I have just spent ages chatting to a man on the phone who lost his dog just before Xmas to cancer. Sadly prevelant in my breed. The call was about his dissagreement with his insurance company who are not paying out the full repacement value (About £1000 ) for his dog but a percentage taking into consideration her age, health and the fact that she was speyed. I helped him as much as I could though feel he is wrong and her "Current market value" (Insurance company wording) was vitually nothing. A speyed BMD of 7 years old with cancer is worth nothing really (Hard but true) Had the insurance promised a replacement amount it would have been different.
We chatted briefly about the breed and he asked if I were a breeder the conversation progressed to when I would have a litter and ...Did I sell to dealers for re-sale or could he get a puppy off me direct!!!! With further digging it transpired his pup had come via a shop...no idea if it had hip/elbow scoring done, no idea if the parents temps were good, no idea if it was born and raised in a kennel or house...He saw nothing wrong in that (He may now have a better idea of why he went about it the wrong way ;-) ;-) ...) During our chat it transpired that he had claimed over £12,000 over the last 5 years for vet fee's to keep this girl fit... Not the healthiest of dogs by all accounts.
Wonder if that has anything to do with the breeding !!
Education is a huge part of many of the phone calls I get and I am constantly shocked at the complete lack of research some puppy byers do when they are thinking of parting with over £1,000 or thier hard earned cash. Without that call he may well have walked off to the nearest pet shop and tried to get another pup withas little thought as he did the first. He may well still do that...who knows.. I do know he would not have passed my initial phone vetting ;-)
Aileen

I did a puppy visit last week with a couple who had just bought from a 'breeder' as they put it. They were very wary and had had to overcome their initial suspicions because the 'breeder' had admitted she was a 'breeder' (had two breeds, all living in the house and well cared for). They were concerned she must be in it for the money, at first, but I met a beautiful pup who came with all the paperwork you would expect, breeder support and obviously well reared. They told me that they were far more tempted to buy from 'kennels' where the dogs are all kept outside, multiple breeds etc, litters always available because they felt (god knows why) that was somehow less commercial. The husband had bought his first Lab from such a place and never had any problems. I did point out that responsible Lab breeders would have had all the health tests done, which he'd never heard of but, as his dog appeared to be fine, that was the type of environment he was drawn back to. I did feel that this recent positive experience wouldn't necessarily mean they would go back to a breeder in the future as they were incredulous that they had come away with a nice puppy and I had to reassure them that they had done the right thing. It's amazing how some people think isn't it?

Yep this man too when asked if his girl came from a good breeder suggested that commertial breeders are good...because they have lots of breeds and have expierience with breeding...as oposed to a small home breeder who is not so expierienced in breeding.....words failed me !! (Thats rare! )
Aileen

aaaargh ! Dont think many people are learning !

In a way they are right in avoiding the casual 'back yard breeder', we somehow have to get through that there is the 'Serious specialist breed enthusiast breeder' as well as the BYB and Commercial breeder out there.

I think the short first answer is first find a breeder who does something more with their dogs than breeding from them.

I have to laugh, though I agree with you, he should have researched better, if he did at all.  But you know, we pick our significant others without research so I think I understand why it doesn't occur to folks. 

But here's a laugh for you.  My girlfriend had terrible, terrible teeth.  She met a fellow, got engaged, got married, worked at her job, saved some money and arranged for extensive dental surgery.  I was with her and her husband at a social function where one of his acquaintances jokingly told him, "Ah, you should have picked a girl with good teeth to start with, would have been cheaper."  Much to the surprise of all of us who knew this gal, this insensitive man lived to see another day, :)  but really, didn't he have a point?

> "Ah, you should have picked a girl with good teeth to start with, would have been cheaper." 

He may have been right as chances are some of the children would also inherit the bad teeth (assuming this was not a case of neglect).

Reminds me of the series Frazier where the work friend gets pregnant and then the future grandparents visit and show photos of the baby's father, they and he had huge noses, then she dug out her own school pics where she had buck teeth.  So she realised the baby could well end up having these traits.

. But you know, we pick our significant others without research so I think I understand why it doesn't occur to folks.

