http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2269089/Crufts-allow-dog-owners-treat-pets-hairspray-lifting-ban-performance-enhancing-substances.html

I found the comments on the article very interesting. Shows what the GP think of dog shows and showing. !!

I think the ban should stay; showing is about seeing the effect of the dogs' genes and what it'll pass on to its offspring, not the handlers' hairdressing skills.

Tbh I think most of the comments sound like people who have been waiting to have a go not just your average Joe blogs, I never get negative comments when I mention my hobby and crufts still pulls in a high number of ordinary visitors.

>I think the ban should stay

I agree.  If hairspray was banned EVERYONE would have to show their poodles with shorter topknots so the playing field would be level and it would STILL leave scope for showing off your presentation skills without spaying something into the poor dogs face.
Once again a minority of breeds.............................:(

> I think the ban should stay

I've never shown (apart from one companion show) and never will. One thing I hate about the dog world is the extreme grooming and stupid clothes etc that dogs are made to wear. Dogs don't need these things and they are not toys or baby substitutes. They can fulfill their purpose perfectly well without being made to look totally stupid and, IMO, anybody who feels the need to use hairspray and the extremities of grooming etc etc should get themselves a Barbie doll and leave their dog to have some dignity :) :)

Exactly stooge a minority that the rest of us have to suffer the wrath from :( 

The trouble is in some breeds in the group ring I'm thinking the keeshond ( because its next to me so I notice) are brushed constantly and they often getplaced so then people want to emulate the success and it continues, I hate it as some of them are so rough with the dog just yanking a comb through its coat.

I've never shown (apart from one companion show) and never will. One thing I hate about the dog world is the extreme grooming and stupid clothes etc that dogs are made to wear.

??? Dogs aren't allowed to wear clothes at shows -not even in heelwork to music!

> I think the ban should stay; showing is about seeing the effect of the dogs' genes and what it'll pass on to its offspring, not the handlers' hairdressing skills.

Totally agree.

I wonder who wrote the article.  The exact same one appeared in The Sunday Telegraph so obviously not a staff reporter.  Someone from the show world, do you think?  Or the dog press?
In fact, I wonder who Dioklis is? :)

> Dogs aren't allowed to wear clothes at shows -not even in heelwork to music

LOL - I meant in general - not specifically at shows :) :) It wouldn't surprise me at all if, in future years, clothes were allowed at shows - the catwalk classes :) :)

I have obviously been doing things wrong as my dog has not been wearing his clothes to shows!

seriously though,I don't think any of us think it is right to use cosmetics etc on dogs but when over coiffed dogs are winning top awards people in those breeds who are just starting out are bound to copy.

i don't see any thing wrong in a bit of powder or chalk to clean up a dog after it has toileted or got its front wet from drinking,provided it is fully brushed out before going into the ring

It wouldn't surprise me at all if, in future years, clothes were allowed at shows - the catwalk classes :-) :-)

That sentence truly shows somebody who hasn't the first idea about dog shows.......

> That sentence truly shows somebody who hasn't the first idea about dog shows

If you say so :)

>It wouldn't surprise me at all if, in future years, clothes were allowed at shows - the catwalk classes

Do you know, when the Secretary of the Standard Poodle Club is quoted as saying this

>'It made us look foolish in the eyes of everybody overseas. In the US they think nothing of using hairspray.
>'It's a beauty competition. [The hairspray ban] is like Miss World being made to go on without her make-up.'

and the Kennel Club appear to be kowtowing to that view, anything is possible!
I know what you mean, Daisy, hairspray, frilly knickers, it all falls in the same ballpark.

> One thing I hate about the dog world is the extreme grooming and stupid clothes etc that dogs are made to wear.

Well a bath every few months or when moulting or dirty, a thorough comb through and thorough brushing is all a lot of breeds including mine get.

In 2007 at Windsor with rivers of mud some people carried their dogs to the ring.  I wasn't going to risk myself or dogs and with hock high mud the judge could still assess my exhibits, with BPIB, and the other won Veteran bitch and the CC.

