My dog has now been used twice on 2 different maiden bitches. Both time he failed to produce pups. I instantly withdrew him from stud but I have had a few people suggest I have a fertility test done on him, just to make absolutely certain. I must admit, his genes are well worth passing on and it is a great shame that he didn't make pups, but personally I can't see how the result would come back as anything but low or none. I did promise I would at least look into it, so here I am.

Can anyone tell me anything about the test, where to get it done, etc. He wouldn't perform at the vets where I initially thought it had to be done, but apparently thats not the case. And does anyone else agree its a complete waste of time?

Not sure where you live but speak to this lady, she does sperm testing:- http://www.dogsworldwide.com/images_ovulation.htm

Had these girls been ovulation tested?  I would also suggest trying him on a bitch who has produced a litter previously.

Good luck

I had my lad checked out at Fit n Fertile in Preston, it cost £40, they contacted me when they knew they would have a teaser bitch in to get a better result.

I had a bitch who I was having problems getting pregnant, he had been used one of the 4 attempts and as this was her last go I wanted to make sure I had a fertile stud.

Fertility can be affected temporarily by illness or medication or it could be the bitches timing was off, had they been confirmed to have ovulated by bloods etc.?  Did you do 2 matings 48 hrs apart to increase the chances?

Hope he isn't firing blanks.

The first bitch was mated 3 times over 5 days, as she was local, but no blood test. The second had the blood test done, and was mated twice, 24 hours apart, as she lived a long way away and had to stay overnight. No illness or medication either.

I'm in Kent. I've tried Googling it but all I got was human ones lol. Trouble is, no one is going to want to travel to use a dog who has failed twice. Feel like I've let a lot of people down. :(

I still can't find a single place to do it, and can't see where the lady Ells-Bells linked to is based.

Have you tried canine AI centres, they collect and test semen before freezing/shipping/using, they may help

Doesn't look like they do, they just freeze it.

There is a place in Surrey....
http://www.ukclone.co.uk/
Paula xx

Thanks Paula. Everywhere talks about the dog being handled during the procedure, but mine wont be until the tie. So not sure it'll work. :( I was hoping there another way.

I have seen this done before but not in this place so they may have different ways, its simple and to be honest the dog is so interested in the "tease" bitch that they don't usually care that you are holding him and someone is catching the important stuff in a bag ;-)
give them a call and ask how they do the procedure.
Paula xx

I was hoping there another way.

That's conjoured up a picture of a fairy with a magic wand for me! :) :) :)  What do you think they do? :) :) :)

If the bitches hes mated have been anywhere near a person, he walks away, just wont have then being held. They can't be held until they tie. He certainly wouldn't even look at a bitch in a strange place that was like a vets, however ready and willing she was.

Sedation and a syringe sounds good to me!

Oh bless. :)  I've not seen that done before but I hope that you can find someone to help. :)

Am looking online for a fairy now hhahahaa

the way they get a semen sample is for a vet to manually stimulate the dog in the presence of an in season bitch, or even one sprayed with pheremone if no in season bitch available, so that there is more likely to be excitement to get a good sample.

Have a look here. Not sure how near this is to you but I've heard excellent recommendations about them.
http://www.vetrepro.co.uk/ai.html
Hope you can get it resolved :)

Val is in Haywards Heath

I took one of my dogs to my normal vet, he sent a sample away, only took a couple of days for results, also did a quick check under microscope himself and said motality was fine, cant remember how much it was but not a lot,  and it was quick and simple,

I have use Innovis near Edinburgh a couple of times for different dogs. I must admit to having a good laugh with the vet as it is being done - you do need a sense of humour ;-)

My boy had been mated a couple of times with no pups, unfortunately he was sterile. I have semen stored from his brother now so I hope to use it in the future. I do hope your dog is not sterile, it's heartbreaking when you spend years breeding up a line and studying pedigrees, then to find out that it could all go to waste :-(

Where in the country are you? That would help us to recommend. I can recommend 4 places :-D

I don't think a fertility test is a waste of time. My oldest boy sired some litters, then mated twice with no pups, so that obviously sent alarm bells ringing. On testing we found he had become sterile for reasons I'm not going to go into here. So I bought one of his sons to take over his father's duty - the line of breeding had been many years in the planning. This first time around I had him tested at Fit and Fertile then went to Croft in Newcastle for all the tests only veterinary specialists could do - the important thing was to check that he was fully fit and healthy.

I double checked he was still as he was at the beginning of last year, sadly he was still infertile. However, I am extremely relieved that I did have him tested as it highlighted a health issue. He was tested at Fit and Fertile, Preston. Keith is NOT a vet, however, he could tell me that all wasn't quite as it should be, so I instantly drove straight to my vet. Turned out to be a prostate problem, all now fully sorted. Had I not have taken him for fertility testing I may not have known about this until it had become a lot more serious. So, yes, I would say it's worth spending money to get him checked over. Someone's already said, Fit & Fertile were around £40, if you go to fertility specialists it will be considerably more ... the first time around I did that as I was concerned there may be bigger underlying health issues.

The specialists I went to were Croft Vets in Newcastle who were excellent http://www.croft-reproduction.co.uk/.
The others I'd recommend - Susan Long, can't for the life of me remember off hand her practice, just outside Bristol, but she was/is on staff at Bristol Uni - didn't see but had many communications with (fortunately a friend of a friend) but I've an inkling Brainless may know of her ... hope she pops on!
Also Angelika von Helmendahl at http://www.vetrepro.co.uk/ in Cambridge came highly recommended by someone else who has needed to see her.

Hope this all helps.

