just a couple of questions on hip scoring as i have never had the test done but am probably going to before i breed a litter
1 if a dog is scored at 2 years and again later in life can the score alter considerably / at all
2 can any vet do the score or is it specialists like with the kc eye scheme (if so has anyone got a list of panelists)
3 what score would you consider unsuitable (my breeds average i think is 13) for breeding.
cheers

Your own vet will probably be able to take the X-rays but they need to be sent to the BVA for assessment and scoring.
It is said that for a dog to be considered suitable to breed from that the score must be well below breed average.
If your breed is a breed that has had alot of hip scores done then the average should be reliable, but if a breed where not much data held then the breed averages can be a bit unreliable.
What breed is it you are getting scored and I will check on my list what the current breed average is and the highest/lowest scores taken.

The x-ray is taken by your own vet and sent by them to the pannel for assessing.

A dog can only be scored once!

The usually recomendation is to not breed from higher than your breed average, but that is really not the whole story. As an example, Clumbers have an average of 42 and realisticly, if anyone hopes to improve the breed then I would have thought it desirable to try to breed well under this figure. It could be that the gene pool of good scores percludes that, I don't know.
The other end of the spectrum is something like Flatcoats whos average is 9. To rule out a 10 or 11 which is a brilliant example of the breed would be throwing the baby out with the bath water! You must look at the dog as a whole, not just a pair of hips.

Regards, John

Hi you won't be able to have your dogs scored again it is a once only procedure.
Any vet is able to take the x-rays for hipscoring but they are sent to the BVA where a panel of vets assess the hips and give them the score.
Ideally a less than average for your breed hipscore would be best for breeding.You would also take into consideration the hipscore of the sire.Gillian

Just a tip if you do get your dog hip scored. They will need an aneashetic and the hips are pulled on. The next day your dog maybe very sore.
When we got our male Bordeaux done he was quite poorly and stiff. He had only the aneashetic.
However when we had our Bordeaux bitch done the vets gave her an injection of Rimadyl (sp) after the X-ray. She was fine the next day with no problems.
Ask you vet what he thinks. It worked for our bitch.

The dog really should not be distressed! the hips have to be arranged but not outside their natural limits. I was present when Anna was x-rayed, in fact I held her front end and the manipulation was nothing to write home about! I wonder just what your vet was doing??? Has anyone else had this problem?

Regards, John

I recently had may Curly Coat hip scored....not had the results back as yet...know it takes about a month.

Pepper was sedated as I did not want her put out fully. I must admit when I picked her up later on she was quiet and seemed a little stiff. I just stopped her from going up and down stairs that evening....and she was back to herself the following day...!!!

The average score for a curly is 11....but as John said if you have a good all round dog then you need to look at the whole picture.

Pepper is 4 years old.....so I don't expect her score to be brilliant....The vet said having looked at it that it wasn't too bad....so fingers crossed.

Regards

Vicki & Pepper

Well I was so concerned about Claude in September as he was really not himself that I posted on here.
A lady replied to say the same had happedned to her Rottie male last year. We did take our bitch to a different vet though so maybe it is how you say and perhaps some vets rougher than others.

I have had labs and rottis done under sedation. The vet gives them the sedative and when they are asleep he carries them through to the x-ray room. As soon as he is done the dog is brought back into the consulting room with me to recover. 10 - 30 minutes later the dog walks out of the room, all be it abit wobbley but my dogs have never been sore.
Infact once they have slept for a couple of hours and been fed they are usually ready for a walk and playtime!

Just like to mention that before you all rush off to ask your vet to use sedation rather than anasthaesia, I would like to point out that sedation is by far the greater risk to your dog than anasthaesia.

Staffie

Could you please look on your list to see what the average hip score is for a Siberian Husky the vet told me that it is 7

Thanks

Heidi

Hi Heidi,

I have looked on the list I have and it also says 7.

Regards

Vicki

Hi Heidi
The list I have was the scores as at 10/10/01 and it is the one the BVA sent me only this month! That is why I thought it would be more up to date!
However, the Siberian Husky Breed Average then was 7 with the range of those tested being from 0 to 43.
If you are interested you can phone the Kennel Club and they will send you a printout of ALL Sibes tested and their scores. We did it for the Bordeaux and we found some really interesting findings on their :-). Think it costs between £5 and £10. Useful to see what dogs with what scores have been used and the scores of the offspings!

Hi Heidi,

Sibe breed mean score is indeed an excellent 7 - based on 1,859 dogs scored with results ranging from 0 to 43. This info is as of 10th October 2001, haven't seen updated scores for the following year.

Have you had any of yours hip scored yet?

M.

Hi Jackie,

Please could you explain why...??? As I have never heard this....I was advised that sedation was the safer option.

