I have an all black Flatcoat retriever and I would like to put him up for Stud. Although he is black, his father, who ias Brown Guiness-a champion show dog, was liver, so he has the liver gene. Could you please tell me ho to put my dog to stud
thankyou

Hi Guest
Has your flat coat had hips scored ..all the relevent eye tests...etc etc...he may be very nice and have a good pedigree but most reputable breeders use stud dogs which are proven to produce good stock who go on to have good hips etc..think you will find it difficult to find someone reputable to use your dog to be honest :)IMHO anyway.

To be honest, if you're in the position of needing to ask the question - don't worry yourself and the dog with stud duties. There are very many dogs of high repute around by Toby Ale (the dad of Brown Guiness) and they have been proven on the show bench and in the shooting field to be worth breeding from, so the line is not a rare one by any means.

To be used at stud, you have to take legal responsibility for any defects in the puppies your dog sires, and this means a very full and detailed knowledge of the dogs in you pedigree, preferably for 10 generations back. Even then, odd things can slip through the net which no-one can foresee, and unfortunately you're still liable for these as well.

On the minus side for you and your dog - he may well start scent-marking around the house after he's been used at stud, and get quite impossible around other bitches!

Sorry to be the bearer of news you probably don't want to hear!

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

Hi Jo
I know hardly anything about the breeding side but I was interested in your comment about having to take legal responsibility for any defects in the puppies. What would this mean exactly ? Could an owner of one of the puppies have a legitimate claim against the sire's owner if there was a problem ?

Joyce

Yes, just so - against the owner of the Dam in the first instance, I guess, and passed onto the owner of the stud dog. There has been a case (possibly more than one) when the breeder/stud dog owner was held responsible although they had taken every possible step to prevent hereditary defects.

The courts always appear to find in favour of the buyer (=faulty goods mentality).

Which makes breeding even more hazardous than it is already.

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

Thanks for the info, Jo.

So does this mean that I could have made a claim against the owner of the dam/sire for the patella defect in my young dog ?

Without knowing the details, don't know - afraid I didn't pick up on the post. I think that what the courts don't realise, and don't have any sympathy for, is the fact that a dog is a living thing - a genetic pudding, if you like, where the cook normally does the best possible to get it right (puppy farmers excepted).

A good many of these conditions are polygenic in their inheritance, that is to say, a predisposition to the condition is probably carried on more than one chromosome or on more than one locus. An unfortunate combination of these loci can result in all sorts of unforeseen problems, hip dysplasia and luxating patellas being just a few.

However careful a breeder may be, occasionally the genes will recombine to give problems which may have lain hidden for generations. There is no crime, except in law, of a truly responsible breeder producing a defect on the very odd occasion - the crime, as Malcolm Willis says, is in not disclosing it , so that future generations are working in the dark.

In answer to your question, then, I would say that if
a. You can put up with the stress of court procedure and can prove that the breeders had been genuinely negligent with their testing for genetic problems, I suppose you may consider it, but you may make life unpleasant for yourself as well as the breeders in the process!

b. Personally, I would never do it to claim money back on the original purchase price of the dog, and would have kicked myself for not being insured for any vet's fees!!

Good job my sons' wives haven't yet needed to claim against me for defects in my sons!!!! :-) (They may have considered it, tho!!!!)

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

would this be the young dog you want to offer at stud?:(

No, Sam, I didn't post the original question here. I have never been interested in the breeding side of things. Although I've always had pedigree dogs they have always been 'just' pets.

I am a little confused about this legal responsibility thing, though. On the one hand anyone whose dog is used at stud has to accept the risks of potential court proceedings if the puppies are born with defects but on the other hand it seems that anyone who might try to make a claim would be causing themselves a lot of stress and would be making life unpleasant for themselves and the breeder !! Hobson's choice or what ?!

Absolutely, Joyce - it's a can of worms whichever way you look at it!

As a very occasional breeder, I try to word my puppy sales contract so that the new owner and myself are fairly covered, but it's not easy, and have been told that these puppy contracts may not be legal either.

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

sorry joyce...I don't know why but I just had it in mind that you were the original poster. Sorry again:o

No problem, Sam, quite understandable in the circumstances :) (My fault for jumping in on someone else's post !)

Joyce