If a ruby girl is mated with a blenhiem, what colour will the puppies be because i've seen theat you can get two colours in one litter the breed id a cavalier can you help me any one i'm lost in this whole thing thanks
betty :) :p :D

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Not sure as cavs are not my breed but I think you might get lots of mismarks - too much white for a ruby, not enough for a blenheim.

The probability is for badly broken Blenheims and Rubies with too much white. So yes, a litter of mismarks. Not a mating to be recommended.

Thanks for your help but we had a blenhiem befor and he had ruby in him and was a well broken up dog would of been show if it weren't for havin a curly coat! you can't win em all!:)
Betty! :D

You shouldn't really mix whole colours with a blenheim.A lot do because the ruby will bring out the rich chestnut colour which is so desirable in a blenheim.Puppy colours will depend on whether the sire and dam have come from a true line or not
You would be better off asking this question on a breed specific forum such as
www.ckcsforums.com

Well of course, genetics are a matter of probability so even when the probability for mismarks is high, you can get correct blenheims or rubies. But the highest chance is for mismarks, that's all. Now it's up to the breeder to decide whether he's willing to take chances, or not, and why.

hi wot about a blen and a tri.......wud u mate them?

It could be said that if you don't know the answer then the answer is no! Good breeding is not something to take lightly.

just a question..... nobody is born knowing it all u no!

Thankyou miss boop

Of course nobody is born knowing everything Betty, but the idea is to do your research and homework first BEFORE you practice with living animals, and sell your mistakes to unsuspecting new owners.
The terms of service on this board include that you are not insulting to other posters!

Betty you will learne not to insult the regulars on here, I did

debbie :) :)

ok point taken.i dont think i explained myself properly. i havent bred my bitch for commercial reasons ....i wanted another one to keep her company and family members also want a puppy. i went to a reputable breeder whom i found through the kennel club...yes the stud dog is a tri and the breeder thought they would be a nice match, i simply asked an idle question and didnt appreciate the rather abrupt response. i think this will be a lovely and valuable experience for my children,irrelavent of markings or colours etc.

I hope that all goes smoothly if you intend to have your children watching. It'll certainly be an education for them if you have problems!
Markings and colourings are the least of your worries when breeding Cavaliers. Are the parents patella tested, eye tested, heart tested? If not, you could be passing on liabilities not assets to your family and friends!

Especially if the person has taken the time to try and help .
Mari

Yes you can put a tri and blenheim togeher and you will get a mixed litter though I belive tri colour is the more dominant gene

yes poppy has had a clean bill of health and i assume as the dog is a proven stud dog he has also...i hope everything goes smoothly to! i was hoping for a small litter 2 would have been perfect as its her first litter but we had a scan yesterday and vet thinks 3 maybe 5!thanx for the info...i did suspect that we would have a mixed litter,that will be nice!

Does "clean bill of health" mean that Poppy has been patella tested, eye tested, heart tested? Just because a dog is a proven stud doesn't mean that you can assume that he is tested. It's the bitch owner's responsibility to ask to see the certificates.
Or is it just fingers crossed for a healthy litter?

hi val dont take this the wrong way but do u actually have anything constructive to say to me or do u just want to have a go at me? i understand your point as i said in my previous message. im a responsible dog owner i treat my dogs with great love and care (and money!) your making me feel like some cowboy and not the caring responsible owner that i know i am.im not trying to breed show quality dogs,i want family pets...i came here looking for advice and to find like minded dog lovers and as for liability my daughter is autistic does that mean she is a liability also?

Hi Betty,
I think Val feels that everybody breeding dogs should do as much research as they can before they embark on a litter of puppies, to do their utmost to ensure that the quality of the resulting litter is not lower than that of the parent dogs! :) It's very easy to produce "rubbish" dogs - most puppy farmers do it all the time :(, and rescue kennels are full of them. The test of a good breeder is to improve the breed.

And all the showdogs I know are kept as family pets.....temperament is as important as conformation and decoration!

