is painful but not crying out at all so its being controlled to some degree. she can not stand at all but has full feeling in her legs and full bladder control as she is holding herself trying not to pee in the house bless her heart.
i would love to hear from anyone who has had experience with disc damage and outcomes of recovery or not with conservative treatment and how long did different dogs take to shows any signs that things may improve. becasue its high in her neck all four legs are affected and it is so upsetting to see her like this :(
A few days ago my other rott was diagnosed with diabetes insipidus so it never rains but it pours!

Hi Mandy. Sorry to hear about your girl and I wish her a full and speedy recovery. 3 years ago my cocker spaniel Alfie ruptured a disc in his back approximately at the T12 level. I had been throwing a frisbee for him when his back legs went wobbly. He was hunched up and could walk, though not a normal walk. He couldnt lift his leg to pee and would fall. we were at my vet within 25 mins and he was given an anti inflammatory pain killer and carprodyl to take home. Was told rest and restriction etc and given contact details for a spinal specialist orthopedic surgeon if I wasnt happy within 48 hours. Well when it comes to my dogs, I am a worrier so we went to see the specialist 2 days later. Luckily he is a world expert. He told me there are 5 grades of rupture with 5 being the most severe. Alfie, he said, was a 2. To me it was a 10! No surgery required, strict crate rest which was modified to single room rest as he hated the crate. Two five minute walks a day for 4 weeks. I think it is a very positive thing that your girl has bladder and bowel control. But I think it would be very worthwhile to see a vet who specialises in treating disc ruptures as they can recur. Alfie had a slight relapse last autumn at the same level but nowhere near as severe. The recovery time for the first occurance was roughly 5 to 6 months. The second time was only a week. If I can answer any more questions, please ask away.

I feel for you-One of my clumbers suffered badly with disc problems for his whole life. He started at age 2 with a disc high in the neck like your girl. Initially his hunched posture suggested a problem with his abdomen (he was so mild mannered full examinations didn't produce any response to pain) but once diagnosed we tried cage rest and anti inflammitories. X rays showed that it sadly required surgery but after being warned they wouldn't even attempt to get him on his feet for three days they called the next morning and said he was standing in his kennel howling to come home. He spent 3 weeks on cage rest and my mum fashioned some slings to support his trips to the garden as his back legs would cross over and his feet would knuckle. It took probably six months before he walked completely normally and we went back to showing. He remained on a very low maintenance dose of rimadyl otherwise would have pain and would start to knuckle over on his back left foot. Aged about 4 1/2 he started to have problems with two discs about midway down his spine and had a period of cage rest and an increase in medication,followed by some hydrotherapy to improve the mobility in his back legs. He was such a stoic fellow and never complained when he was clearly in pain,or bored of being in a crate! I used to take him out in the car to sit and watch the world go by. He had another full rupture aged about 6. They had initially said he would never be able to have surgery twice but he recovered so well the first time that they went ahead. He recovered much more quickly,independently walking without support within a week. From that time on he would occasionally knuckle over his back foot when tired (and not notice until I turned it back) and stayed on a maintenance dose of rimadyl (half to a whole tablet with his evening meal depending on his activity level and the weather),with an extra one if he had been exercising more. After his first problem I always carried him up and down steps/on off the sofa/in out the car,avoided walking on steep hills,kept his weight in check and luckily he didn't pull but never pulled him by his collar/lead. I know rimadyl is not for everyone,and definitely not widely suggested for long term use but my boy stayed generally well with a good quality of life until he suddenly developed a liver tumour aged 11y 11m. im no expert but in my experience i would say give her time and encourage her where possible to use her legs (even with support). I'm keeping everything crossed for you.

I think it was 18 months or more that my SIL's lab ruptured a disc and she was crossing front and back legs trying to get about, she was very unstable and was forever being knocked over by her other dog. She wasn't operated on and had a lot of crate rest. Her recovery was very slow but when I saw her recently she'd really improved, her gait isn't perfect but she can pull like a train on the lead.

thanks for the replies. tramadol has her much more comfortable tonight. she still has full control over her bladder and feeling in all her legs but no movement or strength. my question i wanted to add was she is peeing (controlled) but hasnt poo'd since tuesday morning. what are peoples experiences on that side of it too as im worried she wont be able to pass faeces? Im am so distressed by it all its a horrendous thing to see them go through and not knowing if it will all be worth it in the end :(

When my boy did this I had to manually help him to empty his bladder and bowels - there are places you need to press to encourage evacuation. Unfortunately despite our best efforts for several weeks there was no improvement at all and we made the awful decision to let him go. :-( I sincerely hope you have a better outcome because it's such an awful thing.

