I have two working breeds who require minimal grooming.  I have in the past had collies - both border and rough, who moulted and required a bit more in the way of grooming but I have never had to deal with a real long coated breed.  And I could do with some advise.

My OH has a shih tsu.  She gets regular baths, I comb and brush her to some extent most days.  She is also clipped about every 4 weeks.  I thought that would be enough to keep on top of her coat.  Until the other day when I was giving her a real good going over and found a lot of matting under her arms and down her legs.  I had to cut most of these out, although I thought there was loads it did not make a noticeable difference to her hair!  So she is now matt free and I would like to keep her that way.  Obviously brushing is going to be very important in this but to be honest I thought the groomers would get most of it when they clip her and it would not get chance to get as bad as it was.  Is there anything conditioner wise I should be using to help prevent them or to help me brush them out?  Bless her I did get a lot out with the comb but she was getting sore as it pulls!

I've found the best dematting/conditioning spray by far is Demelex,I use it in my grooming salon,its fantastic.Its not cheap but its well worth the cost.

Make sure you're getting right down to the skin with the comb, it's easy to think you are combing thoroughly, but with a long coated breed like this, you can easily be missing half of it. Start at the bottom of the feet, hold the top hair out of the way, and comb just the last centimetre or so of hair, making sure the teeth are starting at the skin, and work upwards. If there are matts, you may need to brush or cut them - if you're cutting matts out, try to cut down in the direction of hair growth to make long thin matts that can be brushed out more easily, rather than cutting across and leaving a big gap. Your groomer should be able to show you how to thoroughly comb the coat, and can also clip out the armpits and groin to make it easier. Now you know where the sneaky matts turn up, you'll probably catch them earlier! Also watch out for behind the ears and the bottom of the legs.

Please, please, please  

Before you bathe her, make sure to comb her out so that there are no knots or tangles.   When in the bath, just squeeze down the length of the coat and the dog/legs, don't rub the coat, then when drying her, don't rub her, wrap her in the towel and blot and squeeze the hair NO RUBBING   then finish with a hairdryer and a comb, using them both together, work in sections through the coat with a final comb through at the end.

By doing this, you will make life easier for yourselves and the dog.   Most mats arise from friction, as in under the legs and ears, but friction from the towel and bathing will also cause it ;-)    

If there are knots in the coat before bathing, they will be much worse afterwards ;-)

If you're not sure how to get through the coat with a comb (it's easier to show than to describe)  your groomer should be able to show you.

As others have said you need to be working through the coat from the root. I'd be concerned that the groomer isnt doing a thorough job as what you have described sounds bad for just 4 weeks between visits. I have heard stories of groomers that do a great job (or so it seems) of making the coat look good on the eye and on closer inspection underneath the top layer it is a shambles. Perhaps you could give the dog a good check over on return from the groomer and check all is well. Often you tube has good videos of this kind of thing. May be worth a look for some hints and tips of what you can do at home

General response to all.

First up thanks for the advice and the product recommendation I will try that for sure

The groomer comes to us but it is always during the day when I am not there.  (my OH works shifts)

Last time she was done was about 2 weeks ago so I am pretty sure all they do is run a set of clippers over her.  I am also reasonably sure I could do as good if not a better job with a bit of practise.  And I know for a fact that any inteference on my part will go down like a lead balloon with my OH.  Unless he decides the groomer is not doing a good job then he won't change.  So I need to keep an eye on this and keep on top of it myself now.

She is clipped pretty short so when I comb her body etc I know we get right in to skin, what I have been missing is groin, armpits and toes.  I did not realise the hair got so long or so profuse there.  If it were me clipping I would take it shorter not longer there.

As she is clipped her coat is not a terrific texture - I would prefer to have her in full coat and strip it personally but she is not my dog.

Her ears and tail are left long and full so I know to keep on top of those.

Thanks again and any more tips are very welcome!

Oh lord I hate to see them chopped like that like a pork sausage with a fluffy tail and Ears.

