I've been using newspaper for the new pup, but I heard him ripping it this morning. How can I stop him doing this?

I have some pee sheets from when my other dog had bladder stones (weak bladder after op but fully recovered now). I was thinking of letting the pup use these, but when I put one down he tossed it up in the air and was trying to play with it. So that was the end of the pee sheets.

Why bother with either? It's easier to teach them to go outside from the start.

Ditto, the only time I have used them when I had some free was in an airline travel crate.  I'd be more worried about the ingestion of the padding and the gel.

If you could avoid using pee pads it would help massively with toilet training. I used them for one pup and he was over 7mnths before has was house trained!!! That bad!!
My next pup I went through taking him out when necessary and he was toile trained within a few weeks pretty much.
These essentially teach the dog it's ok to toilet in the house which is not really ok, lol!!

I've not used either for housetraining my pups over the years.  I reasoned that by doing so I would be teaching them that there are places indoors where it is acceptable to toilet.  This just seems to be putting in an extra step that the pups then have to unlearn.

I use a cheap small pen outside - a "pee pen", where i would like the pup to go.  I go outside with them in all weathers and at all times of the day or night - armed with treats for when they go in the right place.  The "pee pen" ensures that the pup doesn't wander all over the garden getting distracted whilst choosing a place to wee.  After a short while the ground within the pen must smell right to them :-)  I've also found that where the pen is placed is where the dog will prefer to go even after the pen is no longer there - so a chance to choose an area of the garden that you don't mind them using.

It's also very easy to attach a cue word to the act of weeing etc - which can be very useful later on.  I use the word "quickly" for my girls - since it comes naturally to me whilst stood in a rainy, windy garden in the dark!

Another plus of the pen is that it is easier to pick up after the dog since you have a more limited area to clear up.

I would not use the pads for fear that they could be harmful if eaten but have always used newspaper overnight or whenever leaving a pup for an hour or so and still managed to housetrain in a very short time, usually a week to 10 days.  I think the level of vigilance during the day is what matters.

Have you not read anything all the other posters have advised about your housetraining problems? (bangs head against wall). We keep saying, don't use paper, don't use pads - take the pup into the garden to be clean.

> Have you not read anything all the other posters have advised about your housetraining problems? (bangs head against wall).

Of course I have, which is why I am relating MY experience. :)
Actually rereading the quote I don't think you meant to reply to my post but rather the OP, nevertheless, I would still like to point out that I have found using paper overnight does not inhibit housetraining in any way.

> I've been using newspaper for the new pup, but I heard him ripping it this morning. How can I stop him doing this?

Don't give him the opportunity

Pups make their own entertainment with whatever is available so either don't use paper at all or remove it as soon as your pup wakes.

It's likely that your pups breeder kept the litter on newspaper at some stage in their lives - most do - so pups are well used to toiletting on paper if encouraged to do so.  At this stage however (I think your pup is a bit older?) then you need to be concentrating on getting him outside.  Wrap up warm and spend time in the garden with him, it's your job to tell him what is expected and unfortunately it often means a lot of time outdoors.  Get thermals!!

> I use a cheap small pen outside - a "pee pen", where i would like the pup to go. 

Must make that sugggestion to future puppy buyers.  In the USA the people had two expens joined together to make one area for this purpose as their large garden wasn't generally dog proof enough for pups.  The older dogs had big dog runs.

>> I use a cheap small pen outside - a "pee pen", where i would like the pup to go.
> Must make that sugggestion to future puppy buyers.

I took that advice from Alysce for my youngest pup and it worked brilliantly.  If you have a winter puppy it makes the whole process so much easier as the pup learns to go quickly in one place, instead of ambling around exploring first - leaving you stood waiting in the cold and rain!

It also means that anyone can 'pee' the puppy.  My teenagers could pop him in there and he'd wee just as quickly for them too, even if they did forget his cue word :)

My pen was easily moved so I had it in one spot for weeing, and moved it to another area to provide a safe contained area for eating bones  (the other dogs could look but not steal)

dotto with some of previous posts...wee wee pads newspaper ect are inho a waste of time. much simpler to pop the pup out where you want him to toilet.  no point in telling him he can toilet in the house and then later say 'no, i have changed my mind i now want you to toilet outside'.

I totally agree with all the posters who say not to use paper or any other thing in the house. Like someone else has said it is giving a puppy mixed messages right from the beginning. Why let it pee or pooh in the house when it can & should be taken outside to pee or pooh???!!!

I never realised about the danger of the pee sheets. Thanks for the warning! Good job I didn't use them. Well, except for putting one sheet down for a few seconds til he started playing with it. So it was a non-starter. 
We thought it would be too cold for him outside that's why we used the paper. And in case he would have an accident at night.

@Marisa "Have you not read anything all the other posters have advised about your housetraining problems? (bangs head against wall). We keep saying, don't use paper, don't use pads - take the pup into the garden to be clean."