Yes Mandy, our eldest has suffered from two. Firstly after an attack, back legs left wobbly, crossing, degenerating over a couple of days to paralysis behind shoulders, luckily he retained bladder & bowel control. Specialist diagnosed ruptured disc into spinal column, given 8 weeks to see if he might recover, could just about balance with assistance if legs placed but any movement they buckled & he keeled over. Left him with the specialist, four days latter he was found standing early one morning, was meant to stay for complete rest but got thrown out for bad behaviour (howling & baying). Then 18 months ago walking back from an uneventful walk it became apparent he was far from well, slowly pacing, just managing to put one foot in front of the other, vet diagnosed back problems, told to cage him (didn't, but did keep him confined), took him to see his chiropractor, vet far from pleased, little pain relief given - the occasional 1/2 rimadyl - as he became to active. Eventually after many weeks & little improvement visited the specialist again, MRI, whooper of a prolapsed disc in his middle back. Specialist rather surprised at his mobility levels & told to take him home. Neither time was he caged, specialist advised if paralysed obviously yes, but if managing to stand & walk it's better to confine & keep quiet, taken outside for toilet breaks on lead. He has some nerve damage down his right side & is a little light footed on his rear right (we call it the floppy foot syndrome like John Thaw). Specialist praised us for our management & having them both checked regularly by their chiropractor but I think that we/he has just been very fortunate. He's 9 now, looks a little grey & stiff but back to a good level of fitness, still manages to run (slowly) & plays with a few friends. A dreadful time but very fortunate & a great specialist who is still at the end of the phone should we have any concerns. Wishing you & your girl all the very best.
As for bowels when he was paralised, I can't remember if when assisting him with a towel he managed but certainly he didn't at the specialist until he was standing & didn't when they first took him out, when told about this, asked if they would take him again & ask him 'to be busy' & bless him he managed.

Has she been eating Mandy?

I am not putting this on to worry you more, but my springer had a bit of pain between her shoulder blades but we thought her arthritis was playing up, this became noticeable when her bag legs went wobbly and she was hunched, she had full bladder control, and could poop ok though not as good and she got constipated. She improved slightly with cortisone but within days could not stand on back legs, they just collapsed but she she could still feel her feet etc.
It came to the point very quickly MRI was required and specialist said it was more than likely a disc and he could fix but sadly the MRI showed a tumour pressing on her spinal cord between shoulder blades that was growing quick in the last week. She had metastasise on her lungs also.
None of this showed on X-ray, all bloods were normal, she was eating drinking normally and it was the last morning only that she had an accident as couldn't get up. She was nearly 12 so as nothing could be done we let her sleep forever.
As said I don't want to make you worry more but if no improvement then go for MRI and double check. Lots of ££££ but for us it was the only option as vet couldn't diagnose and we couldn't leave her as she couldn't stand and looked incredibly sad and must have been in more pain than she ever let on despite tramodol and rimadyl.

Really hope you see some improvement, paws crossed for you.

Thanks for all the replies. On Saturday i felt Mel was in too much pain and nothing was helping her, she was referred as an emergency to dick white in cambridge. MRI showed a very severe slipped disc that had exploded into her spinal cord and twisted and lodged, surgery was her only chance and that she may need 2 procedures :(  she went straight to surgery and the surgeon was pleased with how it went. she is now in hospital for 1-2 weeks if she recovers. we have to wait 3-4 days now before we will know if a second op is needed. Please god she recovers after going through so much....We are not insured and her bill is currently £6000, which will increase to around £10000 if a second op is needed! she was so painful and so frightened when i left her on her hospital bed....i sobbed when i left as i just didnt know what they were going to find. Now we wait and hope that my baby girl will be ok and home with me very soon x

Keeping everything crossed for your girl.

Hope she doesn't need the second op, I know money isn't always the issue but when you talking that amount it must be a factor and very scary.

yeah very scary indeed. They are letting me pay over 10 months but thats still £600 a month, then my other rott who was also diagnosed with diabetes last week is £200 a month for her daily injections so all in all thats alot to find a month......but for me there is NO alternative......they mean the world to me.....and dont the vets know it! :)

Thinking of you,awful worry,lets hope the first op is sucessful,my girl also has disc problems but she is comfortable at the moment with meds ect.

Sheila xx

Well Mel still cant stand :(   She had surgery on saturday and there has been no change in her neurological status. Her pain however is under control and she is comfortable and eating and drinking. the vets are happy to give her more time and are saying its very early days which i know it is but i cant help thinking 'what if after all this that she has been through she doesnt improve' worried sick about my girl :(

Would you be able to have her home as it really does speed up the healing process ?