I think what Val is saying is that it is possible to get certificates to prove the health of the stud dog and the bitch , rather than just take someones word for it :)

Given that breeding can end up being an expensive and disappointing excercise , it is better to make sure wherever possible that ALL health checks have been carried out prior to breeding. It doesn't matter whether this is for pets or show potential , it is something that all breeders should be looking for ...a healthy litter.

HTH

Melody

Betty, I won't take what you say the wrong way, so long as you don't think that I just want to have a go at you! ;) Just because it's not what you want to hear doesn't mean that it isn't constructive. This is a public board, and so my post was meant to be informative to anyone considering breeding a litter for family and friends.
I have no doubt that you love your dog. That comes over clearly in your posts. You say that you are not trying to breed show quality dogs, but ALL pups should be bred with their breed standard in mind. Some will be near to it and may be shown, others, whilst being good representatives of their breed, will make wonderful family pets.
If you read my post under Dog Breeding Generally, you'll see that I work with family pets every day. I spend much of my time supporting families who own dogs bred by well meaning people with no knowledge. I share their emotional upsets when their dogs have painful and expensive veterinary treatments that could have been avoided, or even worse, lose their much loved pets very early in their lives because they have not been bred from health tested stock. Cavaliers are frequently lost before 5 years old due to heart defects. They regularly have expensive and painful operations for luxating patellas. It's clear from the posts on this board, that many pet owners are unaware that such tests are available to reduce the incidence of these problems. A stud dog owner who allows her dog to mate a pet bitch without ensuring that she is health tested, I wouldn't consider a reputable breeder!
I sincerely hope that anyone considering producing a "litter of family pets" will at least health test their dog before mating.
I don't consider "just a pet" to be of any less value than a top winning show dog. Any family owning a dog deserves a happy, healthy pet - as healthy as we can produce, accepting that nature can always throw in problems of which we could have no knowledge!
Betty, you will find a number of very experienced breeders on this board, who will give freely of their knowledge to help you through this new experience.
PS You said in your post that you were breeding this litter because you wanted a puppy to keep your girl company. In another post you say that you already have another pup of 6 months old! How much company does your bitch need?

Hi
I agree totally with your statement that all dogs should be bred with the breed standard in mind.If a person buys a pedigree dog then they will expect that dog to grow into the breed they chose .How many times have we seen dogs that look nothing like the breed they are supposed to be .
Archer

I have a friend that cross breeds different terriers for hunting . He has them health checked even though they are not pure bred .
He says no point in breeding sick stock to do tough work.
So I think you should listen to Val re the health tests and take responsibility for what you are about to do.
She is deeply passionate about all dogs and only posts in the hope she can help anyone breeding for the first time to get it right .. The heartbreak of sick puppies is traumatising to any breeder.
A straight post is not an insulting post , just telling it as it is and what to expect from puppies when born if they should have the defects lots of cavaliers are experiencing at the moment.
Mari :)

The Health schemes are there to assist breeders, whether breeding for the show ring or for pets, breed sound puppies. Quite a few of us give up our time to help. I am co-organiser of eye testing sessions and am happy to give up some of my free time to this.

It is now several years ago since the first person was tried by the courts, found guilty and fined for breeding a puppy with HD! This is what you risk every time you breed a litter.

John

hi again.... just to clarify before i mated poppy she had a trip to our vet who checked her over and thought she would be fine, shes a nice size and in v good health etc.the tests you speak of havent been done because i didnt feel they were needed(no need to comment on that as i already hear you loud and clear)
im sorry you have had to deal with so many unfortunate cases.....but to be honest we grew up with a mongrel dog who had a bit of allsorts in him,he lived till 14 and never went to a vet except for the usual!! alot of the defects you speak of are caused by improved breeding for the sake of looks etc anyway!!,lets not forget that the dogs we have in the ring today are simply products of careful interbreeding over the years, left to nature it would be a very different story!!
just my own humble opinion. :)
yes i have two dogs jack the lad aka jack-NOO!! is actually 5 months not 6! and she needs as much company as i give her!! my prime aim is to produce a cavvie for my mum whos always loved and wanted a cavalier but could never afford 1,and yes i may keep 1 or 2 of them depending on how many we are blessed with!

that said........your rite i should have had the tests done,the vet didnt even suggest any tho...i had vaguly heard of them.....ok point taken.

