Hi, I'm new (please be kind!)

I would like to use my dog as a stud dog, however for now I am only considering it. He is kc registered shih tzu, healthy up to date on jabs etc however I would like to know what health tests need to be done and any other relevant information (eg. What i need to do, info i can read up on etc) as i have never done this before. If I decide to go ahead I want to make sure everything is done right and both parents and pups will be happy and healthy. any help appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

im not sure for your breed but if you go on the kc website it will tell you ,maybe get him in a show?? so he can be looked over to make sure hes of breed standed :) we all love our dogs but to breed its done to improve on the dogs and not because "hes so cute and i want a pup from them" im not saying thats why you are :) there is also a post on the site about should i breed my dog/bitch its very interesting :) x

ok I've had a look at the breed health test requirements and there's nothing down for Shih tzu - however, there may be recommended tests which aren't on the official list and your first call may be to your breed club.  I don't know anything really about the breed so my advice is general.... hopefully someone who knows more will come along.

Secondly - what can your dog offer to the shih tzu breed?  Is your dog a good example of his breed?  In general bitch owners approach dog owners because they like what they see and what the dog has to offer... so are you showing him?  Is he doing well? 

Thirdly, what can you offer?  Do you know your dog's pedigree inside out?  By this I mean, do you know all the dogs in it?  What their faults and attributes are?  What sort of pups do they throw?  Do you know enough (and more) to offer advice to owners of bitches about compatibility and do you know when to advise against it and be able to say why?  Do you know enough to know who the reputable bitch owners are and who may be back yard breeders or even puppy farmers?  Most stud dog owners have years of experience and knowledge of their breed before they even contemplate having a stud dog...

Can you supervise the mating so neither dog (particularly your boy) gets hurt, what if it goes wrong and the bitch owner has driven 300 miles to use your dog????

Can you help in selling the pups, advise puppy owners etc etc

Will you cope with your boy if he changes completely?  Not all do, but many change and become more difficult, always looking for bitches, scent marking become aggressive to other males etc etc

I suggest that you perhaps talk to your dog's breeder and see what they say.  Get yourself a mentor and find out a lot more than you know at the moment.  I'm sorry but my strong advice would be to enjoy your dog and forget about his stud career.....

First how old is your dog and how well has he done in the show ring, has he had all the breed club recommended health tests done with good results. Will his breeder be happy to help you for the first few services or if not someone else who has this experience. You may need to be able to accommodate the visiting bitches and the owner overnight or even for two or three, your dog may start marking in the house, you are equally responsible with the bitch owner for any pups you produce and you may be called upon to give a home to a pup that the owner can't keep until it can be rehomed.

So as you see not to be taken lightly, so ask around others who are in the breed and use their dogs at stud to find out more.

The question apart from the other responses is why would you want to use him as a stud dog ?

P777ten

It's a buyer's market and unfortunately the buyer is the bitch owner.  She gets to choose from all the available studs.  The question is - what does you boy have which another highly qualified stud dog doesn't?

The question apart from the other responses is why would you want to use him as a stud dog ?

That is a point, why would you, in my breed if you have a dog that is doing well and carries 'new blood' then you may well get a few requests to use him but in breeds where there is no shortage of suitable successful males it would seem a bit pointless but no doubt if the OP comes back they will tell us why they want to go down this route.

Think this is another case where we will be accused of being negative but we have not been given sufficient information about this dog to be able to give the right advice, is the dog a successful show dog with a number of top awards or is it a family pet - the advice would be very different.

Hi, I would just like to say a big thank you to everyone. I came here for good advice and It has given me lots to thnk about.

I wasn't really sure how far I would go with it whether to stud him out or as I have a bitch (kc reg'd) lined up and we have 6 homes if we did decide to breed (I know these can fall through with change in circumstances etc). we (me and bitch owner) would keep one each, my mum and dad (one each - lives separately -both retired) my BIL and the bitch owners daughter. So we wouldn't be making money. All had dogs previously. I see there is a lot to do. He is 2yrs and was used as stud previously but owners circumstances changed and now he is with us :-).

Obv studding him out to public is different to the above (I should have pointed out that in my first post, sorry for lack of info) I have his pedigree in the attic so if I get 5 mins today I will look it over and see what's there. I don't think he has been shown before. but it is something I would love to do or at least have a go at :-)

Should hve been more accurate in my first post so apologies, I really wanted to understand the qualities a dog needs to be a stud dog, relevant health tests, basically how to go the correct way about it rather than just be another byb. I have fostered shih tzu's all my adult life (all rescues mostly ex breeding from byb's which is why I want to treat my dogs properly) its only now I have decided to buy a pedigree for myself :-) I may go ahead with the litter we have planned (still deciding) but I don't know about any more studding duties. I have always wanted to breed and show maybe just another pipe dream but nice while it lasted!

Thank you xx

>we have 6 homes if we did decide to breed (I know these can fall through with change in circumstances etc). we (me and bitch owner) would keep one each, my mum and dad (one each - lives separately -both retired) my BIL and the bitch owners daughter.

I don't understand: If you and the bitch owner would keep a pup, and your mum and dad one each and your brother in law and the bitch owner's daughter - that's 5 people who potentially could have a rescue dog or home a pup from elsewhere.  Why do you want to breed more unspectacular pups for no purpose other than to be pets?  The UK already has more than enough dogs, desperate for homes - as you'll know if you've rescued them. There are many pups around, from rescue centres or having bounced back to breeders.  Why add to that number?  Let these people find a dog from elsewhere, if they want one. 

