Hi i've not long homed my beautiful litter of puppies 2 of the new owners of the 3 are being great about letting me know how their wee ones are doing but the last 1 is being obstructive and just got a very nasty text telling me to keep away don't ever contact them and the puppy is theirs now they paid for her right in eyes of the law unfortunately if money exchanged hands then the puppy is their 'property' but i homed her to them on the understanding they'd keep in touch about her and i can even visit anytime as they don't live far from me i seen this as a bonus as i really did want to keep this puppy for myself but can't keep anymore at the moment she was actually meant to go to someone else but they cancelled because change of circumstances anyway being honest i didn't feel right about these people when i first met them first being phoned to see puppies never turned up no phone call nothing phoned them back they said theyd come next day fair enough but i strictly said if they cant make it just let me know just a simple phone or text just to say waited again another day nothing i phoned again to see what was going on and no got a rude text saying got better things to do than phone to say not coming and dont want puppy anymore surely just a quick phone text couldnt hurt to say i did indeed have a waiting list for this litter but as typical a lot of them 'melted' away when the puppies arrived anyway few weeks later they did indeed contact me again saying they changed their minds about getting a puppy and are now ready for 1 hmmm i thought strange but arranged for them to come over so i can meet them everything seemed ok but i felt the guy in the couple i didnt feel right about and to me was a bit intimidating but im not one to judge people after speaking with the lady of the couple it seemed i was reassured to home the puppy to them but it was a situation that was playing on my head for nights on end i just didnt feel right about this home for my puppy so after thinking over decided to call it off i know i felt bad letting them down i phoned them explained but again after the conversation they reassured me they have the perfect home for my puppy i thought about it again as they promised i can come see her anytime and welcome me to be updated but after about a month of homing the puppy with them i casually asked how puppy was as i like to keep in touch with my new owners and i always say they can get in touch with me anytime if they have any problems etc now they are stating they dont want anymore contact with me and basically told me to back off and shut me out for the rest of the puppies life now understandably im upset by this ordeal as she was my 'favourite' and i made sure they understood they would keep in touch i know contracts might not be enforceable by the law what can i do and why would they suddenly tell me not to keep in touch with the puppy its losing me sleep and im very worried now i know probably theres nothing i can do but im very heartbroken it wasn't even a nice way of saying to stay away it was a really nasty text that included some swearing i'm in pieces

this is horrible i can imagen what you muct be going thru :( ...even tho its true once sold they dont belong to us plz dont take this wrong if any dout dont let the ppl have a pup ive learnt the hard way too in the past so i know it never stops but you have to learn from it sorry i dont mean to sound nasty plz dont take it that way :( its just now iv learnt if i get a little feeling dont care how small or silly it is i dont allow i hate not being able to sleep .....some owners are just slow at sending but these sound nasty ppl ((hugs)) x

Could they have changed their minds again and have sold the pup on, when puppy buyers change tack suddenly it is a worry.

Hopefully I am wrong and the man is just a nasty piece of work.

i did think this too but my thinking is the pup could get a lot better home with some1 eles!! could be a blessing for pup maybe??!! ...if you the breeder could you not go and see??!! get some1 eles to watch out for pup (something i would do for pecie of mind) id sit in a car waiting for pup to go awalk ....just a thought??x

I cant imagin how you are feeling, and im sorry this is happening.
By the way they first acted and even saying they didnt want a puppy then suddenly changing there mind and happy to have contact then how there acting now id think they were proberly just promising you contact and visits to win you over to get the pup. Some people just dont want contact with there dogs breeders unfortunatly. Prehaps its the lady who wants the pup and not the guy maby.
Sadly i dont think there is anything you can do to get her back or make them keep you updated with her progress. Just hope they will take care of her propperly even if the guy has a bad attatue doesnt mean she wont be looked after.