When I helped my friend with her very full coated spayed Goldie I use thinning scissors to shorten the hair in those typical knotting areas, armpits, inner thighs and behind ears.  I also cut the length of her feathering on legs etc, and then blended it to look more natural with thinning scissors,a nd I have never cut hair or groomed.

Before I started doing this she made the mistake of having a whole body clip.  She had asked for her cot to be thinned, and that is what she got back a virtually down to skin job, with just a fluffy head and feet.

Unfortunately what happened is that the areas that had been difficult before were exactly those that grew in even thicker, but of a candy floss texture.  It was awful and her back stayed sparse and bald in places for two years!!!

I kept at it thinning the feathers etc, and in two years she had her lovely flat nice textured coat back.

With long coated breeds like the Lhasa, Shi tsu, Tibetan Terrier, why can't the groomer just use a puppy cut to keep the coat a couple of inches all over.  Why because that takes a proper job, with scissors.  Nothing easier than running a clipper over a dog.

Lol pork sausage with fluffy legs, ears and tail!  It is something not a million miles from a puppy cut but it is just a clipper job for sure.  I strip my springers ears by hand and she looks great I have also had a lot of years grooming, trimming and clipping horses.  Only problem is my clippers are as big as the shih tsu!

With long coated breeds like the Lhasa, Shi tsu, Tibetan Terrier, why can't the groomer just use a puppy cut to keep the coat a couple of inches all over.  Why because that takes a proper job, with scissors.  Nothing easier than running a clipper over a dog.

That's it in a nutshell!  It takes little skill to run clippers over a dog but a lot more to scissor 2" all over into a puppy trim! 

At the very least ask the groomer to clip out the armpits, a hygiene strip and inside the back legs as it's safter to do that with clippers rather than scissors, then use a comb to groom the body and any furnishings that you might be lucky to be left with. :(

My friend has lhasa`s what she does to make it easyer the non showing ones she doesn't want to clipped off she cuts under and between there legs so it's less work but there coat is still full length. But she still has to combs them in layers all the time.

At one point she banned me from grooming her dogs as i did the opersit to what dill described, then she gave me a chi to brush and I thought an undercoat rake thing was a normal comb, I did wonder why so much fur was coming off lol.

>With long coated breeds like the Lhasa, Shi tsu, Tibetan Terrier, why can't the groomer just use a puppy cut to keep the coat a couple of inches all over.  Why because that takes a proper job, with scissors.  Nothing easier than running a clipper over a dog.

Problem is most owners don't seem able to keep up the brushing even when they are shown how to do it. Not a criticism of the OP who hasn't been shown and is trying to learn! I do a lot of shih tzus and lhasa with a 5/8 blade, it leaves the coat about an inch long so they still look cute and fluffy but the coat is manageable for an owner who only brushes once a week. Just had my group in who have to be done on the 5F as I just can't persuade the owner to come more often and he clearly doesn't brush properly between times. :-(

I just can't persuade the owner to come more often and he clearly doesn't brush properly between times. :-(

Having given my time for free a couple of times to teach the owner how to groom their dog thoroughly and explain how it's unfair to the dog to allow them to get matted, I would then give them choices.
1.  Groom them properly and come to me every 8 weeks for a thorough groom, trim and bath.
2.  Don't groom at home but come to me every 4 weeks for a thorough groom and the next 4 weeks for a full MOT.
3.  Don't groom them properly and find another groomer! :)

Hmm sounds more and more like what I already suspected with regards to the groomer.  The matts on my girl were more than a fortnight old. 

Nice little earner - total clip off every 4 weeks!

The fact that she doesn't clip out the friction and hygiene areas shows that her training is minimal or non-existant.

A good groomer should, when you collect your dog, explain why they have done what they've done and why.  If they dog has more than a couple of knots (I would still keep the knots to show the owner what I've removed!) then I would demonstrate on the well groomed dog the correct way to handle the coat and let the owner do it before they go home.

