Hello all.

I mentioned in my temp thread that one of my puppies was born yesterday very very small (about 120g less than his siblings, he's only about 80g) and I think a bit premature? He has no hair on his back feet nor on his belly, and is lacking in much hair elsewhere, though he does have some impressive whiskers. He was still born but I rubbed him and gave him a drop of Dopram V (only after I'd tried everything else as I know the stuff is pretty potent!) under the tongue, and felt a tiny heartbeat. He started out very lethargic, couldn't suckle so had to hand feed him, and his breathing was very irregular, he wasn't twitching or making any noise and his mouth wouldn't close. Well now he's doing so much better, I've been hand-feeding him every two hours but have also been putting him on the teat to finish and he's been able to latch on and hold himself on to feed! He's also been twitching and squeaking and moving himself about a little bit which sounds like nothing but to me is pretty huge. What I would like to know is, is there a chance for him? Has anyone had a puppy like that and it's lived? We had a small puppy in the last litter but she was still strong like the others so it never concerned me (in fact she was the pick!). Any advice is greatly greatly appreciated.

p.s. mum and the rest of the pups are thriving!

Beth only time will tell if he survives, there are many miracles reported on here.

Can I suggest you put him on Mum first as she needs to know how much milk to produce and he has to learn how to get milk from the teat which is harder than a bottle, if you want to boost his energy before a feed then give him a few nutridrops,high energy but low in quantity so won't fill him up.

Keep us posted on how he gets on.

I gave my tiny ones glucose to boost them and then topped them up (after mum had fed them) with goats milk.

Thanks, and to you Claire, I will top up with Glucose as I don't have any nutridrops, he'll have a dose of puppy stim today too. Good point about the milk production, that completely slipped my mind, I will make sure he's put on the teat first now. Have just stuck him on the biggest back boobie so he's suckling away without being boffed out of the way. He's showing so much improvement now, I will be so upset if he fades away.

I always let one of the stronger puppies get the milk flowing then plug the weaker one onto that nipple so he/she has less work to do. You (along with all others on here) probably already do this, but sometimes you cant see the wood for the trees in these situations)

In August one of my girls delivered the tiniest baby; much smaller than her siblings.

She was given a couple of drops of nutridrop before every feed and was then put on to the biggest teat (after one of her much bigger siblings had started the milk flowing).

There were many days that I worried I would lose her, or that she would develop some health issue; but day by day she just got stronger and stronger. At 3 weeks of age she was still much smaller than her siblings, BUT was most definately the bossy boots....

She is now almost six months old and is stunning. She is almost as tall as her mom and has a beautiful structure. Most importantly, she has a super temperment and is robustly healthy. A beautiful little minx who everyone immediately falls in love with....

As you've probably guessed she was a "keeper" as I just could not bear to let her go.

Thanks Claire, yes I usually plug him onto one that's been started off lol!

Darwina, that really really warms my heart, I do hope we have the same luck as I would love for this little chap to thrive, we will take it one day at a time and hope for a miracle.

I had one that was 82 grams, in a breed that is more or less the same size as yours. He was also very lethargic when born and weighed less than half of the other siblings birth weight. I spent the first two weeks putting him on the teat every couple of hours, and since he kept gaining weight, I never topped him up.

The only problem he ever had was getting a flat ribcage when he was 5 days old, but keeping him on his side while feeding and sleeping solved that. His testicles also took a bit longer to descend.

He is a lovely healthy little dog.

That's excellent, I will feed him on his side to help avoid that. I've been putting him on the teat and holding him there, lovely moment today when he started to paddle his feet. Hopefully he will thrive like yours, it's great to know that it could happen.

Great to hear that instinct is kicking in with the foot paddling.

Good luck with your little fella. I've had a 4oz pup in a previous litter & he was so weak I used to feed him with an eye dropper. He gave me many sleepless nights & feeding every 2 hours till he could latch onto Mum. I cried with relief when he could feed unaided, but he got regular top ups of Lactol in a baby bottle. He stayed smaller than his brother & sister, but he's a gorgeous strapping lad now x

I can truly say that I will cry when he can feed unaided, my knees are black and blue from kneeling on the laminate holding him on to the nipple! He's taking ages to latch but once he's on he's going for gold. I will live in hope!