You did have plenty of signs that this home would be trouble - they didn't come *twice* when they said they would, they were nasty, they cancelled the puppy and then wanted it again and you got bad vibes about them.  If you STILL let the pup go to them, rather than keep it on and hope to get interest from somewhere else, it's no surprise if they end up being what you thought they were.  There's nothing you can do unfortunately :(

yes thats true Jo i ment to say that too re being well looked after x

Hi thanks for replies everyone yes white lilly that thought that they might have sold her on but don't know i did get an address from them when they got her i made the write it for 'insurance policy' yes i think it was to sweet talk me when they said they will keep in touch what makes me really annoyed is this puppy had the 'perfect home' people was on my waiting list and we spoke ages before and i was more than happy they going to have her but unfortunately unforseen circumstances made them cancel i couldn't believe it gutted is an understatement i wish i can stop bein a 'soft touch' but thanks u lot u really did make me feel a little better and no white lilly i'm not offended what u said i do feel silly i made that bad mistake is there no enforcable contract i can write if in the future i do try for another litter although this has totally put me right off to state i would like to be updated the fact the nasty guy said 'why am i asking all these questions' very defensively and all i said was howz the puppy do they have something to hide this really is winding me up is there not a way i can offer to 'buy' her back

you got to see if they have her still?? if they have what you got to loose id ask ...but without you knowing if she is with them they are going to ignor you ...im just wondering if they signed anything saying they would keep intouch in the pack??? x

Hi rabid yes i know feel really stupid really i do i just felt i would give them a second chance' after they already let me down not turning up white lilly i really don't know if they still have her or not the only thing i got put in writing is stating if they can longer keep her they return her back to me and they signed it but i think i will find a way to see if they still do sitting in a car outside sounds like a good plan i just don't see why the guy had to be so rude and to say that i'm questioning them all the time even when i simply ask how she is doing is that really a crime he actually said i've not to go 'near his home to visit the puppy' why the sudden cold shoulder do they think i want to take her away from them i've got nice people poor souls putting up with me from my last litter 2 years ago willing to keep in touch and do have chat now and again its nice

Lesson learned I'm afraid, always go with your gut instinct. I made a mistake with my first litter of pups myself, it's easily done, the important thing is to learn from it. Sadly there isn't much else you can do. :( It's better to turn ten people down and have to keep several pups, than have even one pup go to a home you're not sure about. I strongly believe nobody should breed unless they are able to keep 2 or 3 pups -not because anybody SHOULD plan to keep more than one (as its never a good idea), but because we can never be 100 % sure that all pups will find good homes, no matter how many homes we have lined up before the pups are born/ready to go. I once lost 11 buyers for one litter when the pups were born, and I have 3 of the pups from that litter living permanently with me.

Yes I agree, lesson learned the hard way.

Dont ever let a puppy go unless you are really happy with your choice of owner...no matter how much you are panicking about being left with one or more...dont !

I feel for you really I do , I had similar with a pup in my last litter , it was the pup I wanted to keep but had a fault due to coat colour so I couldn't show her . I sold her to a lady who was lovely , and I know she has a lovely home and is loved because I checked them out thoroughly beforehand but after the sale , although she agreed to keep me updated on her , she will not return my calls or emails. I have given up now as it has been over a year . I called the day after she left and got her older mother whom lives with her on the phone who said the pup was gorgeous and they loved her so much , but never got to speak to the lady herself. I wish now I had kept this pup just for pet , but hey ho I made a mistake and am having to live with it. I think you get people who just don't want contact but will say anything to get the pup.  I have been lucky with my others and have contact ( not constant ) but I do get updates and this makes me happy.

Can you not go round if they live nearby and just say you don't want confrontation , explain that they are like your babies and you won't hassle them all the time , just an update now and then will keep you happy. I would of done this with mine if the lady didn't live hours away. And if I'm ever travelling that way I will definitely call in.

Oh dear, what a nasty situation,

I too would not have touched them with a barge pole after the let downs and attitude prior to purchase. Sounds a bit like 'good cop, bad cop' the man was blunt and rude, the lady pacifying you, in future both must give you the right feeling. Poor, poor you.

You can't force people to stay in touch, you certainly can not put that into a contract. :-)

Puppy owners stay in touch for two reasons, firstly because they know you are interested and how much the pups mean to you, and secondly because they like to have someone to share their pup/dog stories with and more importantly for your knowledge, friendship and help.