Also:  It's strange how everyone seems to want a pup before you breed, then you go ahead and breed and suddenly all those 'for sure' people who'd told you they wanted one, melt away and make excuses.  Family members are the worst for this.  It's very easy to say 'yes. I'd love a pup' - the reality of dealing with toilet training and puppy playbiting and all the rest of it, is quite different.

It is very unusual for a bitch owner to breed to her own stud dog.  As a puppy buyer, I would be very suspicious of anyone doing this.  Most bitch owners want to *choose* a stud dog to complement their bitch.  They have shown or assessed their bitch in various ways and they know her weaknesses.  They then choose a stud from lines which complement her, to compensate for these weaknesses.  If you're just putting together 2 dogs which you just 'happen' to have, not knowing beforehand how they would turn out - chances are they are not the best matches for each other.  To me, it would suggest someone who doesn't understand breeding at all, or who is lazy or saving money (stud fees) by using their own dog.  Of course there are exceptions to that - in fact, one of our dogs came from a breeder who owned both sire and dam - but then both were ShChs and had proven themselves and she knew what she was doing.

>I have his pedigree in the attic so if I get 5 mins today I will look it over and see what's there.

You haven't even looked at his pedigree yet, and you're considering breeding your 2 dogs together...??

>I really wanted to understand the qualities a dog needs to be a stud dog, relevant health tests, basically how to go the correct way about it rather than just be another byb.

That is a commendable ideal, but from what you're saying, you're not realising quite what's involved in realising that.  I don't own your breed, but if I did, I would be showing my dogs at open shows and champ shows and getting other people's opinions on them.  I would be trying to earn them some titles in the ring, and I'd be taking on people's criticisms of them.  If they failed to get placed and didn't do well, then I wouldn't breed them.  Because there are already a gazillion dogs around - unwanted - all looking for a home.  Bringing more mediocre dogs into the world simply wouldn't be something a responsible breeder would do.  A responsible breeder breeds for a purpose and a reason:  To produce more dogs with specific qualities, whether appearance-based or working/ability based.  Your breed isn't one known for working abilities, so you'd be hard pressed to prove yourselves there - although you could have a go, if showing isn't your thing.  The important thing is that you should be competing with your dogs and having them assessed by others to know if they are worth breeding from.  Otherwise, you are just another byb, in my opinion - no matter how much you might not want to be...

If you ultimately want to breed, instead of asking questions about breeding, you should be asking questions about showing, or agility or competing in some form with your dogs - and how to get into that.  Keep breeding as a far off thing for the future.

Basic requirements would be to prove him by showing him, do any tests that your breed club may call for, check on the health of his ancestors, longevity and the quality of the pups they and he may have produced. Study breeding lines in the breed so that you will know if you are approached by a bitch owner if your dogs lines are suitable.

I see you say you have a bitch booked in so I am now not sure what it is you wish to know, would make sure you have insurance incase anything goes wrong either with your dog any visiting bitches or any of the pups, make sure you home insurers know you are going to have people visiting for the purpose of mating dogs as you could find you are not covered.

Above all I would advise getting a mentor in the breed as that will save most of the risks to the dog and bitch.

Welcome to the forum :)

You may find this link of some interest: Should I offer my dog at stud?

>I don't understand: If you and the bitch owner would keep a pup, and your mum and dad one each and your brother in law and the bitch owner's daughter - that's 5 people who potentially could have a rescue dog or home a pup from elsewhere.

Not all of us want a rescue dog or even rescue pup with unknown history. I see nothing wrong in someone wanting a well bred cared for puppy, personally. I think the OP is going about this exactly right, by asking questions, letting us know about their dog and their intentions, and so on.

To the OP, well done for asking and thinking about it instead of just leaping in. With a Shih Tzu, you have a lot of coat care to think about if you intend to show your boy. Have a look at that pedigree, and go to some shows and talk to shih tzu people there (not when they're about to go in the ring) and if you make sure to come across as someone who genuinely loves the breed and wants to improve it, rather than someone that just wants to breed their pet, they will probably be welcoming and helpful. It may be that you decide showing isn't for you, or that you decide your boy isn't good enough to offer the breed anything. That doesn't mean you can never ever breed, you just need to do more research, perhaps further down the line get a different dog or bitch and try showing them, or something like that. :-)

Just to add -have you made sure the dog is registered in YOUR name (i.e. did you pay the KC to transfer him after you bought him) and that his registration is not endorsed so that he cannot be bred from? You won't find any of that on his pedigree, it's his KC registration certificate you need.

Good point Goldmali, suppose it depends on why the first owner re-homed him, it is possible they stopped breeding with him for a reason and will have endorsed his registration. 

Is the link able to be seen by someone who isn't a member (trying to put off someone who has already used his dog at stud - a merle to merle mating with his bitch - and is now asking me about using him again because another pet owner has approached him)?

Yes; this is an open forum; posts can be read without having to join.

Thank you for replying Jeangenie.

P777ten

One of your questions, I see has not been answered.  :-)  You wanted to know if there was anything that you could read.

It would be a good idea to get "The Book of the Bitch" - you will get it on Amazon quite cheaply, and you will learn a lot from it.  I have stud dogs myself, and still feel that it is important to learn things from both angles.

Thanks all. Sorry for not the late reply I have decided not to stud my dog out and have had him neutered instead lol xx

good for you :)

Thanks, and a Big thank you to Lucy dogs for helping defend a newbie. much appreciated xx