Hello I am a new member to this site, seeking advice about purchasing a Pug with a view to eventually breeding in about 2 years. I know that's probably a controversial opening statement. However I am a breeder and have bred Cairn terriers for a number of years. I have taken great care when breeding my cairns, they are first and foremost family members. I have bred them with success and with little complications, on the first litters I did have to revive two and hand rear at least one out of each litter for a couple of days but then the cairns took over. My cairns are brilliant natural mothers. I have always wanted a pug and admired them from a far (and know how brilliant they are with children and other dogs) but with breeding my cairns I put thoughts of adding one to the family aside. We are now in the position to look for a pug. The breeder in me wants to breed her when she is old enough. However I am feeling very cautious as my research so far has suggested that c-sections are highly likely and that pugs are not natural mothers and often reject their babies. Are these issues the norm or likely? I would appreciate any polite advice from those who know the breed - I say polite as I have noticed during my research that most questions about breeding pugs are met with hostility. Can I reiterate that I am a responsible owner/breeder hence the on-going research. All honest (non-scare mongering) and open advice will be greatly appreciated.
Many Thanks
DM

> I have bred them with success

Do you mean in the show ring?
I think you can understand the possibility of hostility around breeding pugs if it just to produce puppies to sell, so perhaps if you gave a little more information around the purpose of your breeding........

I'm not a pug person, but I think the only hostile responses are those to people who have bred or are intending to breed their dogs (of any breed) without proper thought and planning beforehand. If you are open about your intent to the breeder you approach, making sure to say, as you have here, that you have bred before, and that you intend to do all the necessary tests and perhaps show your pug to make sure she is a suitable quality specimen worthy of breeding from, hopefully the breeder will be more receptive. You have to make it clear that you are not a backyard breeder or puppy farmer, as the good breeders are very protective of their puppies, as I'm sure you know.

Speaking as somebody who has added a second breed in the not too distant past (and who has bred animals pretty much all my life, starting from mice as my first litter and working all the way up through the fancies), I don't quite get the desire to breed before I know the breed -know what it is like to live with, to show, etc. I have to live with a breed first before knowing whether I want to take my interest in it as far as breeding. Indeed, the two breeds I am showing and breeding I initially got as pets with no intention of showing or breeding -it just followed on naturally once I knew I had a genuine interest in the breed and it was right for me. Showing as the second step, breeding as the final step.

I do appreciate that hostility comes from breeders who are probably passionate and protective of the breed, I understand this. I too felt a little twinge of over-protectiveness when I discovered that one of my cairn's puppies had been bred but this soon disappeared when I rationalised with myself that I knew that she had been taken great care of. I have always wanted a pug, first and foremost as a pet but want to be responsible about breeding. I would just like an honest an open response about what breeding a pug could involve but really what is the norm when breeding a pug?.

Yes I take your point. Knowing the breed as a pet, your daily companion is crucial. I am thinking long term. My neighbour of 7 years has a pug and a friend who lives around the corner does too, we socialise daily and my cairns and children get on great with them. I have questioned my neighbours about the breed (which they of course worship!). I feel that we will more than likely buy a pug (incidently my recent research has shown that black pugs can be the most mischievous!) but I would just like to know about the breeding side in advance to see whether or not I will in fact go down the breeding route or not - I like to be well informed before I make decisions.

Thanks for the replies so far.
DM

I started a thread recently about puppy registration numbers and pugs came up

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/139869.html#fp

so thought I would point you in that direction as folk who know the breed came along and commented.

It is a breed that pops up regularly with whelping and maternal issues but there may be breeders who will only breed from free whelpers and good dams as happens in other small/toy breeds that will let you have a bitch but you will have to build up a rapore with them and go on a waiting list if these are rare in the breed. Contact breed clubs and attend shows to see the bigger picture.

Good Luck with your research.

Thank you very much. I will take a look at the link... what an interesting thread, food for thought indeed - for all breeds!

DM

>what is the norm when breeding a pug?.

Along with a toy breed that I have, I guess they are known for the more difficult.  I would say without hesitation that it is sensible to have at least £1,000 put by for an out of hours section.  They love catching you out in the early hours.

I see that you talk about having a pup, and breeding in 2 years.  I am assuming that they are mated later than my toy breed.  Mine are best mated on the 2nd season.  And I have years of experience behind my decision.  But unlike large breeds, I spay at 4 years. 

Do you say in 2 years knowing that is the best age for the breed?  I do know we have a pug expert on CD, and if she says 2 years, then I think that is probably one of the differences.  The other is maternal instinct.  I don't have the problem that pug owners have.  Pug mums don't think it is their job to clean up the poo. 

I have been working on a self whelping line for years.  With a breed that has between 1 - 3 pups.  So if someone came to me for a breeding bitch, they would have a hard job wrestling one off me.  That isn't being mean either.  But it isn't as easy as it sounds.  Any bitch who needs a section is spayed, her daughters are sold as pets, not suitable for breeding.  The same goes for any bitch that suffers from inertia.  Common sense says this is a VERY long term project and when you get the perfect self whelping bitch having two boys, you start all over in a years time.

You do need to get out to some shows and meet some pug people.

>what is the norm when breeding a pug?.

Hi, Im new myself to owning a pug, hopefully to have a showing career with and if she does well i think in time i may consider a litter which would be well planned to ensure a nice breed standard etc and the support of my vets advice and also providing she is suitable to produce hopefully what would be my next show pug and also possibly someone else a show dog too , and will just say i had spoken to a breeder of pugs local to me for info on the breed and it made me worry more and in time her info will make me think long and hard before i breed. Her first pug had a litter at around 2yrs, was scanned with 4 pups, pregnancy went well labour progressed she managed 2 pups alone then got into difficulty ended up to the vets middle of the night c-section and found to be 3 pups inside (so one was not seen on scan) perfectly fine healthy pups and mum coped well . Second pug, again all well scanned to 6 pups , because of the last pugs labour outcome the breeder opted to have a planned c-section, mum fine , lost 5 pups within 1wk only one survived.
I have read too alot about self whelping pugs and that their pups will be self whelping too i dont know if their is any proof to this but i think breeding from them like any dog really should be well thought out and studied to ensure good pups are produced for the future generations of the breed

>I have read too alot about self whelping pugs and that their pups will be self whelping too i dont know if their is any proof to this

I have many, many years of proof about the dedicated study of this subject.  So rest assured, you may doubt no longer.  :-)

>I have many, many years of proof about the dedicated study of this subject.  So rest assured, you may doubt no longer.

Thankyou, So is it related back through the breeding generations the self whelping not just the dam?