Either these owners do not need your knowledge and find you too much he actually said i've not to go 'near his home to visit the puppy' and feel that you can't let go, threatening their feeling of ownership, so would prefer you to back off completely.

Or they have sold the pup on and are not honest in some way, their first dealings indicate they are just not nice people and very selfish. Whether your pup is ok, I don't know..........

To cover the first reason, you have nothing to lose hun, so write them a letter/e-mail explaining how important it is to know that your pup is ok and everything is going well, that you are sorry if you have come across as pushy but it is your first litter and even though you know of course the pup is now their property you still as the breeder care very much for your pups and want to stay on friendly terms incase of re-homing or any help needed in the future. Say that you hope to hear in the future that all is well........ and then leave it at that.

The pup is no longer yours, you have no claim on her at all..... You can check with the KC to see if a transfer of ownership has happened and if the pup has been passed on, you can ask the KC to forward a letter for you to the new owners introducing yourself as the breeder and asking (not wanting) if they would give you the odd update, aside from that there is nothing you can do.

I don't know if you have come across too pushy the whole thing sounds very nasty, I am sorry from the bottom of my heart that you have lost contact so soon, as a breeder I and others feel your pain here, I would hate it, but you'll have to let go or it will drive you crazy. {[hug}}

From my first litter I had two owners I didn't hear from, even after sending emails to see how they had settled.

I felt confident they were in the right homes, but had to accept that they were no longer my puppies.

I am sorry to say that I honestly don't understand why you didn't take heed.  :-(  The writing was on the wall, and you chose to ignore it.

I have had people back down after being on my waiting list, and have never worried or panicked that I would be "stuck" with one.  You have found out what happens to your horror.

The pup is property, and you have no power over the new owner of that property.  They could quite easily complain about you harrassing them if you take things too far.  They are within their rights in objecting to being pestered.

I have heard of many people who have this kind of thing happen to them, and they have said they won't be so daft "next time" - yet it happens again!

I do hope that you decide not to breed again.  In the current climate, your nice owners are feeling the pinch.  And, like others, I would rather keep a whole litter than not listen to my gut feelings.

I once had a phone call from someone who had used one of my boys for stud.  She phoned me in a quandary as she had had folk visit that wanted a puppy, yet she felt totally uneasy about them and answers that seemed to be contradicted were worrying her.  I told her to go with her gut.  She would never have been able to settle if she had let that puppy go to them. 

I do know that some people feel uncomfortable saying no.  I do realise that it isn't easy.  But I have said no to quite a few.  And I only feel a twinge at having to say no.  Once they have gone I am so relieved that I had the nerve.

I sold her to a lady who was lovely , and I know she has a lovely home and is loved because I checked them out thoroughly beforehand but after the sale , although she agreed to keep me updated on her , she will not return my calls or emails. I have given up now as it has been over a year .

I don't ever give up as such, because the way I see it, if I keep in touch then I have proved I AM still interested, no matter what. I have a buyer from a litter that will turn 8 very soon, I have not heard from her even once since the first call to say the puppy had settled, but I still send her a Christmas card and newsletter once a year, and will continue to do so.  I don't want anybody to be able to say I lost interest, so I keep it up even though it is very much one sided. By making it Christmas and then only it can't really been seen as harassment.

Sorry didn't word it right , I meant given up hope that she will reply. I too have sent xmas cards and emailed her just before xmas with festive wishes. I will continue to email and send cards like you as I do will all my pups , I will never forget her . I just don't think I will ever get a response :(

Goldmali makes a really good point. If a buyer is annually reminded of the breeder's interest & contact details, then if something untoward happens in their life, hopefully they will be prompted to turn to that breeder first.

It seems such a minefield for a buyer to find a really good breeder, and for the good breeder to find really good new owners for their pups. I am really glad there are good breeders out there, I don't think it's something I could do.

