Hi,

Melvin (nearly 4) was in the vets all day today for some chest xrays and an abdominal ultrasound - he's been drinking and peeing more, but all tests were normal and everything inside 'looks' ok, hoooray!  The vet had hoped to do it all without sedation, but had to sedate him in the end because he was fidgeting too much.

So 3 hours after I collected him there was a problem with his bottom, it just became severely irritated.  Off we go the the vet again, who decided he had an allergic reaction to the lubricant the vet had used to check his prostate!  Poor Melvin!  Anyway, the vet also remarked on how surprised she was that he was still so dopey because it should have worn off by now.  She then said that some dogs are slower, but it just worried me a bit.  I'm just after some reassurance really, those of you whose dogs have been sedated for these kind of procedures, how long did it take for it to wear off?

Thanks,

Clare

I'm more surprised that the vet expected him to be totally over it TBH.  One of my girls had sedation Monday morning for x-rays and she looked for ages as if she'd just had a spliff!!   :-)

I was surprised too!  I hadn't been remotely worried about it before she said anything.  It was the night vet though, not the one who actually sedated him - maybe she doesn't do many sedations, or gives smaller doses.

Thanks for the reassurance.  Melvin is definitely a bit doo-lally at the moment!

Mine are sedated then given anaesthetic when MRI scanned, it takes a good day to get over it and the next day they have this strange 'big eyed' look.

Oh dear me - poor Melvin!

I agree with the others I wouldn't expect normal for at least 48 hours and 72 isn't unusual

Both of my bigger boys (30kg) have tried to pee after sedation and simply toppled over - or at least they would if I hadn't caught them mid slump or held them up.  They seem to come out of the vets with a rush of "coming home" enthusiasm til it quite quickly dawns on them that they're incapable of walking in a straight line.  At this point my dogs simply konk out for hours and hours - I wonder if it's partly the relief at being home

My youngest dog was quite disorientated for a few days last time he had a GA and, upon waking, sometimes looked as if he didn't know where he was.  Mind you he'd had an ear procedure so that might have contributed to his fuzzy head feeling

Give Melvin a hug from us - I'm glad it all looks normal x

Dogs with a lower amount of body fat tend to take longet to get over these things than chubbier animals. I know my dog had a general just after xmas. She is very slim. I think the expression is "more fat on a cold chip" (And yet she eats twice as much as any of the others). Anyway she was not herself for about 3 days.
If Melvin is on the slim side it will take him longer to recover.

One of the reasons why I would prefer a general anaesthetic to sedation where appropriate.  Modern general anaesthetics  have short half-lives and these days are generally used with very short acting induction agents.

It must have been quite a deep sedation because I'd expect a dog to be walking within 15 minutes of the reversal injection being given and to all appearances normal within 3 hours. A general anaesthetic takes a lot longer to clear the system - certainly 24 hours.

One of my girls had some lipomas removed on Wednesday and she was sedated first as she gets very stressed whilst waiting.  Then she had GA but she was still dopey when I got her home. 

Others of them that have gone in for one reason or another who dont get stressed, arn't sedated and as others have said, a quick GA and they have walked out bright as buttons. 

2 of them were sedated a few years ago by another Vet who did hip scoring and they were both out for the day.  I'd have much have preferred them to have had a sniff of GA to be honest.

Posted earlier in the year about this, have always preferred a GA to sedation but was assured that these days they can be reversed as quickly as a GA but my boy only had some minor investigation done but it was 4 days before he was anything like back to normal and I will not be keen to do that again.

Thanks all, it's good to know that he's not the only dog to be doped up for longer than expected.  He slept in my room last night, and alternated between lying on my head, on my legs or clinging on to me from the side.  He was quite agitated but seemed to be reassured by touch.  He's a bit brighter this morning, but definitely isn't himself yet and is quite whingey.  If he doesn't perk up some more by this afternoon, I'll give the vets another ring.

I didn't particularly want him sedated, but having lost a dog under GA I'm (no doubt irrationally) scared of them unless entirely necessary.  I have no experience of anything but mild sedation (ACP I think, which is given when hip scoring in Southampton), so didn't realise what a massive effect it could have. 

What with a sore bum, and a terrible hair cut, poor Melvin's not had a good couple of days!  Here's the rather extensive crew cut they gave him in order to ultrasound his abdomen.  Poor boy will be the laughing stock for a while :-(

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152440623020035&set=a.10152216787045035.931344.680525034&type=1&permPage=1

I'm surprised that a vet still uses ACP thought it was one of the sedatives they had problems with, certainly goes back for years remember using it in the 1960's and even then it was not considered good to use unless you had to, at the time it could not be reversed and could cause the dog to become aggressive.

Would not worry too much, although I did, but it took my Solli at least 4 days to return to anything like normal, mind you even Solli's normal leaves much to be desired.

That was the vet who accompanies the hip scoring lady in Southampton.  I do wonder if it was just a token amount, because it had virtually no effect on either of my dogs!  This, on the other hand, has turned Melvin into a very dopey boy (well, even more dopey than normal!)

When I've used Marilyn the hip-scorer in Southampton, both dogs have been x-rayed before the sedation had reached full effect.  Which meant that it was something of a struggle to get them to lie still and then they would shortly afterwards look very drunk and start falling over.  (I also have worried about people being in that room when the x-rays are taken, holding the dogs down.  Perhaps not so bad for the owner, who only gets exposed once, but for the people taking the x-rays, they are exposed repeatedly...)