Mum was worse than me for thinking he could go on the paper for another while. I don't know how long, she didn't seem to have any solid plans. I was worried going on paper would go on too long and kept telling her but she insisted on keeping him on the paper for another while.  Anyway I've convinced her now with what people have said on here and advice from a friend at a dog club. And I've got a spare coat from my other dog that he can wear. It's a bit big on him but not too bad. He's not even afraid of it and was happy to try it on. So I'll get him a smaller one tomorrow. I was out washing the car today and Mum took him out, and he did his pee outside. Then 15 mins later he had an accident. He's been out since and did more pee. He saw my other dog pooing and was very interested.

@ Dogs a Babe "unfortunately it often means a lot of time outdoors.  Get thermals!!"   I wasn't worried about myself being cold. Sure I'd a thick coat and a scarf on. It was about the puppy getting cold and catching a chill. I never said I didn't want to stand outside, it was about the puppy getting cold because sometimes he shivered when he was out. I always knew and expected to be standing out for ages with a puppy as I did years ago when my other dog was puppy.

What is this pee-pen? I've never heard of such a thing before.

Surely if he is a double coated Spitz breed he doesn't need a coat????  A rub down once he si back indoors if the snow is deep, or feet need a wipe.

I have had 4 week old Elkie pups playing out in what goes for snow in Bristol.

Beachview, you need to also be giving the dog a treat when he toilets outside.  This will be especially important if he has previously been encouraged to toilet inside.  Praise just isn't going to have enough impact.

The pee pen is a great idea, and don't underestimate the amount of pees and poos a pup can do in a day. I've counted 12 wees and 7 poos before now. Being vigilant takes up a lot of time and consistency but it does pay off.

A pee pen sounds a good idea for us if we get a puppy in the future as we have a huge garden to poo pick :) How do you progress with it as the puppy grows etc ? Do you just open a bit of it so the puppy can walk into it by itself or is it 'open' from the start ? Can't imagine having to lift a large puppy every time and, of course, a puppy needs to learn to take itself to the place :)

You need a gated panel. 

I would imagine it is easy enough to walk bigger pup to the pen on lead, and it can step through the door of the panel.

I would think that once the habit of going to that place has been formed, then the pen can be opened or removed. 

> You need a gated panel.

It would probably be too expensive to get proper panels for us and we have no intention of breeding :) but I'm sure OH could make some sturdy panels up (similar to a rabbit run) - they can be hinged very easily with cable ties :)

Excellent idea :) :)

Actually the six/eight panel  puppy pens are not that expensive http://www.petplanet.co.uk/product.asp?dept_id=774&pf_id=51182 and they fold suitacase style I think. 

You can unlink and join two, to give a decent size area.  They can be very useful when camping, for containement while outside the van/tent.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8-SIDED-METAL-DOG-PUPPY-RABBIT-PET-PLAY-PEN-RUN-SMALL-/390530687346?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Dogs&hash=item5aed716172

This is the sort of pen that might be useful - depending on the size of your breed - second hand on Ebay :-)

Dogs definitely can learn specific areas to toilet. My old Goldie knows that when she is at my Mum's house she heads off down to the bottom of their huge garden, under the trees (so she doesn't damage their lawn).

The puppy pen doesn't need to be substantial because you will be with the pup supervising.  So lightweight but pegged into the grass worked for us.

I didn't even bother with pegs.  I lifted the side to walk him in, and lifted it again to let him out as soon as he'd finished - after woohoo praise and a biscuit :)

Doing without pegs also meant I could move the pen from his wee spot to his eating spot

He was never left out there alone and I was always at arms reach.  V important when he leaned his chicken wing on the side and nearly folded himself in like a 'bun in a toast rack'.  Cute   ...but might have been a difficult accident to explain to his breeder!!

I got Croft puppy panels from Freecycle to make ours

> Actually the six/eight panel  puppy pens are not that expensive

True - but it would probably be more use for us indoors to restrict a puppy's movement when not supervised :) OH can make an outdoor one for no cost :)

I'll probably have forgotten all this by the time we get our next dog :) :)

Yep quite agree some galvanised stock fence and some angle iron stakes and bobs your uncle.  You can even leave a bit to be a gate that you pull back and then close with a trigger hook or two.

Always worth keeping ears open for bargains too - last year I picked up a 6ft x 11ft wooden kennel and run for absolutely nothing, just needs a clean and reassembling.  I got it as a chicken coop but it would be ideal for this sort of thing as it could be set up just with the run and one side of the kennel (which is basically a small shed) so the door can be used.

@ Brainless, Yes he's double coated but he was shivering.Suppose it must be because he's still a puppy and mustn't have his full coat yet. I put a coat on him when he goes out at night but he doesn't need it during the day. I always keep a path cleared in the snow for the dogs. :)