I can imagine how upsetting this for you :-( x

i would be more than happy to have her home but they want her to stay in for a minimum of week, she also has a catherter as she holds herself all day trying not to pee and they dont want her to get a UTI through not urinating regularly. I'm going to chat to him in the morning and see what he says again about her coming home or if they think me visiting will be good or bad for her....my concern there is leaving her again which may upset her all over again :(

We had a cat that had a horrific injury sustained where she had her bottom and upper jaw shattered. ( we think it was a deliberate attack :-( )

They vets did a brilliant job in putting her back together but with all the care whilst she was in ( over a week) she showed no signs of wanting to move or eat.

I decided that enough was enough and she would come home and what ever happened would be. She was very poorly and weak.

Within half an hour of being home and put in a crate she went and had a drink of rehydrating water in her bowl and ate half a bowl of wet food. She was on a drip and was being hand fed.

Within 12 hours she was alert and wandering around the crate.

I know that the op is totally different but I do believe the stress at being at the vets after a big trauma sometimes can really affect some animals badly.

Any update on your girl Mandy?

Devastated.....10 days post op and no improvement at all, please please can i have anyone's experience of recovery time frame after surgery as my vet has told me to start thinking about pts! is this too early to think about this as i have read of dogs that have been paralyzed for weeks but slowly recover....i dont expect a quick recovery but if she has a chance i cant give up not after everything she has just been through....absolutely distraught as i type this :(

Mandy, I am so so sorry for you both. All cases are different, but when our boy was paralysed the specialist told me not to give up hope till around 7 weeks. As I said all cases are different, personally have found our vet to be far more cautious & negative than the specialist.

If your girl is being kept pain free and you are managing with her, toileting  etc, and she is eating and looking not too sad then keep going for a while longer.
If on the other hand she looks miserable and in pain which doesn't seem to be improving then I suppose you have to ask what is best for her.
Did you bring her home? You could try this if not, as long as you can give all the care she needs then give it ago.
What does the specialist say?
Hope there is a glimmer of improvement soon for you.

Very difficult but I do think having her home and being able to look after her and she is no pain would be the next step then see how she goes. How old is she Mandy ?

I am going to bring her home and see how things go over the next week. she is 5

Good luck.  I was so lucky with my boy having such dramatic and quick recoveries but I know it can take weeks with some individuals. I would keep going if you can and she is relatively comfortable. Have you been advised on physio etc?

yes they are showing me what physio she has been having tommorrow before i bring her home. they have said she doesnt seem to be in pain so i am clinging to the hope that she is just not happy in there and has no motivation to try, she has never spent a day in the vets in her life so these past 10 days will have been tough on her. she has deep pain sensation, can very mildly move her back legs, can wag her tail and has bladder control so i feel it is too early after surgery to give up on her if she isnt in serious pain. if she had no feeling at all that would be different but i feel there is a glimer of hope and after all she has been through i think she needs to come home and be loved and just wait and see what happens in the next week or so. lets hope she is just going to have a very slow recovery...i do know of a couple of dogs that were paralyzed for 4-6 weeks and still gained enough function to get about for a good quality of life.....thats all i want for my girl

Have you got a really quiet area where you are going to put her and a place where she can perhaps see outside as that will give her a place to start to perhaps get her interest back at a slow pace rather than with the other dogs pestering her too much as remaining calm and taking things slowly will be so important.

I bet you can't want to get her home.

yes i have a quiet space and she can see out in the garden, will be able to see a couple of the other dogs but they wont be able to get to her so she doesnt feel vunerable. im sooo upset, been awake half the night thinking about bringing her home and the vet rang this morning to say he hadnt taken her catherter out yesterday so now it wont be until tommorrow as we need to know she can urinate :(((((  im not coping to well with this and am so stressed out but am trying to stay strong as she is going to need me when she does come home, i just hope i am not putting her through anymore stress for it to come to nothing but if she isnt in pain i have to give her time to see if she can improve....the not knowing is just agony.

I don't have any experience with this but I would do exactly the same in your position.

Ten days is no sort of recovery time for such a major injury and surgery, there is likely to still be quite a lot of swelling internally and the spine is so sensitive to the slightest thing.  She is a young dog, well medicated and as others have said will be much happier at home which will aid recovery.  I'm sure you're very stressed ((hugs)) but dogs are very accepting of their situations and a few weeks of restricted mobility will be forgotten in a wag of a tail.

Wishing you all the best
Mel

Thanks Mel, i really hope and pray that being at home can make a difference to her recovery, i will be beyond devastated if she never regains any function in her legs after putting her through so much :(
Coincidentaly my little girl is called Mel too

Well when she is at home, in her own familiar surroundings, she will hopefully begin to improve. I just dread anything happening my dogs as they are my babies. This forum is great just simply because everyone here has such love for their dogs and can relate to stressful situations. I would do exactly as you are doing. Her best chance is at home and thete will be no regrets.

