We were planning on spaying one of our dogs in the new year - with a laparoscopic spay - and were going to have a dental at the same time.  I've noticed some tartar on one of her teeth and I'm a bit concerned about it.

I thought both procedures could be done under the same GA so she wouldn't need 2.

However the nurse I just spoke to on the phone said that they wouldn't do these 2 procedures at the same time, because of all the bacteria flying around from the dental which could cause an infection. 

So it would mean 2 GAs.  Is this true, or is my vet practice being ultra-careful...?  I just thought we could get both things done at once and avoid 2 GAs... Can't they do the dental first, before they open her up..?

Think you would find most practise would not do dental work at the same time as a major op. castration may be but not a spay.

My friends has a really old fashioned vet, he does every dogs teeth and nails while they're under, he says it's too good an opportunity to miss. I often wish I lived closer and in fact I took Mr Beastly there (3 hour round trip) to be neutered because he let me stay with him till he was under and be there for him waking, I just sat on the floor in the surgery with him. My own vets are far stricter.

Both my bitches had their teeth cleaned whilst they were spayed. I think they might have been given antibiotics for the week before. Thankfully neither had a problem. I know a lot of vets will not do this as they say it is a dirty proceedure during an open surgery.

Thanks, so it sounds like it is considered good practice now not to do both at once maybe.  (Whether we agree with that or think it is too much health and safety.).

I don't think I would want her to have 2 GAs so close together when neither are emergencies, so perhaps we will get teeth cleaned now and delay the spay for another year.

Wish I could stay with my dog till she went under and be there when she woke up too.  I wish vets would acknowledge the owner-pet bond a bit more and not be so obsessed with the physical side of things.  It's a bit like human hospitals were in the 1940s and there are lots of studies finding the stress caused to children left in hospital whilst parents were not allowed to visit.  I'm sure the same is true for pets.

It may be those vets who use the ultra sonic machines that turn the deposit on the teeth into dust who will not combine it with major ops, and when you think the soiling on the teeth is full of infective agents to have that in the air of a theatre where there is abdominal surgery taking place does not seem to be good practice. I would not want someone to clean my teeth and cut my nails whilst I had a hysterectomy performed, ABs or not.

> I would not want someone to clean my teeth and cut my nails whilst I had a hysterectomy performed, ABs or not.

LOL. Never gave this a thought, last year Otto had a cyst removed from an eye & they cleaned his teeth.

Yes, not the same as an major op, they no doubt would have done the eye, covered it and then the teeth, don't think there would be room to do both at the same time. If you get infection in internal organs it can take a long while before it is obvious but an eye or a nail bed would be obvious straight away.

Surely though you could get the teeth cleaned without a GA?  My friends that used to do dog grooming regularly scaled teeth.

It's not the done thing to do descaling at the same time due to the chance of infection and talking to the receptionist or a vet nurse it will always be a resounding no as that is good practice, however two of my friends dogs have been done whilst being neutered it took a chat with the head vet as like yourself she did not wish to do two GA's, so it is worth actually talking to the vet doing the op.

Obviously some vets will do it..... and no harm came of it. :-) But, it will be down to the vet.

>Surely though you could get the teeth cleaned without a GA?

Sometimes a descaling (and many, many dogs won't tolerate it being done properly when awake) will reveal a tooth that needs extraction.

> many dogs won't tolerate it being done properly when awake

I think some of mine would fall into that category, but never needed to have one doen, as they get regular bones or wghen unavailable hooves to chew and seems to keep their teeth in good order.

When I had my little guy the vet who neutered him had refused to give him a dental at the same time even though it was desperately needed, he had rotting teeth, awful breath and severe aggression to being touched in any way so the stress of being knocked out was HUGE.

Whilst normally I understand the reasons behind not doing a dental when there's an open wound I wish his teeth had been done, it would have saved him some pain on top of the pain he was already in :-(

I can understand a little bit with not being able to do the two procedures but the cynical side of me thinks that health and safety gone mad and two lots of fees!  I think its such a shame if you have to end up with two GAs.  One of mine gets so stressed when he has to have a GA, to the point where last year he had been referred to a veterinary hospital way down south which would have meant him staying in for two nights and I ended up doing a whole lot of research.  Consequently he went into a practice locally, had the same op in the morning and I was able to take him home that day and I stayed with him at the practice while it was all going on.  The less stress he was put under the better it was for him.......and me, as I always panic inside when they have to have a GA but thats just me!!!

I always ask for a dental (if needed) whilst they are under for something else; my vet has never refused and it's never been a problem. I would think that a second anaesthetic would be more of a risk than the risk of infection whilst having another procedure done.

Henry had a dental at the same time as them taking a lump from under his chin. I can though understand why they'd be less keen on doing it at the same time as major internal surgeries, I suppose.

My little cocker got spayed, a mammory strip and 2 teeth extracted and the rest cleaned all at the same time.  My vet wasn't worried about infection and she didn't get any either.
Can you not get the tooth scraper and clean them yourself?  I do this with my dogs and then let them have some bones for tea(which takes the bits I miss away).  My dogs love getting it done now cos they know what's for dinner after!  It is a gross job but saves mine GA or rotten teeth.