> Well a bath every few months or when moulting or dirty, a thorough comb through and thorough brushing is all a lot of breeds including mine get

Great ! :) We went to Bath many years ago when it was a sea of mud. It was interesting watching the different breeds and the owners' differing attitudes to the mud :) :)

I think the ban should stay; showing is about seeing the effect of the dogs' genes and what it'll pass on to its offspring, not the handlers' hairdressing skills.

compleatly agree, so are the kc saying that if enough people break a rule because they dont like it they will change the rules to suite?

Surly if a dog cant be shown in the ring with out hair spray in its coat that should tell there owners something is wrong, either with how they want the dogs coat to look or the coat itself.

Look how often a poodle wins bis RBIs or other high honours , says it all really.

Just goes to show who has the most clout and friends in high places at the KC.

A dog should be a dog, and look like a dog. It should be a level playing field and not about the best groomers. A good judge should be able to see past all the coat fluffing and get there hands on the dog.

> I wonder who wrote the article. The exact same one appeared in The Sunday Telegraph so obviously not a staff reporter. Someone from the show world, do you think? Or the dog press?
> In fact, I wonder who Dioklis is?

An anagram perhaps... SILKI DO  !?

>I think the ban should stay; showing is about seeing the effect of the dogs' genes and what it'll pass on to its offspring, not the handlers' hairdressing skills.

Here! Here!
Lifting this ban is not progress nor sportsmanship :-(

Its also funny how many of the names in the comments section I recognise off the PDE blog,,, this just plays right into the anti show hands.

Talk about going backwards, what next? Allowing dyed fur?

> Lifting this ban is not progress nor sportsmanship

Plus appalling PR but it's all a bit smelly to me. This story appears to have emerged on a Sunday via one journalist who has written the piece and sold it to more than one paper rather than the usual statement on the Kennel Club website and a release to the canine press as seems normal.  Also the story states that these changes will not come about until 2014.  Why? Very odd.

> and the Kennel Club appear to be kowtowing to that view, anything is possible!
> I know what you mean, Daisy, hairspray, frilly knickers, it all falls in the same ballpark.

Well thank goodness Crufts is more than just a Poodle class! ;)

I doubt you'll see hairspray in most of the other breed rings - not to mention Obedience, Agility, Flyball, HWTM, or any of the myriad of display teams and dogs that attend over the full four days.

In fact, anyone going along hoping to see a hairprayed Poodle on the days other than the one they're shown, will be in for a big disappointment ;)

> I doubt you'll see hairspray in most of the other breed rings

You don't even see it on the people in most rings!!

Thank goodness.      ...and really!  What twit thought it was a good idea to say in print that dog shows are a beauty contest - she should be taken outside and...

.

> she should be taken outside and...

....And? Elnetted to within an inch of her life? LOL

I like the idea of hairsprayed handlers. A beehive class, methinks?

What's the ethical difference between using hairspray to disguise a too-soft coat, cosmetics to disguise decorative faults and sedatives to disguise aggressive temperament? Nothing; all are intended to hide the truth so should be banned.

Is that why they use so much on miniature schnauzers?? I was shocked when I watched one being groomed, I always thought they were rough and ready.

If you actually watch some breeds you'll see it's not just Poodles who have this that and other used on them.

Newfs, Mals, Bernese, RBT's and Bichons to name a few can be seen to not only be heavily groomed but be hair sprayed and have other products put through their fur. This is not all for all of the breeds but it is evident when you watch them prepare their dogs at shows. Only yesterday were the Mal exhibitors at an open show hairspray in the fur on the hocks outwards, there's a new trend that any coated breed in the working group needs o have the fur sticking out on the hocks!!

> there's a new trend that any coated breed in the working group needs o have the fur sticking out on the hocks!!

I had always thought if anything was done to the hocks it was to trim any stay hairs to tidy them up, but thsi breed shoudl nto ahve such a coat, it is the smae type as mine so nothing is needed to tidy hocks or feet.

I can only presume the hair spray in this instance is used to make the dog appear to have more bone.

At a recent seminar that a friend went so she was told that the heavy sculpting of some of the working breeds was comin in. She said that spray painting a dogs coat in particular a Newfs was not uncommon in the US and would end up here. I can't get my head around how sculpted this working breed is...

I questioned about the spray paint and it coming off on a judges hand, yes it does and no judge says anything!!! This is where it falls down, judges allowing these things to go unnoticed and not marked down...