Is she home yet and any better? Hope so.

We have a springer who had this surgery two years ago, his came on very quickly, he jumped in to the car and was fine, after a 20 minute journey he was was unable to move at all, we were on holiday in Somerset so rushed him to the nearest vets, the vet referred us straight to Bristol, where he was scanned that night and operated on the next day.

There was no improvement for 7 days, and he only brightened up when we visited, becoming withdrawn and refusing to go to the toilet when we left, so he had to be catheterised, on the seventh day we asked if he could come back with us to our caravan, vets weren't too keen on the idea mainly because they were worried about him refusing to wee even though he had control of his bladder, and because he was going to be high maintenance but we insisted on the understanding we'd come back the next day for checks.

Once we were back at the caravan he started going to the loo with me carrying and holding him in the position, after awhile I realised he was happier if I lay him on his side and walked away while he did his business, it meant he had to be washed after every toilet break, but that was a small price to pay for him going when he needed too.

After ten days he started to try and roll himself around when outside on grass, then once upright he would start trying to drag him self weakly with his front feet, progress was very slow, but after three weeks he could stand unsupported, if a little wobbly, but would fall over if he tried to move, a month after surgery he could walk short distances but would collapse if he took it too fast.

As I said progress was very slow, and after 6 months he was able to run, often collapsing in a heap if he tried to stop or turn to quickly, and he was till knuckling on his front legs quite a lot.

He had a 24 month check up recently and the vet remarked she would never guessed that he'd had the surgery, although after exercise he does tend to be a little wobbly on the pins, and his left side isn't as strong as his right side so he avoids jumping and always goes around obstacles.

In my experience, I'd say have her home, I'm sure she'd be happier there and recover quicker.

she came home last thursday, by sunday she hadnt pee'd or poo'd so off to the vets sunday morning as i wasnt willing to wait any longer, vet sent her home again as he scanned her bladder and said it wasnt dangerously large. got home and 10 mins later she pee'd...thank god for that!
It will be 3 weeks since surgery on saturday and there isnt much improvement. she is alot happier in herself and there is no pain but her legs really dont do much still. she has more strength in her back legs than her front.
im doing physio 3 times a day and massage too. she has to do her business where she is and then have a bed bath as thats the only way she will do it, like you robert i walk away from her and she does it when im not there bless her she obviously doesnt want to do it indoors.

she can flip herself from one side to the other and can get herself from lateral to sternal position now from both sides which she could only manage with help from her left side before so there has been tiny little improvements but they really are tiny. her neck movement is better and she will push herself forward with her back legs too, but her front legs are still quite stiff and movement is much more restricted.

i feel i should keep going with her recovery and although it is very small improvement over 3 weeks the fact that there is SOME improvement gives me hope she may walk again one day (albeit a long road ahead and maybe not fully functional) but if she has a quality of life and is happy and pain free then thats good enough for me and mel. just hope that she will get there as it is beyond heartbreaking to see her so disabled :(

Thanks for all the replies and messages

So glad to hear there are signs of improvement,small as they are. Your girl sounds like she is trying her best and is much happier at home. Wishing you every continued success however long it takes.

Thank you clumberjack, i really hope we get her on her feet again eventually

Just an update....During mel's physio yesterday, when i stood her up in her harness and sling she took her own weight!!!! only for 30 seconds but i was so excited i nearly cried :) please god she will continue to go from strength to strength.

Fabulous news!!

Great news:-) . All fingers and paws crossed here for your girl

Great news, so pleased for you both. Keep up the good work Mel.

JUST AN UPDATE....

Mel regained the abilty to walk and even have a little run, was happy, pain free but a little wobbly and un-cordinated....

That was until last week, she started with neck pain again and then limping on her front right, exactly the same signs as before, she is now weaker and weaker and knuckling over yesterday, today not able to walk unaided :(
Im really praying that this is a slight blip and with meds and rest and time things will settle back down again as i will not put her through a second surgery as the first one was so so tough on her as explained in my previous posts.

would love to hear from people who had surgery that was successful then to relapse and the outcome of that without a second surgery if anyone has had this experience.....havent slept properly in days as i am so so worried for my girl she had done amazing and now its starting all over again :( devastated

So glad you have posted an update, I was only wondering the other day how you were getting on.  Hopefully you are right and it is just a blip, I can't offer any advice I am afraid as my boy had surgery a second time (though it was some time later) as he had done so well after the first surgery.