Hi jean yes i was really stupid in not listening to my gut feelings and it was for any reason done because i think i would be 'left' with any puppies i would happily keep all of them until right homes were found i just feel i was persuaded by the lady and i thought i was overreacting well never again listen to my gut feeling now agree lesson learned the hard way i still keep in touch with the owners of my last litter 2 years ago and i send them christmas cards aswell and i get the odd 1 or 2 back which is nice

I once went to the new owner and took a puppy back, bit of a long story, but I found out via the Breed Club Secretary that I had been lied to.
Fortunately the breed club secretary was also the stud dog owner, and she came with me to the new owners house. I took cash, demanded the puppy back, as it had been obtained under false pretences, grabbed the puppy and the papperwork, put the cash on the table and left with the puppy asap.

I was lucky as I had someone else with me to back me up, who had indisputable evidence that they had lied to me in order to obtain the puppy.
Not a very nice situation, but what matters is the puppy.
Is it possible with a few enquiries you could find anything out about these people ?

When we went we were very to the point, did not argue, or get into a debate, just said we were there to take the puppy back as it had been obtained under false pretences, the stud dog owner gave them the facts which they did not dispute, and we kept it at buisinesslike as possible. A very quick, there is your cash back, and took the puppy.
Might be worth a try, and have someone in the car, so that if you are not out with the pup in a reasonable time they can get help.
I was very scared, but the stud dog owner had told me she had done this before and as most people are quite shocked when you turn up and general don't know the legal stuff anyway.

Hi Sofie

I think anyone who has ever had a litter can sympathise with your dilemma. I guess if you had your time again things would be different, and that you wouldn't sell the pup to such people. Hopefully your hunch that it is a good home for the pup is right and he/she is absolutley fine. It's probably the most difficult part of breeding, vetting people!!

I've only had 2 litters but have had to refuse people, one man in particular was very insistent, many red flags for many reasons but was told after litter born that there wasn't a puppy for him. I didn't directly refuse for xyz reason, but think I would do so now. Some breeders really come across as hard nosed (my impression from the puppy buyer point of view) now I can see why they need to be sometimes. Hard to want to be personable with them but at the same time not afraid to send them away when needed!

Not all of our puppy owners have kept in touch. I give them a gentle reminder that I'm still here by sending a Christmas card each year, which usually results in a flurry of emails with up to date photos etc from them. In a perfect world they would all stay in touch but I think most people just get on with their lives with their dog & don't give the breeder much thought.

Here's hoping things will settle down and you can catch a glimpse every now and again. Of course the odd email or Christmas card won't hurt either.

>It's probably the most difficult part of breeding, vetting people!!

Oh most definitely! It's truly horrible, because my crystal ball's totally rubbish and I can't see how well even the nicest people are going to treat 'my' baby in the future. I lose a stone in weight during the second month of a litter purely through the stress and anxiety.

I've had to turn people down from each litter because on second meetings or phone calls certain details contradicted each other (such as when I was assured it would be a house dog, then when I rang a week later the son told me that 'dad was in the garden concreting the kennel run').

> Oh most definitely! It's truly horrible, because my crystal ball's totally rubbish and I can't see how well even the nicest people are going to treat 'my' baby in the future. I lose a stone in weight during the second month of a litter purely through the stress and anxiety.

A few decades of this torture has taken its toll with me. I just say NO to everyone now.

Me too! 
I once had a man who seemed OK, made arrangements to bring him family to see me and the dogs.  He didn't turn up - no phone call, nothing.  I don't chase people who let me down.
24 hours later he turned up on his own and I said as you were unreliable yesterday with no phone call or apology, then I couldn't be sure that he would be reliable and committed enough to take care of my puppy and I wouldn't let him through the front door.  I was on my own, 5'2" and very middled aged by then.  This over 6 foot tall man ranted, accused me of being racist and said that was why I wouldn't let him have a puppy.  My reply was that I didn't care is he was sky blue pink, I didn't think that he was suitable for one of my puppies and shut the door.  Simples! :)

When I breed a litter, I treat all new puppy owners the very same.  Some take the pup and I don't hear much or anything from them ever again.  Some drop me a line every couple of years or so and then their are the ones that become friends.  I much prefer the friends but I can handle anything now.