If you go the testing route, it is so much easier if you can arrange a teaser bitch, I took one on each occasion ... sometimes it really is a case of asking around acquaintances and asking if you can borrow their girly for the day - I had to on one of the 3 occasions!! Took a bit of explaining :-D

Not had any dealings but Dr Susan Long's deatials can be found here: http://www.bris.ac.uk/vetscience/people/org/VESC scroll down.

Thank you everyone for your replies, very kind of you to take the time.

I'm in East Kent.

Don't know any in season bitches, all the bitches I know are neutered.

Good luck with it, I would offer my girl but she is a ratbag and we are in Lancashire!

Bit too far from Suffolk or I'd offer my girl currently on day 10! Mind you my (neutered) boy is completely uninterested so she might not be very attractive! :-p

:) Thank you all. Decided not to go down the fertility test route now, but continuing to offer him at stud preferably to proven bitches. Have been advised its a bit like throwing the baby out with the bathwater otherwise, as both bitches were maidens, and my boy has so much to offer, its worth keep trying. xxx

As a breeder, I find that to keep offering a dog that you suspect might be infertile at stud, is just plain dishonest. Making bitch owners loose time, and get false expectations regarding a litter for nothing is disgusting. It's disappointing to have a bitch miss, finding out it is because the stud owner has suspicions that the stud is infertile, and keeps offering the dog, but can't be bothered to take the dog to the vet to collect some sperm and do a lousy spermogram is beyond my comprehension...

Totally agree with Chillington - I would be furious if I had a wasted opportunity with my bitch all for the sake of a £40 test!  Have you not spoken to Val at Haywards Heath or even your vet?

I just hope you're honest with anyone who approaches you regarding your boy.

We used the Vet Repro service with our boy. Yes collection is very "hands on" with the dog's owner helping out,but she is very knowledgeable and happy to answer all your questions.
Personally I would want to know if there was a problem with my boy before using him again.

I'm being completely honest, it's on his stud advert, and there's no stud fee. If ppl want to take the chance its up to them. And its not 'can't be bothered', its knowing my dog. He will not perform anywhere he thinks is a vets, he'll turn to jelly. If they would do a mobile service it would be fine. Its also a long way from me, so it's added fuel costs.

Oh dear, fraid I'm with the other posters. You know there to be a problem (whatever that problem might be) yet you are still willing to offer this dog that has 'so much to offer' as available at stud, with no stud fee? I'm not sure what you're planning to gain from this. I also think you are missing the point that this might just be an indicator of more serious underlying problems. It might not, he may just be infertile. But, what if there is some sort of infection that has caused him to become infertile ... then in that case you could possibly be putting bitches at risk. If you know there is a problem then it is your duty to make the decision of either not using him at stud or having him checked out to ensure that he is not putting bitches at risk.

He is going in to the vets to have a check up, make sure there's no infection. Have already booked him in.

Have also got the number of the place in Surrey, going to chat to them tomorrow.

Serious breeders plan their lives around a litter maybe once every year or 2, we are on pins waiting for the right time and the season starting, no way after all that would they waste time with a stud that may be sterile, having had a bitch fail 4 times due to erratic ovulation and knowing how upset and disappointed I was I wouldn't consider using an outside stud that was unproven or one who hadn't proved himself in the past year now.

You may get BYB interested in giving it a go for no stud fee but that isn't the type of breeder you want to be associated with.

It was a breeder who suggested I try that, so I was following their advice, but I do see your point. I don't want to attract that sort of breeder.

I'm going to phone CloneUK in the morning, and see what they say. I do want him checked out anyway, to make sure everything is how it should be, so will change the vets appointment to one with them. I still don't think he'll allow them to take a sample, but I can only try.

Could you collect it from home then take it immediately to the vets?

Still need an in season bitch, which I don't have. I don't move in show dog circles, none of my nearby friends are breeders.

Am getting very confused now, can't seem to do right as keep being given conflicting advise. :(

CloneUK doesn't feel like a vet's surgery at all - talk to him and see what he says

Thank you. Will do, and thank you everyone for your advice and being so kind. Do you know if they provide the bitch? Even if he wont play the game, I do want him checked out to make sure there's nothing wrong.

> and there's no stud fee

That's fine for those willing to take a chance (usually with a young bitch, such as the maidens he has missed to) but those of us with limited opportunity to get a litter from our girls (in the time available and spaced out to advantage), as the next season could be up to a year away, or wasted showing/working opportunities due to assuming a pregnancy likely, it is a big issue.

This is the reason that many bitch owners don't want to use an unproven dog, a dog that has already missed more than one bitch, or an older dog who hasn't sired for a while, it's a long time until the next opportunity.

Ask the gentleman at UKClone - he may be able to

Have spoken to a friend who has used him before, and she explained how he does it, so I feel a lot more hopeful. Going to ring them in the morning and make an appointment. :)

When we took Stan to the lady in Cambridgeshire she used one of her own bitches who wasn't in season. It seemed that just having the back end presented to him of an unfamiliar bitch and lots of praise from me (same as at an actual mating) was enough to get a collection.

This guy doesn't need a bitch there, apparently he is very skilled with his hands! :o

Just waiting for him to ring me back with an appointment.

Hope everything goes well for you and your boy and the results are positive :-)

Going this evening. They have one of their own bitches in season at the moment, so result!

And it's £85, so a weeks wages, plus going to be a 3.5 hour round trip, so a lot of time and money. But at least I'll know.

Avert your eyes DarkStorm and think if a fairy with a magic wand!  Tee hee. :)

Oh  know, first time he was used was a big enough of a shock, no matter the research and advice you collect, nothing prepares you for that sight lol. I just hope he's able to collect a sample. I will report back with the news.

You are doing the right thing, I would not be happy someone advertising a stud who knows that there may be a problem.