Regards

Vicki

Because sedation cannot be reversed if the dog gets into difficulties with breathing for example whereas anaesthetic can, also there will already be a breathing tube in place through which oxygen can be given.

Thanks Isabel it worries me when people think they are oppting for the best thing for their dog when they have not had the true facts presented to them.

Thanks...

Learnt something new...:D Strange how nobody told me this beforehand....

To keep it in proportion, Vicki, the risks are low in most breeds of dog with either method, your vet would have been aware of them and perhaps they felt they had it all covered by perhaps observering the dog for a longer period of time before releasing home In the future you may want to discuss the aspects of it with your vet for reassurance.

Thanks....

Pepper was there most of the day 8.30am til 3.00pm....and the Vet phoned me three times throughout to let me know she was fine and also to discuss the x-ray. So I cannot complain about the service....

But useful to know for future reference...:)

That's very strange, because when (adult) dalmatians are hearing tested they are sedated, not anaesthetised, the reason given that the antidote to the sedation works much quicker than bringing a dog round from a full general anaesthetic!

Odd that vets say the exact opposite to each other!

Brihow collies

No Saskia is not 1 till next month so she will be having hers done then, she has had her eyes tested for both Glucoma and catarax and the vet said she has lovely healthy eyes her ligaments are great :)

Will be having the rest of the huskies done when they are older

Is 7 a low score then, it does not give you much leway does it ?

Heidi,

Possible score range is 0 to 106 (53 on each hip), with 0 being 'normal' - so yes, 7 is a very good breed mean score.

Doesn't give much leeway for breeding parents under the average score though, if that's what you're querying. As has been pointed out here before, take the dog as a whole based on all information, not just on hip score (within reason, obviously) and choose your dog carefully when the time comes.

Marina

Hi Marina

Thanks for that, the stud dog I have found has a hip score of 7/4 and has eyes tested which are clear do you think that is execptable. He has a great pedigree and has proved him self in the show ring. So why do different breeds have different scores?

Heidi :)

Heidi,

I don't know Sibes, so wouldn't give an opinion on whether the dog is OK to use or not. As there seem to be approx. 1,000 Sibes registered per year (quick reference to BRS only!), 1,859 scored dogs would seem to give a fair view of the breed average, so it would be my uneducated opinion that you wouldn't want to go too far above it.

In my breed, the mean score is 13, but hip scoring is not yet common practice and so this is based on only 659 scored dogs with a score range of 0-89 - and annual breed registrations are much higher than the Sibes.

Also, obviously hugely depends on Saskia's score - if she comes up with a very low score, that gives you a bit more leeway for the sire, but if she's high you need to be more careful. Also, you could look at the hip scores of puppies this dog has produced.

Have you entered any 'proper' shows yet? Saskia's obviously only young, so you have plenty of time yet to find her ideal mate. My advice would be to attend as many shows as possible, particularly Sibe Club shows, and become known for listening not talking .... i.e. take in as much information as you can from the people who have been in the breed for years, and be seen to be learning - you will learn huge amounts this way.

Hope Saskia has a good score for you, and you're able to start a nice line from her now that you're getting a bit more info.

M.

Marina

She is in her first open show on the 22nd Feb then another on the 23rd March. I have had to enter her in junior for the one as she is one on the 17th as the show is on the 22nd. She also is entering anoth exemption show in March so she is in hard training lol............. I have just caught her with a can of beans in both paws doing her buns of steel work out :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Thanks for the advice.

In our breed "Bordeaux" there have only been approx 76 dogs scored giving an Breed Ave of 24.5. The lowest score being 6 the highest being 80.
My dog came back at 29 and my bitch 19 so I am quiet happy to breed from these.
Like I say having the printout was very informative. In all fairness some ot the dogs bred from had really high scores but their pups eg litter of 5 tested 4 below ave scores 1 high score, but then dogs with low scored were also producing litter with the same sort of pattern.

Odd indeed, what is the antidote they are using?

I have no idea what either the sedative or the antidote is, sorry. The "travelling" vet who does the testing is Celia Cox, and testing is done at the AHT Newmarket as well, so they should be able to tell you.

When I had a 13 year-old tested (she'd always had very sharp hearing, and I wanted to know if her sudden 'deafness' was selective or not - it turned out genuine, and that she'd always been unilateral and we'd never known...). She started breathing oddly when she was being tested, Celia injected her, and she was on her feet again within 10 seconds (albeit a little wobbly).

Thats interesting, I discussed this with my vet about 3 weeks ago concerning my 14 year old brachycephalic so maybe what he told me related to her age and type, I will ask him again next time I see him.

Staffie

I think I will invest in a print out :)