im worried sick my girl has been sick this morning she only eat a bit of food and was sick 1/2h after, last night she was nesting iv notest shes looseing her plug and has been for afew days...this is my problem!! when she was scaned the scanner said didnt take on 1st mate maybe 2nd if not the last ...so from 1st mate she could have pups from tomorrow....2nd mate could be from wednessday...and from 3rd mateing will be next sunday so thats 8 days away ,,the dates iv given have been the earlist like 58 days from each mate ...im i makeing any sence......so could the scanner be wrong about the dates?? im worried if she has them over the next few days thay not servive has any1 eles had pups on different dates to the scanner has said or am i just worrying over nothing i havnt felt pups even move yet :( x

Depending on how tightly the pups are packed in you may not see/feel much movement, the best time I have found is when Mum is asleep as she and her muscles are relaxed, lay by her on the bed/sofa and let her fall asleep,ease your hand under her belly and stay still, early on you only feel faint ripples but as days go by they get stronger.

With my first litter Lois's second she started to lose her plug a week before she actually whelped on day 63 from second mating, then nesting on and off so took her to the vet as suggested by my mentor, she had started to dilate hence the plug coming away but wasn't contracting and the scan I asked for showed at least 3 healthy pups and she whelped 48hrs later[ the mentor was concerned because she had whelped 2 days early from only one mating with her first litter], she had a 3rd litter almost 12 months later and followed the same routine of whelping to the second mating and messing about for a week before.

There is nothing you can do to stop the process just be there to assist her and the pups and give any extra support if they are premature, have you got the Dopram V and vet/nutrodrops which are life savers.

Keep us posted

iv got them coming anyday now! ive just felt a strong movement im praying she goes a week today cus then il be fine and im sure the pups will too ...cant get the scanner out here now weve had more snow its very bad and im not paying the vet £65 before vet cost :( plus i dont think we can get the car moved xx

I only mentioned what happened with me, the vet didn't want to scan but as I had struggled down to the vets in awful weather[2 nights before Xmas] I wasn't going home without some definite news, it also allowed the vet to monitor that there were no contractions whilst she was through being scanned.

It sounds like she is going through the motions of getting ready, my other bitch did no messing about and was all done and dusted in 4hrs from start to finish, where Lois went into labour at 8am and had the last pup of 3 at 02.50am the next day, so even the same breed can be completely different.

Don't panic as this will transfer to your girl, even if you got her scanned now what ever the result wouldn't stop it from happening so just be prepared make sure the whelping area is very warm as a chill for even a short time can be fatal especially if they are early. You also need to be able to get to the vets somehow, so if your car can't then check with friends or a taxi service before hand, I won't have another winter litter, too much worry about heating and transport with the weather we have been having the past few years.

There have been members here worrying about an early whelping then 7-10days later back worrying that nothing has happened.

im praying this is the last of the snow now :( and the rains come very soon! but its bloody deep! we dont live on a main road so its hard BUT im sure if we neededto every1 on here would come out and get rid of the snow we have great ppl around us....im watching them move as im typing i think she is starting to get her body ready im praying for at least 5days tho ive got everything ready so just want her safe and her babies to stay put for at least 5days......ive been talking to her breeder her mums 1st litter came on day 63 from 1 mate 2nd litter came 3 days early but her bitch my girls mum had only 2 mateings but pups came from 1st mateing both times and even mated on day 8 like izzi did i think that was the 1st that came 63 days ...so aweek today if she goes like her mum x

Now you realise why too many matings confuses the due date, bar for the one I struggled to get pregnant I only mate twice 48hrs apart, with her I did 3 with 48hrs between each.