I have to say that whilst my experience is only sorting out what mobile groomers have messed up, I have yet to find a moblie groomer who, IMO, does a good job. :(

Unfortunately anyone can buy a pair of clippers and put an advert in the local paper and call themselves a dog groomer.  As with all things dog, its buyer beware and whether you're buying a puppy or looking for a groomer/boarding kennel/ trainer there is MUCH research to be done. :(

>Having given my time for free a couple of times to teach the owner how to groom their dog thoroughly and explain how it's unfair to the dog to allow them to get matted, I would then give them choices.

1.  Groom them properly and come to me every 8 weeks for a thorough groom, trim and bath.
2.  Don't groom at home but come to me every 4 weeks for a thorough groom and the next 4 weeks for a full MOT.
3.  Don't groom them properly and find another groomer!

The people in your area seem much more amenable to training - I currently have a full client base, but if I started issuing ultimatums like that, I don't think I'd have many clients left. :-D

People are people wherever they live - it's me that's different Lucy! :)  lol

I had 9 other groomers of varying ability (including a Groomer of the Year) within a 10 mile radius.  I wanted a full diary but I wanted dogs who I was proud to walk out of my parlour and who would advertise my skills and bring me more owners who wanted their dogs to look like the breed standard not shaved sausages.  My owners would come in every 4 or 8 weeks so that I was busy summer and winter and not just at Spring clip off time. :(  If owners just wanted a clip off, then I'd happily give them the phone numbers of one of the others in the area and my diary was full of the sort of dogs that I wanted to work on. :)  It was my only income on which to keep myself and my daughter from when she was about 6 years old so I had to have a regular income.

IMO there is absolutely no excuse for not doing a hygiene clip and under the legs and between the toes.    That's the bare minimum that should be done on a dog which will mat quickly, so the groomer is taking the mickey.     :-(

Roxy,

My guess is you could learn to scissor your OH's dog in a puppy clip and keep it in better shape :-)    seems like the groomer's only doing half a job anyway !

They don't trim claws either!  To be honest while I appreciate it is nice for the OH to see they are not rough with her and so forth I would far rather send her to a groomers and that way I would not be left having to bath her the day before and clean up the evening after!

Whilst you are sorting out the groomers poor workmanship your oh really isnt going to stop using them and it seems silly to be putting money in their pocket when you are doing it yourself.

I met a lovely Lhasa pet with her owners on the old railway lines (now a footpath cycleway).  I thought ti was a puppy, btu ti was 5 years old and probably it's coat was between two and 3 inches long. 

They said they took her to the groomer evey 6 weeks and she was easy to keep tidy with a full comb once a week and a quick go over if she got muddly.

It was just so nice to be able to recognise the breed the dog was.  I don't see why people go for a long coated breed and have it clipped to the skin.

Fred's mum, good point well made but I can't let the little dog suffer and be uncomfortable.  I cut a load of matts out of her feet at weekend too.  And sort of tidied her legs so they blended a bit better. 

Brainless, she is clipped to about an inch or two long, recognisably a shih tsu for sure. 

I have a new plan though, met with a recommended groomer close to me and I am going to pop her in from time to time along with my springer (who only really needs a minimal tarting up) and pass the shih tsu off as my work and show him what a good job the groomer si doing on my springer and how I met her shih tsu and how lovely he looks and maybe perhaps ...... 

I think perhaps you misunderstood me. I'm not suggesting you leave the dog with a matted coat, but stop using the groomer who quite frankly sounds rubbish (!) and stick to doing it yourself :-)

I would, and you are right she is, OH won't and it took me ages and ages and ages with scissors, my clippers are much too big and I would be scared of ending up with a shih tsu who looks like a jack russell!  Also, she is not helpful, she wriggles, doesn't like having her feet touched and gets bored!  So in fact what I could find is that I have a shih tsu who looks like a russell on one side and a woolly mammoth on the other lol

Not that there is anything wrong with russells but I don't want her to look like one!

or woolly mamoths lol

i want on of you nice good groomers to come and show me what to do with my flat coat please :) you sound great