I always have just put in my write ups how beautifully groomed my dogs are and I only ever use shampoo,usually treseme lol. I have one dog with a biscuit patch which one judge told me was very wrong but it hasn't stopped him getting 2ccs and 8rccs. I was told to cut it out or bleach it but its him so I just leave well alone.

>... All a bit smelly to me.

Agree Stooge,
This article that appeared in The Telegraph (back in Oct 2012) seems to have had a lot of its wording lifted, the difference is The Telegraph presents the story as the 'substance testing' being lifted.. Not nessecarily 'the ban' (until further KC meetings)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/pets/8800958/Kennel-Club-suspends-testing-dogs-for-banned-substances-amid-widespread-cheating.html

No surprises, The Telegraph is a better article! I didn't realise that the owner of the Poodle that failed the Crufts 2012 testing claimed the substance was on her dog due to being transferred by the Judge's hands....

I think the ban should stay

I was at an open show a couple of summers ago and was on the verge of an asthma attack when I realised the cause was two women about 20 feet away spraying the life out of a poodle. God only knows what that poor dog went through. I agree, Jeangenie, coats should be left as natural as possible--but also understand the immense pressure to allow products I wouldn't have anywhere near my dogs. It was pretty sobering to see at Westminster all this glorious coat but a lot to be desired in actual conformation. It is very sad for breeds when superficial qualities supersede the purpose of the dog and its health.

I think that the ban should stay and as the style isn't natural and needs rubbish putting in it to make it look that way maybe it's about time that some breeds were shown in a different, more natural style for the coat?

Still no comment on the Kennel Club website.  Odd.

The article has, however, been mentioned on "Gossip Hound".
Jemima Harrison's comment on the readers responses: "Yes, it IS interesting to see the comments - overwhelmingly negative as you say. And I suspect this will get picked up more widely."
Ominous.

OMG -QUOTE-Sandy Vincent, the secretary of the Standard Poodle Club of Great Britain said 'It's a beauty competition. [The hairspray ban] is like Miss World being made to go on without her make-up.'
Dog shows are NOT beauty competitons at all. I cant believe anyone in the show world would say that. Dog showing is about Health, confermation and breed standerd. and the dog that has the best of all 3 gets 1st. Beauty has nothing to do with it. Shame on you Sandy vincent

Tbh stooge the article only got 147 comments and if you look at the names alot are from people who post on her blog.
I do think this is the most stupid pr mistake the kc could possibly make, how can they on one hand have vet checks yet send another message that you caj fill dogs lungs with hairspray,  I only have to spray my impulse on me and my dogs start sneezing :(

That's just one newspapers website.  I expect it was in their print edition too and in at least one other newspaper that I know of.
However, I have yet to see anything released by the Kennel Club on this issue so reserving judgement until I hear it from the horses mouth.

Incidently I saw a post on fb in a exhibitors group where someone who judged fcr's had the most filthiest hands I've seen. Maybe they should do a article about that :p

Well with crufts on the way i bet we will see a lot more show things in the news by anti show people who try and put people off going . I think the ban should stay by the way .

That judges hands were filthy, it's common decency and respectful to make sure your dog isn't dirty when got funded any judge!!!

I agree, we actually had a judge who did our breed have hands like that and ours are white lol, so you can imagine how the dog looked, she stopped judging and shouted for some wipes and made it clear why she was washing her hands.

LOL that's happened in my breed too Boody!  I know that they should be shown rustic but not dirty :)

I was at a show locally a few years ago and a woman was spraying loads of a tin of some sort of spray on a black poodle. They threw her out for breaking the rules. It was such a shame she thought she had to do this, as I'm sure it was a lovely dog anyway without getting sprayed.

Its already banned & people still do it so whats the point in lifting it or even having it, people will do what they do. Grooming to the extreme is getting horredous in all breeds I think, remember someone in our breed (Mals) using eyeliner on their dog :/ just dont get it but is unfair on those that follow the rules, makes you wonder if honesty is the best policy although knowing my luck I would get caught first time - my guilty expression would give it away - ive only got to see a policeman & I feel bad when I've not done anything lol!

>Its already banned & people still do it so whats the point in lifting it or even having it

That's a bit like questioning the point of drink/drive laws because people still drink and drive.