How those breeders get on that put the 2 together at the beginning of the season and then leave them to it is mind boggling.

never again will we do the 3 mateing thats for sure my gut feeling is she took on the 2nd mate and if she early with them she cant go any earlyer then 4days time ,then pups should be fine im taking that from 2nd mate and day 58 x

the girl of yours that had 3 mateing when did she catch or when did she have pups from the mateing ?? x

Day 61 from 1st mating,she was an early ovulater.

was she progesrone? and scanned at 4weeks if so did she look that she had took so early?x

Due to that being my 5th attempt at getting her pregnant, had a phantom on 4 previous matings[ never on the seasons she wasn't mated] I had bloods done and I did saliva and ovulation pad testing at home, they all tallied showing she ovulated on day 6 and was mated on days 8,10 &12, I had her scanned on day 39 to confirm pregnancy was still viable before starting the daily worming and puppy kibble, there were 3 pups which had strong heart beats, didn't go into which day she had got pregnant as the window wasn't that big.

theres 6 days with my girl she was scanned at 28 days from 1st mate and i saw the blobs x

I have never seen a dog scan that early so can't comment on what you should be able to see.

When it comes to human babies there are a set of measurements depicting gestational age, as dogs vary so much in size at birth unless the scanner does hundreds of your breed how can they be sure within a few days when the eggs actually got fertilized?

I was told mini dachsie embryos at 28 days are kidney bean size for palpation purposes, are all breeds the same then and the growth accelerates in the days after that?

Are there any professional dog scanners out there to enlighten us.

I had a bitch mated over 8 days as she had missed before and blood tests had shown that she sat on a low level for ages and then shot up unusually quickly.  My scanner (very experienced sheep scanner) told me exactly when she thought she had taken and she was spot on.  Obviously that is too late for you now White Lilly but if I ever felt the need to cover such a wide window in future I would do so but make sure she was scanned early enough for the scanner to give me the accurate info.

this is what im trying to find out Rhdach to be fair i think my girl was day 27 from 1st mate so if she hadnt took then we wouldnt have seen anything???plus that day the vet felt the pups and said she was around the 4week mark from what she was feeling this is why i wonder re the scan?? if she did take on the 1st mate at day 8 then she could have them from tomorrow ,shes been sick only had afew kibbles she not eat her wet food and is looseing her plug i can see it coming away ,she keeps cleaning herself....if she was to have them and their early i cant stop that BUT i dont want to be thinking shes not due and shes not showing any other signs and something happends :( i wish id of had her scanned abit later then the date .....but if i hadnt had her scanned and went on what the vet had said id be takeing it has she had took from 1st mateing ...is there any1 that scans here that could tell me what a toy breed would be looking like at 27 days from 1st mateing ??? x

hi zajak the problem i have this lady i used this time id never used before i found her number and just rang her cus she came out and was a good price ....wish id of gone to where id been before!! she omly said i dont think she took on 1st mate but she was omly 27 days gone ...i saw stright away and i dont scan ??!!x

Not sure how much help this will be for you Whitelilly but my scanner says that if the bitch is 26 days or less she cannot see them on her scanner, no matter how many there may be there.  The bitch I'm talking about was scanned halfway through the 8 day window (if that makes sense) and the foetus' were confirmed day 27, apparently they were tiny so she rescanned a week later to get more of an idea of numbers.  Again she was spot on with numbers and date.

i wish she had said to re scan aweek later now :( but would 3 days make such a difference with the scan then because if she had took at the last mateing we wouldnt have seen any pups then she would of only been 21 days so now i think my vet was right she was day 27 so she took 1st mate you have helped me work this out alot zajak thankyou!! :) i also think theres 4 pups not 3 but from tomorrow then it is xx

so when did she take sorry if iv asked this? so she was scanned in the 8day window i understand that!!...she was 27 days from mateing when you got her scanned?? but what day did you think your girl was at time of scanning?? x

we are day 58 today if i count the mateing day as day 1 bloody hell she could be anyday now then !! :-O x

Me and you together then whitelilly as my girl due weds:-). As regards the girl we were talking about she took from halfway through the 8 day window which   was what we had expected by behaviour,  etc.

yes i think tues for our girl but only time will tell good luck zajak my sucker and dropv hasnt come yet :( so shes got to hold on to them now!!. x

I've had good clear scans at 21 days, so definitely not impossible to pick pups up this early.

o dear sharon so now im back to square 1 :( x

would you have picked up all the pups at this stage too??x

You can progesteronw test a bitch close to whelping to determine if she ought to be whelping, or might need C section.