This reason is why you need to be 100% on your new owners.  Not everyone wants a 'new friend' and particularly one that you only have their dog in common.

When I have bought in a dog in the past, I must say that, unless they are friends in the breed, I've not kept in touch.  I wouldn't block any contact but I don't particularly seek it out either.

With my first litter I was contacted by a lady who seemed everything we could wish for, experienced with the breed, someone at home all day, all points covered, really enthusiastic, wanted to send a deposit and visit when pups born etc - I don't take deposits.   Then after the phonecall telling her the pups were born when she still expressed enthusiasm and wanted to visit as soon as pups up and about... nothing, for weeks.    When pups were seven weeks old I rang her about the pup, for several minutes she couldn't remember the pup, then told me a load of tosh contradicting what she had already told me - I take notes of every phonecall so it was easy to check ;-)       It turned out she had bought a bitch pup of the same breed two weeks earlier, I heard it barking so she had to tell me, and wanted me to keep mine for another month as she didn't have the money right away owing to having spent it on the first pup!  I told her that after all the lies she had told me she wouldn't be having a pup and ended the phonecall.

An hour later the breed club secretary was on the phone shouting at me because I was a disgrace, had let this woman down, all sorts of lies about the promises I had made and that I'd kept the deposit so had to sell the pup to this woman!    Once I pointed out that I didn't take any deposits on principle and all the lies I had been told, things calmed down,  her concern was that I'd be left with a pup !!   I told her my ONLY concern was that the pup went to the right home and was well looked after :-)    

A private concern was that she'd lied about only wanting one pup and it had to be a dog pup, but had bought a bitch pup elsewhere, to me there was a high possibility that she wanted them for breeding and the lies just rang alarm bells as to what kind of breeding :-(

It was stressful and almost put me off breeding, but other people in the breed told me they would have done the same in my position and some had done so.  

Definitely the hardest thing about breeding, vetting people is so difficult when it's our babies involved.

With our first dog, we had our name down for a pup and after they were born, we were overwhelmed with the commitment involved.  It was a demanding breed and we were first time dog owners.  We cancelled and took our names of the list and decided to try to find a more appropriate breed for a first time owner.  We researched other breeds and we even visited litters of other puppies, but none of them were for us.  (Even with cute puppy faces in front of us.)  We realised our hearts were with our original breed, regardless of us being first time owners and how daunting that was and we called the breeder back.  Luckily she still had the puppy available and luckily she gave us the benefit of the doubt.  Out of that litter, we were the owners who ended up being what most breeders would have wanted:  We showed that pup, at champ shows and open shows, and we worked her and competed successfully with her in that way too.  So I think the breeder was glad she hadn't written us off when we backed out. 

Which is all to say I don't think it's always simple, but if you have multiple issues with a new home (not just one event like this, but they repeatedly mess you around), then that is a bad sign for sure.

> sitting in a car outside sounds like a good plan

I'd be really careful that you don't get done for harassment...

With my first litter I advertised with my local breed club puppy register, but found out after some weeks of hardly any enquiries that he (allegedly, according to someone else) cherry picked the best enquiries for his friends. I had a few people, but nobody that was really right. One couple seemed lovely, but then it turned out they were planning to move to the New York and start a family, and I had visions of my puppy a year on, in a New York kill shelter because his owners wouldn't have time for him in an apartment with a baby. They had been really friendly and keen, and I felt very bad, although I'd said all along that there were several people interested (well, 2 people anyway!). When I got the puppy onto a different club's breed register, I found the perfect home in 2 days, and told the the first lot I'd decided on a different couple, they turned very nasty and sent me a really rude email saying I'd strung them along and let them down. I don't feel I'd strung them along when I'd said all along there was more than one family to decide from. I'm so glad my girl only had small litters, I don't know how I'd cope finding 8 or 9 good homes!

sitting in a car outside sounds like a good plan

I'd be really careful that you don't get done for harassment...

Absolutely! The only thing I can see that is wrong at the moment is that the owner does not wish for contact or for the OP to visit them. Which rightly or wrongly is their right!