Dare I say.........this is exactly what I did    when I met my OH, I was pleased to find  that I was in school with ALL of his cousins - three of them were in my class in primary school (very large Catholic family).    My parents also knew their families, and yet I'd never met OH and his brother when in school.     I did know that they were decent family oriented people and none of them are short, since I'm under 5' this is very important to me  -  OH is average height but there are tall people in the family too.  I really didn't want any children I might have to be as short as me   :-D   

I didn't have the luxury of being able to get his family's medical details however (this may have seemed intrusive LOL )   but I did marry the healthiest sibling - although that was sheer luck as I don't have a crystal ball :-D

Brainless,

I love that episode of Frasier, it just brings home how much Americans have messed up - at least over this side of the pond you can be fairly sure that if you meet someone they are the original model :-)

I don't know what the answer is with people not researching when buying a pup.   I have spent so much time helping people identify a really good breeder, only to find they go off and buy a byb or commercially bred one.   I don't think it's cost, there seems to be no difference between a health tested show bred pup and a BYB one,???

A couple of years ago I was on the phone to a girl who was organising a job interview for me, she said 'On your CV it says that you're really into dogs and have grooming experience, I've just got a puppy so I'm a bit dog mad too!' We had a little chat and she told me she got this Pug puppy from a breeder who... wait for it... was so good she didn't have to work, she just bred dogs to support herself! Somehow that made her a great breeder.

I was looking at a 'breeders' site awhile ago, had lots of pups for sale of diffrent breeds and they were saying on there site they take health very importantly (but no mention of any health testing) and as such they dont allow there boys to be used at outside stud, they wont use outside studs and they dont buy in new dogs so no diease can be brought in.
I was sitting there thinking, well if they wont get in new blood how related are there dogs, but i guess to some poeple that would sound like a good idea.

I have to say that even MY HUSBAND has been heard to say that
your average punter will think, those who do things professionally (staff, kennels, office etc) are far more appropriate  to buy from than a rank amateur .. (Like me)

John Lewis -v- homemade TV for example.

I've learned not to get onto the subject of breeder versus puppy farm / backyard breeders, my hubby says I am snobbish and look down my nose at crossbreeds and poorly bred dogs. I most certainly do not - but I do wish I could politely educate people not to buy from backyard breeders or puppy farmers. He doesn't see what's wrong with people who breed from dogs that are 'just' pets. Luckily I'm in charge of dog buying!!

> my hubby says I am snobbish and look down my nose at crossbreeds and poorly bred dogs.

I don't look down on the dogs as they are innocent, and sadly some destined to avoidable pain and suffering.

I most certainly do look down on their breeders.

I sometimes wonder if those who pay way over the odds for things think they are getting a more superior product I.e a better dog. I always check price comparison websites and recommend research when buying a pup. Sadly, many people need educating that paying stupid amounts for a dog (or anything else for that matter)does not guarantee the best of the best. Sounds like this guy learnt the hard way. Thank god for insurance too.. £12000..eek!!!

Its a vicious cycle, I looked on preloved this week and was horrified to see one couple selling their dog and saying that being a Spitz breed it can't be bathed but has to be clipped at the groomers every 3months (don't sound like breeder showed them or told them what to do) another selling a 10months old pup as she has young children and they need her attention (so sounds like breeder wasn't very discerning selling to this woman)  and there is no way its going to breed rescue for nothing when it cost her 800 quid than what a well bred one goes for. Also a litter of Alaskan mals x GSD's who at 6weeks old the breeder can tell they've tool on all the best things of both breeds including health, I despair between the gullible buyers and greedy breeders and the throw away let someone else sort it,the life of dogs will remain in the same crap way it does now and will do for many years to come :(

Last week, Dogs Today posted that a TV company were looking for responsible breeders with a litter due in February, to follow the bitch through pregnancy, birth and raising the puppies.

I am hoping they got some good responses - how better to get the message across re: how much hard work it is - and presumably, finding the right puppy owners. Great idea... except it is a children's TV show so the puppy-buying adults out there probably won't get to see it. I had no influence over my parents when new pets were chosen for my family, and I can't see how it will influence adults. This kind of thing needs to be aired more widely... but it's a start I suppose...

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">I have to say that even MY HUSBAND has been heard to say that<br />your average punter will think, those who do things professionally (staff, kennels, office etc) are far more appropriate  to buy from than a rank amateur .. (Like me)<br /><br />John Lewis -v- homemade TV for example.

Ah see that isn't how it is though in the case of good breeders is it?

John Lewis versus bespoke hand crafted piece built to my very own specifications put together by a crafts person with a wealth of experience? I'll have that compared to off the shelf any day :)

Precisely !

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">I am hoping they got some good responses - how better to get the message across re: how much hard work it is - and presumably, finding the right puppy owners. Great idea... except it is a children's TV show so the puppy-buying adults out there probably won't get to see it. I had no influence over my parents when new pets were chosen for my family, and I can't see how it will influence adults. This kind of thing needs to be aired more widely... but it's a start I suppose...

more 4 showed a good documentary at the end of crufts BIS last year. Does seem we are fighting a losing battle though :(