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2109&aid=3201

Quote:

"About 48 hours before whelping, the progesterone level drops to the 2 ng/ml range and within about 24 hours of whelping, the level drops to the 1 ng/ml range. This can help determine the proper timing of a c-section, especially if the progesterone level or LH level were not used to determine the ovulation date. By correctly determining the whelping time, it can prevent puppies from being taken by c-section too early and thereby decreasing their chance of survival."

thats very interesting brainless thankyou for this :)

Barbara thanks for that very easy to understand article, added to my favourites.

I didn't realise that the progesterone level stays high for approx 60 days whether the bitch has been mated or not, this certainly explains how some bitches can sustain a phantom for so long.

WhiteLily getting the blood checked would be one way to go but you may find with such a big window of due date it would need repeating, at this point I would wait and see, if the last due date is looming and still nothing has happened then get the bloods done to check she is due and it's not primary inertia holding things up.

How is she behaving today? Still getting her house in order/nesting or is she more settled, I read over night that when the pups start getting in line and moving nearer the exit this can make the bitch frantic. Has her shape changed/dropped making her spine more prominent? The perineum[area between vulva and anus] becomes more spongy nearer whelping but you need to know what it feels like normally, my mentor told me that tip when Lois was messing about and there was a marked difference in the last 24hrs from earlier in the week.

I don't have any success with temp taking but you could try that 3 times per day and wait for the drop.

Keep us posted

shes just sleeping alot not eating but did have afew kibbles then walked away!!...if 1 of us move (me or my daughter) she follows usher shape hasnt changed yet im looking out for all these changes i can feel her spine alittle more today ive also felt movement up near her ribs its not goin to be today so thats good :) ...im not going to stress her with taking her temp..il do the bloods if i need too :) x

her shape looks diiferent this morning she is 58 by 1st mate i got to wrong last time :( its driving me mad as the latest she could have the pups is the 8th feb if she goes 63 days from last mate il be a bag of nerves by then :( x

Here's to a safe and healthy whelping once she does get going whether it be this week or next.

Will keep checking back for progress

thankyou Rhodach :)

any news zajak??izzi has been sick thismorning x

I was hoping you were reporting they were all safely here.

i wish!! but shes not going to have these early i dont think now shes eating well and sleeping well no nesting now or nothing...so day 60 from 1st mate today and id put my life on it shes not going to have themin the next 24h x

Same here Whitelilly! 

well im sure she isnt going to be meny more days shes been sick yet again but has eaten shes had abit of a clearout....she keepsmoveing on the floor to get cumfy shes streches right out, iv felt pups move so but not as hard...i just wonder why she keeps being sick 1st thing in the moring she sleeps upstairs with my daughter iv been geting up 3times anight and checking on here ,her shap has changed abit too x

Hopefullyl not long to go now and good luck :)

Not long now then, good luck!

Her blood sugar may be low in the morning making her nauseous, if you are checking on her during the night then give her something to eat,vet drops to add calories or let her free feed when the mood takes her.

well were still waiting :( she went out thismoring and started pushing down she didnt wee or poo...she has milk now too i checked her today...i felt a pup move right down last night ,that was a very weird thing to feel :) im so tired wish they would come soon today would be nice tho lol x

Is everything ok, wev'e had no updates for a couple of days !

hi wee man no pups yet :( shes had a massive drop of the pups... day 62 from 1st mate day 60 2nd ,so anyday now shes messing me about lol i want them out now ,but she has just had some food so not today now :( LOL shes not had a clear out yet x

Good luck :)

thankyou, shes lay on the sofa chewing her bone!! LOL x

According to some books they don't eat before giving birth but a couple of mine have. I let one out into the garden after her tea for a poo and she went under a bush and had a pup.

wow she cant get anywhere from the patio thankgodness ,shes started panting so fingers crossed we are on the way :) she has been eating all day just very small amount :)

Ooh fingers crossed!!!  Been hoping to see news.  My girl ate the day of whelping by the way!

Mine rarely miss the opportunity of eating ;)

she went fast asleep but not eat anything yet ...i can see them moving still ,it feels like they never going to come :( today is day 62 from 2nd mate i really thought today would be the day so will just have to see ,but she still had a3rd mate 4days after the 2nd mate but from howshe wasshe had gone over .....shes not showing any signs of pain yet x