I actually can't think of anything worse than finding a breeder lurking outside my property watching for my pup, I've been stalked and it would freak the heck out of me, I'd have my finger on the 999 button quicker than they could open the car door, I would think I had bought my pup from an insane person.

>It was stressful and almost put me off breeding, but other people in the breed told me they would have done the same in my position and some had done so.   <br />

I agree.  Difficult though it may be to say no, my pups are more important than hurting someone's feelings!

I had exchanged emails with a lady who sounded perfect.  Eventually she phoned, and we had several converstaions that seemed to confirm that this would be a very good home.  The pup was for herself, as a pet.

I did ask that the children came too.  They had a 4 hour drive, and she brought her friend who had 2 children.  The prospective puppy owner brought her 3 kids.  The children were a nightmare, and never corrected once about racing round and screeching. 

The conversation seemed to be full of contradictions.  So I was wary.   One child said "we've got a chihuahua, but it always hides behind the settee from us!"  Later I was to hear about the Rottie and the Staffie.  In the 3 hours they were here, not one of those children even stroked a dog.  I always let my gang creep in a few at a time to see the reaction.

Eventually the 12 year old lad said "I'm getting pi**ed off, which is my pup, and we'll go!  I said why do you want a Chihuahua pup?  He said, my sisters got one, why shouldn't I have one?

I asked them to leave.  I don't care if it was a 4 hour drive, that wasn't my problem.

Yes i think 'sitting outside car' is a step too far agreed i love my puppies and really do wish to see her again but i don't want to be seen as a crazy doggy woman lol looks like u are really 'brave' jean in turning the people away after the 4 hour drive to yours but rightly so in my opinion all our puppies are precious to us i really do wish the majority of the general public will educate themselves when buying puppies or any living animal and i actually DO want my prospective owners to ask ME questions aswell as me asking them most people think it's just like walking in to a shop buying something and away you go no questions asked why oh why annoyed is an understatement but you people although strangers as to speak to me have been very comforting and glad many do understand i thought i was going mad

Crikey Jean, I wouldn't have lasted 3 hours with such a rabble, 20 minutes would have been my limit!    You have far more patience than I have :-)

To be fair to the people I might have lasted an hour tops but 3 hours!  You're a saint :-)

It's true though, having prospective owners visit makes a huge difference, you can tell so much more from a face to face meeting.  Contradictions and inconsistencies are what I look for too, it's surprising how many liars don't listen to their own lies - thank goodness!

A cat breeder friend told me many years ago that she insisted that prospective kitten owners bring all their children and it didn't matter how perfect the parents seemed to be whilst talking, it was how the children behaved and parents reacted that guided her, if the children were unruly and parents didn't keep control they wouldn't get a kitten, her opinion was that if the children were out of control in her house, they'd be just as bad or worse at home and her kitten would be at risk.

Well I recently turned down a family who were on my waiting list. The puppies are not yet born but I had promised a visit to meet mum and dad. The lady sounded fine on the phone and we had corresponded by email. She came with husband and young daughter. The child was fine -cuddled mum and dad and was at ease with other dogs. Neither adult consented to sit down (okay, my sofas are a bit doggie ) and the lady was overbearing. She kept asking me to remove one of my boys from her presence ( he was only saying hello) and the final straw was when she interrupted me while I was explaining a doggie health matter and said 'too much information' ( for her child's ears, I think ?!) I felt humiliated in my own home. I was polite for the rest of the visit -she was after all a guest in my home but I sent an email informing her that her overbearing and controlling personality would not suit the sensitive nature of the puppies I breed. Also, I rejected a family interested in my last litter who arrived in a magnificent top of the range vehicle having detailed luxury homes in London and countryside and  with three immaculately turned out 'poppets' but who clearly had no idea of the work involved in rearing and caring for a puppy. The lady was apparently horrified that at 6 weeks they were not already toilet trained. This was during the dreadful winter rain and puppies were laying waste to my living room having been unable to get out to play in the garden. The husband was cold and aloof ,making no attempt to interact with the dogs and puppies. I found both visits humiliating and disturbing. These people came into my home and felt they could abuse my hospitality. Fortunately, all other families visiting that litter were wonderful and have kept in touch with photos and updates.