> but for the people taking the x-rays, they are exposed repeatedly...)

This is specifically against the BVA guidelines.  Like you say, there would be little risk in leaving the owner with the dog but I can't imagine why they would repeatedly expose themselves like that.

They do provide people with lead apron things to wear, but those don't cover the whole body.

> ACP I think

This drug nearly killed my bitch, she had sedation with this and had a severe reaction to it, she was fitting and really out of it.  My vet assured me that he had never heard of a dog reacting this way to ACP,  3 months later when we went back to the vet (a different one) he told me that normally only boxers had reactions to this drug.

My old vet told me that ACP is well-known as a trigger for fitting in susceptible dogs.

Aimed at no on in particular but just to clarify, ACP wasn't the drug given to my dog yesterday (thought I needed to reiterate that in case anyone finds this thread in a panic one day), it's just the only sedative I've any experience of and it didn't have any effect on my dogs at all.  I hadn't heard that it was so dangerous, I'll certainly look into it if it's ever likely to be offered again.

>and is quite whingey.

In actual fact, as my girl was whingey and probably for over 24 hours, I did mention it to the vet.  If she was in pain, then I wanted something for pain relief.  When I was told that many dogs do this involuntarily due to the opiates used, it made perfect sense.  I've seen dogs wheeled out of the operating theatre after a GA, howling at full strength - fast asleep!  :-)

Saw the photo - poor boy :-(  doesn't do a lot for his street cred!

He's still a bit whingey!  That's interesting your vet told you it was a common after effect.  It'd be reassuring to be told that in advance, but I suppose they don't want to dismiss all whinging as a normal side effect.

You'll be pleased to know I've ordered him an equafleece tankie, something I didn't think would be required for a fit and healthy 39 kg Labrador, but the shaved part goes around to the other side too - that's a significant amount of his body now bald!

Think the problem with vets telling people anything is to be expected is that people stop reporting it and so the vets do not really know how common a problem is nor how severe it may be because if the dog is not presented how can they know.

As I said my dog took an age to recover but I did not ask my vet I asked on here and was told it is possible mind you it was over a week till he was really on the way back to his self - told the vet how long it took but I got the distinct impression they were not really interested - should he need it again I will be having words then.

Not really dog related but possibly relevant.  I am terrified of dentists, it has got worse over the years to the point where I can control myself for an exam but from teh second the local needle goes in I shake like a leaf from start to finish and am very jittery afterwards, the local takes a while to kick in and 8 or more hours to wear off.  Frequently it would begin to wear off and restart with a vengeance.  I mentioned this to one dentist years ago who shrugged it off.  This is the same dentist who shrugged and said "Mmm that happens sometimes" when my face swelled up due to an abcess.

I mentioned it to another dentist years later who said that is absolutley not right and changed the local they use.  I now find it wears off in a couple of hours and because the normal one contains adrenaline whereas this one does not I am actually nowhere near as shaky or wired.  Think my body has enough adrenaline when I am there without adding to it.  So considering that is just a local I would say that it is totally possible that your boy would take some time to process it all out of his system.

I can see where your logic has gone with that, Roxylola :) but the adrenaline is not an anaesthetic component but is there to help staunch bleeding and therefore is highly unlikely to be used for an xray for instance.  Even during surgery, if a general anaesthetic is given they are unlikely to use adrenaline as they will be able to use cautery on any bleeding and, infact, would probably want to see exactly where those bleeding points are so adrenaline would not be helpful.
As I said, anaesthetics have a very short half-life, ie they are rapidly gone from the body.  What lingers is the induction agent (that which knocks you out) so it is worth asking what is used, modern induction agents such as Propofol being preferred although they can be more expensive. 
Or alternatively the cause of the slow recovery could be because a sedative has been given.  So again worth discussing if that will be necessary and why.

Clare, only just seen this.. I don't know if this is any help to you.. I have never lost (unlike you) a dog under GA or sedation, but Tia reacts very badly to both.. and has taken 3 reversals in the past.. although Melvin not directly related to Tia, there is an ancestral connection with Beanie and Tia.. it is possible that it is something in my lines that take a while for dogs to fully recover.. I do remember Beanie came round very quickly after her GA for health testing, but was very quiet for a few days, very unlike Beanie.. hope this helps put your mind at rest.. and hope Melvin gets back to his normal self soon :)

Thanks Kay, you must have been very scared when Tia's been under! He's almost entirely back to normal now and managed a really good play in the snow.... and has a very attractive fleece tanktop to help keep the bald bits warm :-) :-)  It certainly knocked him for six, more so than a GA did, but I think he's enjoyed the extra attention and cuddles.

that's interesting Roxylola as I was very similar when I was young - terrified of dentists, and they had to give me the local 20 minutes before trying to drill, or I would still feel it. And once a dentist wouldn't believe I was still feeling it and kept going with me screaming - not fun! And it would take hours to wear off. I don't know if my current dentist uses a different one or if I've just improved somewhat, as although it still takes a while to take effect, I don't think it's particularly slow to wear off anymore.

Poor Melvin! Hope the snow and his new tankie cheer him up a bit and that you are feeling more relaxed about his ordeal, Clare. Big hugs to the big man xx

Glad Melvin is up and about,I had to take Annie to a vets in Penrith due to a very painful paw,it was on a sunday,dont know why but I had a gut feeling that the young vet on duty had very little experience,Annie was xrayed under sadation and we couldnt even move her out of the car she slept for hours,my own vet would never send a animal home like that,I have leart a big lesson.

Sheila