We had one like that struggled to latch on in our litter, you'd never know to look at her. Keep at it , I'm sure he'll be fine x

Anyone have any tips on helping a puppy latch on? I can't get him to latch on at all tonight and it's driving me to tears. Hand feeding in hope he'll turn a corner.

the only pup i had that did this was pts at 7days old :( fps .....i couldnt get the pup to lach no mater what wishing you all the luck xx

Thanks White Lilly. I hope he progresses as I will be so cut up if he passes away. He's just had a good syringe feed and was suckling hard on the rubber teat so will continue doing that today until I'm sure he's stronger, he's also had some glucose water. Weighed them today and he's put on about 10g which is great, he weighed 62g when born (just checked my records, thought it was 80g but he was even weenier). Biggest puppy in the litter is now a whopping 235g!

I used to work on a prem baby unit and trying to get those babies to latch onto Mum was a nightmare at times as you had to get enough breast into their tiny mouths for it to work in the right spot, get a suction and not choke or suffocate them.

I presume you have checked his mouth is normal and no problems with the palates[hard or soft], then with one of the teats squished flat in one hand and his head in the other open his mouth from the side with thumb and index/middle finger depending how long your fingers are and put the teat in his mouth keeping hold of it so um doesn't pull away,hold it shut and work his jaw and stroke his throat with fingers from hand holding the head.

This needs to be done where everyone is comfy, not you kneeling on the hard laminate floor, so either sit in the whelping area or bring mum and pup to the bed/sofa.

He may have figured out that it comes out of the syringe with less effort and become lazy knowing the easier option will be along. I think 10grams is good for such a tiddler, mine gained 30grams and were 210grams + born.

Hope he bucks up

Thanks Rhona, your words are like balm to me, any advice on this is being absorbed so gratefully!!! I am so happy to report that I got him to latch on earlier and suckle a bit, stupidly I had a little weep I was so happy. I hadn't thought to rub his throat to help it go down, have been holding his lips to the teat and when he opens up I put the teat in and hold him there whilst he gets his bearings and starts to get his tongue latched. Thankfully the back teats are the perfect size for him as some of the rest are too large or aren't pushed out enough for him to get a grip. I thought 10g was good for him, he definitely looks much less weedy now, though not nearly as chunky as his siblings. I'll update again later, hopefully get continues to improve!

Well today has been pretty miserable; this evening Oreo, the tiny puppy, had some kind of seizure. After feeding he went rigid and I couldn't get any response from him. After vigorous rubbing and a swing, he came back up and breathing and squeaking again, and all was fine for about an hour or so. I checked on him over and over again, but when I picked him up for his feed he was completely rigid again. I tried the same as before, swung him, and a lot of green mucus stuff came out of his nose. I aspirated but no matter what I did he wouldn't come to. He died whilst my husband was on the phone to the emergency vet, I am in pieces but relieved it happened now instead of later. Thankfully my bitch is calmer now once she'd seen the body she stopped looking for him and settled with the other four pups, who are so healthy and fat it almost makes me cry that Oreo couldn't be the same.

Thank you all so much for your invaluable advice, I can't express how priceless this forum is.

aww beth im so sorry to read this hun i was so rooting for him like so meny here ,life is cruel ,it makes me wonder why we do this but now your girl will relax and so can you and enjoy the 4 beauties you have but my heart goes out to you it really does!! :(....R.I.P....Oreo run free over the bridge xxx

Oh how sad, at least you know you gave him every chance.  Sleep well little Oreo.x

Beth I am so sorry, it wasn't meant to be but you did all you possibly could so don't beat yourself up, enjoy those other youngsters they grow so fast.

RIP Wee Oreo

{{{{HUGS}}}}

So sorry RIP little Oreo x x

Thanks everyone. I don't think I was fully prepared for it but now I can move on and concentrate on the other puppies and mum. I think it helps that this forum knows exactly what it feels like as I'm sure many of you have been through the same thing.

Oh bless him, I'm so sorry. He'll be by your side forever, rip sweetheart xx

I'm so sorry he died, but you know it was probably going to happen no matter what you did. Sometimes they just aren't meant to survive and thrive.

RIP little Oreo x x

So sorry that this pup didn't make it, but better now than later, or a lifetime of ill health.    It's so hard when it happens, and I doubt anyone ever gets 'used to it'

You did everything possible to give  him a chance, no one could have done more, try to remember that when you're feeling down.

I'm so sorry to hear he didn't make it :( Fly free little Oreo xxx