So I am having my eight month old PMD puppy back that I bred because she has been fighting with her littermate. I am not a regular breeder and just have them as pets. I am wondering what the chance is that she will fight with her (now spayed) mother? Her mother is usually friendly with other dogs but is very intolerant of any aggression towards her and will fight back immediately. I am worried because I don't really have anywhere to separate her where she will not be very isolated and on her own. They are outdoor dogs so not house trained. I have two JRTs in the house that are very aggressive with strange dogs so that isn't an option. I am hoping she will get on with her mother. What do you think?

Please don't lecture me about not selling two littermates to the same home. I know that now and am not ever intending to breed again. Thanks :)

Do you know anyone that would be willing to help by taking any of your other dogs whilst you get this youngster assessed and rehomed?  My immediate worry would be her temperament as she is the one you need to move on.

Do you mean that this 8 month old is not housetrained?  If that's the case you WILL need to rectify this before you attempt to rehome her

In the meantime I'd invest in babygates at most of your downstairs doorways so that you can separate her from the JR's, and keep her away from her mother too unless you are there to supervise.  Do not be tempted to leave them alone together as the youngster will have got used to rough play with her litter mate and is likely to have poor manners as far as the mother is concerned.  Do be  careful with your introductions

Also can you get some help from your breed rescue?

You won't know without trying, chances are they won't recognise each other unless they have had regular contact in between, they will be strangers to each other and need introducing accordingly starting off on neutral ground on a walk controlled on leads and fully supervised at home till you are sure they are safe together and this may take weeks.

If her dam doesn't accept her then her sire may but you need to deal with getting him castrated first either surgically or chemically, she is far too young to spay as other parts of her body need the reproductive hormones to mature, in a giant breed the bones in particular to prevent future problems.

There is a strong chance she will fall out with her mothers but you can only hope she does not.

I think it depends on the right meeting, and hope for the best. I don't think as a rule mothers and daughters don't get along, my two are best of friends but they're also very avoiding of any conflict. x

Beth your 2 have been together since birth,these have been apart about 6 months so are strangers.

How old is the dam, if older and set in her ways then she may be less accepting, if still very young and puppy like she may be happy to have a play buddy.

Sorry I missed that bit, teach me to skim read, thought they had only been apart for a short while.

Don't worry I miss things at time too,in this case there are 2 threads with varying info.

LOL I just answered the wrong thread (wish we had a red face :-O)

What's the breed generally like for getting on with others? I have two different breeds and in my toy breed I can bring in any bitch of any age at any time and she will just be accepted without question -never had a problem and done it quite a few times. Entire male dogs my male dog will not accept but all the others will. The breed is very easy going in this respect, rarely fall out and welcome anyone.

My large breed however is a different kettle of fish. My oldest bitch would never accept her daughters (that had gone to new homes) when she met them even away from home, such as at shows -but she always LOVED meeting her sons. Her own daughter in turn had a 14 month old daughter return home just over a year ago. For the first 2 months all was fine and we thought great, this was easy.  Then one day she suddenly turned on her daughter and injured her quite badly, so they had to be split up and now cannot meet at all. I had already removed the older bitch from her daughter as at 12 she was getting on and her daughter wanted to be in charge. So I put the granddaughter with old granny, granny who used to hate her own daughters if she hadn't had them around all the time since they were pups, and they get on like a house on fire and has done for a year now.

It isn't surprising at all that she has been fighting with her litter-mates, same sex similar age dogs are likely to fall out once they reach puberty as there is no clear distinction as to who is in charge.  That is why most breeders would generally never sell two together, or even one to a home that had an existing pup, too high a chance to be in your position of having one, or even both back.

If the pup is good with other dogs generally, and respectful of adult ones then she may well be fine with her mother, as long as she has respect fro Mum, she may be accepted in her turn.

My Jozi came back to me at 8 months and I picked her up at a show where I had taken her Mother and her Mum's litter sister.  I expected the Aunt to be spiky with the Juvenile delinquent, but it was the other way around.  Mum was very off with her, and simply would have no truck with her until she showed some respect, three days later when she moderated her approach and was respectful Mum accepted her and initiated play.

But again as Marianne has found with her toy breed, mine get on with all comers generally.

You need to introduce them on neutral ground, and be able to separate them totally in your home if needs be.  Otherwise you'll need to arrange to board her elsewhere until she is re-homed.

We have the same breed as Brainless but I had a pup once, brought into the home at 8 weeks and accepted by the 5 year old bitch immediately although the boys were more wary to start with, all was well until the pup had her first season when she got it into her head that she had to kill the 5 year old, there was no way round this and she had to be re-homed - so there are times and some dogs in any breed that may just become unmanageable with another individual.

Think that it may be more manageable with the toy breeds but I find it hard to believe that bitch on bitch aggression never happens.

