Just looking at a schedule for an Open show judged on Group system, but there is only a general avnsc (for any avnsc breed) Puppy/Junior/Post Grad/Open....I always thought if it is a Group show that there had to be avnsc pastoral/avnsc working/avnsc hound/etc.....I remember a schedule having to be changed for that reason only last year, but maybe they were wrong?

Not looked it up but I am sure you are right else you will not have an AVNSC in each group as only one animal will go forward to group and there should be 7 providing there are entries in each group.

I would love to know the answer to this query too as last year I did a show that was judged on the group system but only had one avnsc for all breeds without classes.

my boy won his large class of various breeds from several groups   but only managed to get reserve avnsc. As he was beaten by a terrier and not another toy I  asked the sec if he could go through to the group. She was adamant that he could not.

Decided not to bother with this system again

I did email the KC to ask, but they quoted the relevant rule, which isn't that clear to me, so still no wiser!!

Will finish my sandwich and have a look, mind you I might not be any the wiser.

Just found the answer I think, on an old post that came up on search!  Apparently just one AVNSC is fine, as long as it's not held after Group judging!

I can't find the relevant rule but I am pretty sure that you have to have at least 1 class for each group if you are judging on a group system. Otherwise you would not be judging on a group system as some of the exhibits would be penalised by the classification and that can't be right. Mind you some of the KC rules are against all logic.

Under Best in Show it says this:

The best unbeaten winning dog from the AVNSC classes in each group or on each day - now I take that to mean that a AVNSC winner should be declared in each group.

Just looked at the Bath champ show schedule and they only have AVNSC classes for all the breeds of any groups that day. 

So Toy and Terrier on the first day, so only the winner will go through to it's respective group and no representative from the other group/s get so go through.

WELKS appear to give each group AVNSC classes. 

Three Counties only has one set of AVNSC (from the groups that day) each day same as Bath.

Interesting, like conflicting rules lol....

> in each group or on each day

the latter part of that seems to imply just the daily winner of combined AVNSC, other wise why not simply say 'in each group'.

Okay, so looks like this schedule is correct then, as the AVNSC will be before the Group judging takes place!  So we learn something new every day!

Would suspect, that the rule was meant to differentiate between Open Shows (each group) and Championship Shows (each day) but, of course, the way it is written it does not because an Open show that is held on one day only can lump all the groups together, very mean but that is what the rule says.