As soon as I got a sniff that they would be unsuitable they would be shown the door as would want to waste my time or breath on them.

So sorry to her that sofie. I dont breed but can imagine the disappointment you feel. I promised to keep in contact with the breeder when I bought my dog Fred. I made contact several times but she never replied. I feel equally dissapointed as an owner that she didnt want to know about the success story of one of her pups.

In your position I think you should at least try and make contact one final time to say you respect their right to privacy (keeps them sweet then!) but remind them of your contact details and say that your door is ALWAYs open and they wont be judged if they do ever want to get rid of the pup/dog. That way, you may have some peace of mind that if the novelty does wear off they will feel they can return the pup to you.

Wow, I  must say i see it as a lovely bonus of getting a pup that you do make new contacts with one very big thing in common - your breed! wonderful:)

hi freds mum i can understand the other side of it to where a breeder refuses contact i'm really am just really annoyed as besides this it has been a dreadful 2012 and this to start of the new year i got an update from the woman just now she texted she will allow me to see the puppy at some point but i'm not holding my breath as to so many let downs these people have done yes and i forgot to say in the string of rude texts the guy sent before and quoted along the lines of 'we bought a puppy before and was never hounded by questions from them' so i take it who they got the other dog from that time in my eyes didn't really care about the home the puppy went money exchanged hands and 'goods bought' end of no more to do with the puppy they sold i find this terrifying but i know this kind of thing happens sadly i really don't get why they think i'm 'questioning' them just asked how puppy was and i just got abuse back i just can't help that they might be hiding something as hard as it is i think i'm going to just 'let it go' so gutted

i got an update from the woman just now she texted she will allow me to see the puppy at some point

I just feel that there is something amiss here, people don't act like this, the man is acting very territorial as though he is feeling very threatened by you and the lady is keeping you sweet.

It's all very strange, I've never come across anything like this, how can anyone take offense to the breeder texting to ask how the pup is doing?

Without anything else to go on, no proof of what they may be hiding........ if anything! You are doing the right thing here in taking a step back, forget asking for a visit maybe that is the problem, and just send a text in another couple of months now asking how the pup is coming along........

Taking these people on last minute without really having the time to get to know them seems to be the downfall here, although the signs were there.....

The reason I like to have a pre-prepped waiting list prior to whelping is because I want my pups new owners to have become friends with me first, if not already. I want them to trust me and see me as a bonus to having the pup, I never suggest visits, I am always invited and in turn I very often have my pups/adult dogs come stay for holidays and days out too, it's a very fine line between being a mentor and knowledgeable breeder whose pups owners enjoy being in touch with to being seen as a threat, you have to tread very carefully.

I don't understand the abuse you are getting, why? Whether you like it or not the man here is seriously threatened by you, why I don't know, but it appears to be that way.

Unfortunately, the only way to show you are no threat (in finding something out or just feeling you are too much??? ) is to step back, so the right decision made, hopefully things will settle a little in a couple of months and I would just do that little friendly text then. :-) And hope you will get a photo and an update. ;-)

You've had two previous litters with no problems with contact, this one is a mystery, but alas a mystery you're not going to find out any time soon, my advice is to just be patient and good luck!

A suggestion could be just to ask for  few updated pictures or a bit of video  , you would see how the pup was doing  and they could keep their privacy

Its a horrid way to learn the lesson that you MUST listen to your gut feeling!

In your shoes, I would be searching the free ads and online ads in your area for puppies of your breed - if they HAVE sold him or her on, or are trying to do so, thats probably how they would do it and you might find them out that way if that's what they have done.

Google the phone/mobile number if there  is an advert  out there  it should find it

Ooooh yes - googling a mobile number particularly can be VERY enlightening!

I do that with all my puppy enquirers.....land line and mobile.

You can learn a lot!

Putting the email address  in FB can be helpful too