Thank you everyone for your advice. I think the best move maybe to bring her into the house. I am a little worried in case she gets one of my chihuahua sized JRTs as they can get through baby gates. It's such a worry. Her Mum is generally friendly on neutral ground with other dogs and was fine when a male dog came into her yard, but not sure about bitches. She is quite a 'fighty' dog IF they show aggression towards her. She's 6 and lives with the pup's father. I have not heard back from the owners of the pup as to when they are bringing her. I am expecting it to be today or tomorrow. I do have a kennel and run I could put her in, but is is very isolated and really don't want to have to do this.

I'd be more worried that the JRT's would gang up on the pup.

Isolating her is not a good idea,you need to assess her during everyday life so you can give an honest opinion to prospective buyers as well as working on house training and doggie etiquette in general.

Well she's not coming back to me now, not for the time being anyway as her owner is too upset to part with her and wants to see if they can work out a way through it. Could spaying of one or both help do you think?

When bitches fight it's usually for life and more serious than when dogs fight, and spaying makes no difference. They need to be extremely careful and never ever leave them alone together.

I tried spaying 2 of my bitches after they had a fight on vets recommendation.  This had no effect whatsoever.  These particular bitches hated each other their entire lives.
There is a saying that males fight to mate and bitches fight to breathe.

I think your friend has made the wrong decision. Bitches are far less likely to learn to get along than dogs. I did have two that did manage to sort out their differences and  be ok together but that is by far the exception rather than the rule. One was much bigger than the other and the small one wanted to take over top position. Big one didn't really want to fight but little one kept pushing and pushing, They had a couple of nasty fights but little one didn't give up. It was only when the big one half killed her (they got together accidentally, child left door open) that she finally got the message that she couldn't win the fight. After that you could see her stop and think and actively avoid big one.

If the two dogs in question are sisters then they are the same age and size so there is nothing really to separate them so they are not likely to sort out the hierarchy problems.  Additionally if these are Pyrenean Mountain dogs then it could become a dangerous situation if they start to fight seriously. I know how hard it was to separate two fighting bitches when one weighed 7Kg and one 25Kg. The idea of trying to split up fighting bitches weighing 35-40 Kg is really scary. Does your friend realise how serious bitches can get about fighting?

I have to echo what others have said re fighting bitches. They almost always have to be kept separate for the rest of their lives. They will fight till one of them is dead. Your puppy owner has no idea what is in store when these two dogs have a major set to, add the fact that they are a giant breed and I don't see how they will have the strength to part them. I have found that bitches can be devious to the extreme in fooling an unsuspecting owner that they really want to be friends with each other,only to have all hell break loose if the owner is daft enough to allow them to be loose together. I have two bitches that hate each other,it took two of us to part them. My two boys who are a good deal bigger and heavier than the bitches I can part them single handed.

have to agree with fighting bitches, they are awful, i could seperate two scrapping rottie males but try seperating to bitches OMG, it is horrible, and this was in a friends kennel, i had two bitches there was two years between them and they got along and then one day decided they hated each other, they would of killed each other if they could of got together and they where a small breed , the decision was hard to make but one of them went off to live with friends and three males and loved it, but if we where in the breed ring together we had to try and get dogs between us as they would kick off even after being seperated the just hated each other .

I agree with the others that this is the wrong decision. I have had two bitches ( unrelated, different breeds and different ages) who didn't like each other and had a couple of fights, and my whole life revolved around taking care that there was never a flashpoint. I coped but it wasn't fun! These were bitches that I could physically seperate--- as has already been said, the thought of a serious bitch fight between two Pyrenean Mountain Dogs is scary. Years ago I knew someone who had two Great Dane litter mate sisters. Both were gentle sweethearts as individuals, but one of them killed the other when they were about 18 months. The fight was too serious and the dogs were too big to be seperated, and she severed the other's jugular. In my experience, unlike dogs who seem to be able to fight and move on, if bitches have once had a fight they will always want to fight with each other. These pups should never have been homed together in the first place.

Interesting thread this. I have two girls who loathe each other and would fight to the death, I suppose, given the opportunity to meet full on. Yet the main protagonist , Zigi, used to have huge issues with another (older) girl in our pack. The latter girl had to be spayed a few years ago and since then she and Zigi have become really good friends. Zigi is now nearly 11, entire, and lovely in all respects. I am going to have her current worst enemy spayed in a couple of months and will be interested to see how/if the situation changes.
Regarding returned puppies, we had a boy come back to us aged 4 and he just walked in and regained his place on the sofa -his favourite as a puppy. Visiting bitches bred by us have settled in but I never feel relaxed knowing how quickly girls can turn on each other. I'm always on my guard at flash points -feeding times, 'dog jams' at gates when going out to play , favourite toys etc. My entire boys get along fine -never any issues even at heat season times.