Unfortunately, Betty, most Vets know very little about breeding dogs! I was lucky to have one many uears ago, who's wife bred and showed Great Danes, and he was wonderful. Conversely, I have met numerous newly qualified Vets who have NEVER seen a bitch whelp naturally. As a Veterinary Nurse, I too had never seen a bitch whelp. They are however, trained to perform a caesarean.
The dogs with problems that I have in the parlour are, as I have said, the results of ignorant breeders, and are poor examples of their breeds. These inherited problems can be avoided with testing and/or knowledge of what is behind the dogs. If the dogs named on the pedigrees are not known, then this can be impossible.
So we will all cross our fingers for you, that Poppy has a straight forward birth, and that her puppies are fit and healthy so that your daughter may enjoy the experience.

Val,
How nice to hear someone talking sense on this forum. For Bettys info, I have every health test under the sun done on my dogs before breeding. Somehow, I still ended up with an entire litter with hip dysplasia. The cost to us, the owners and especially the dogs was horiffic! The only thing that kept me out of court was the fact that I could produce all the health certificates to prove that I hadnt done this knowingly, and the fact that I (willingly and without being prompted) replaced the puppies and paid a lot of vet bills. It was the worst two years of my life, and I never EVER again want to have to go through the experience of ringing a load of thrilled puppy owners to break the news that a litter sister is crippled and would they have theirs x-rayed. Even worse was the tears of these people in phone calls w hen they rang back to say that pups had HD, OCD, eating disorders.
You may wish to produce a pup for your Mum, but the other four (if she does have the 5) may need to be sold to people who will not be so understanding if it goes wrong. Im not having a bitch at you, and I wish you the very best of luck, and hope that you enjoy them hugely. If you need any help, e-mail me, If I cant help, or dont know, I bet I can put you on to someone who does. (although Val sounds as if she knows an awful lot more than I do)

ps A vet I knew once actually asked if she could come and watch one of my bitches whelp, as she too had never seen a whelping bitch unless she was having complications.

I've had a vet nurse come to a whelping for the very same reason she'd never seen a 'normal delivery' and as this bitch knew her very well she came and got covered when the sac ruptured as a pup was being pushed out bless lol.

Im sorry to change subject (please forgive me Betty) but when the midwife came round to weigh my two day old son, she took his nappy off and peed in a perfect arc into her handbag! Nice to know Vets and Midwives are human too isnt it?

She did????

Crickey ..that was an amazing Midwife!

;) :) :)

Mel

That's the sort of trick you expect to see on Graham Norton!!:D :D

Unless you really know your colours and the pedigree history it is best not to mix wholecolours and parti colours. The following may help.

The dominant colour is Blenheim.

Blen to Blen will generally will produce Blen but doing this for several generations can produce light eyes and light noses.

Blen to Tri will produce a mix of Blen and Tri or litters of either just Tri or just Blen

Blen to Ruby will produce Rubies and Blens but you will only get Blens if the Ruby parent carries particolour blood. With this mating you also risk mismarked Rubies (with white marks)

Blen to Black & Tan - either of the four colours if B&T parent carries particolour blood. Not recommended as very likely to produce mismarks although pigment generally very good.

Tri to Tri - a mix of Blen and Tris

Tri to B&T - again all four colours providing B&T parent has parti colour blood. Risk here is heavily marked Tri but the plus side is that Rubies usually a good rich colour

Tri to Ruby as above but with parti colours only occurring if the Ruby parent has parti colour blood

Ruby to B&T - good for getting wholecolours but parti colours may occur if BOTH parent have particolour blood

B&T to B&T - may produce all four colours but particolours will only appear if parents have particolour blood.

Hope this has not been too confusing. For a first litter I would advise that you take advise from the breeder of your bitch rather than risk problems later.

It also goes without saying - I hope that you will heart test, test patellas and eyes and also request the same from the owner of the stud dog.

Alice