Well, having now been to the vet, it's a bit more complicated than just dirty teeth.  It is a tooth (top molar) which at some time in the past (could be years ago) has fractured and part of the side of it come away.  But the tooth itself is healthy and well and although there is slight gingivitis there, not enough to warrant doing anything now.  The vet pushed hard on the tooth and it caused no pain. 

The vet said we will probably need to do something with it in the future, but at the moment it is fine - and if it were his dog, he'd just keep a close eye on it and do nothing for now.  So that's what we're doing.  He didn't even charge us for the appointment, either.

Did ask him about spaying and tooth at the same time, and he also said that if it were major abdominal surgery, he wouldn't want to do a dental at the same time.  If it were a minor op elsewhere, that would be fine.  This is a different vet at a different practice to the one mentioned in the original post above.  (Because we would be referred to another practice for the spay, to have a laparoscopic spay - which isn't done at our regular practice - and I originally spoke to them about the tooth.)

I realise that somtimes dogs teeth need to be seen to,I have never had to put mine through this.maybe lucky they have all had good teeth due to a nice raw marrow bone once a week,we never had these things done years ago,is it a money making thing and a routine proceedure that is carried out now?

Sheila

>is it a money making thing and a routine proceedure that is carried out now?

It's not routine, but some animals have the most appalling teeth, and the owners are amazed how much more cheerful the pet is when its mouth isn't sore any more. People don't realise just how much suffering animals will tolerate without showing overt discomfort.

we never had these things done years ago,is it a money making thing and a routine proceedure that is carried out now?

Those of us who do BARF or part BARF diet seem to keep our dogs teeth in good order (my girl has never needed her teeth doing and always has the vet comment on them) and back in the day if you didn't feed fresh meats and bone you gave the tinned food with the mixed in biscuits which cleaned the teeth also. IMO today because most dogs are on kibble it often is not big enough to scrape the teeth although it is full of goodness for our dogs, I've noticed that by the time many dogs get to 3 their teeth are plaquing over and not a nice colour, dental work is needed much more today.

People need to give a good marrow bone, knuckle bone or get some large crunchy mixer biscuit to keep their dogs teeth healthy or as I suggested to a friend whose dogs teeth needed cleaning every couple of years, and turns her nose up at bones, just buy a cheap dog food (which tend to be large) crunch on that for breakfast and then give the good kibble for dinner, her dogs teeth are so far looking good she is amazed. :-)

we never had these things done years ago,is it a money making thing and a routine proceedure that is carried out now?

Don't know how many years you are talking about but dogs have needed and received dental treatment for as long as I can remember.

No matter what you feed some dogs have problems with deposits and or damage and some do not.

I agree with Nova, I think these things are genetic - just like humans can have a tendency towards good or bad teeth, often inherited from parents.

My dog, though, has good teeth - it is a fracture in the tooth, which could have been caused by eating something hard like a bone or a stone, many years ago.

I did state that some dogs need dental treatment,we have had dogs for 40 years so yes I do have experience of dogs,and If needed I would see a vet if any problems occured,

Sheila

> My dog, though, has good teeth - it is a fracture in the tooth, which could have been caused by eating something hard like a bone or a stone, many years ago.

The only dental work that any of my dogs have ever had is a tooth removal due to a fracture from chewing on a bone, so those saying you won't need dental work if you give your dog a marrow bone have just been lucky so far!

so those saying you won't need dental work if you give your dog a marrow bone have just been lucky so far!

I don't agree with that at all. My dogs don't get bones regularly (for various reasons), but when plaque starts building up (which it does on all of them regardless whether they are on dry only, mixed or raw minces) I do let them have a ham bone or marrow bone... And the teeth are shiny again after that. Without the bones, especially my sighthounds would need dentals every six months or so as it builds up so quickly. With the bones, they are now 8 and 11 years old with excellent strong healthy teeth! So chewing/crunching on bones definitely helps enormously with the teeth - even just once every month or so has the benefit that is needed.

Broken teeth and other accidents are of course a whole different story! Dental work for those reasons is necessary even for bone fed dogs... but dentals to clean teeth and extract/fix damaged teeth due to plaque and gum disease (which is the majority of dentals I would say) won't be necessary.

Just tagging on the bottom here.  I have often scaled teeth on my own dogs.  But not all of them stay still, and I can't risk the damage that would result if it's a fidgety dog.

So, as I have Collies and Chi's, they all get treated the same.  That includes bones.  But you can't make a dog chew a bone.  Some of the tinies show no interest at all.  However, one Chi bitch is bone mad.  I only have to say Winnie do you need to go up the garden, and she looks round frantically - "quick, quick, where's my bone."  And takes a bone up the garden, which she holds while having a wee.  Yes, true!

I once asked my vet to scale and polish teeth when my terrier bitch had her patella op.  He refused because of the risk of infection. 

Yet on Monday this week I took a Chi bitch in to be spayed.  Went out shopping in my lunch break, not realising my mobile phone was in the car.  Got back to find voicemail.  My vet left a message to say the spay went fine, and he was just doing a scale and polish for me, but found a tooth that needed extracting, and he was calling for my permission.  As it happens I found the message too late, and he had to decide as my bitch was under, and he decided that I would have said yes, so went ahead.  He knows me so well. 

I just assumed that, as she had been sewed up after her spay, that the operation site would have been covered when he did the teeth.

There are other ways to clean the teeth. I know people who have had good results giving Fragaria and using Plaqueoff and Petzlife to soften the plaque which is then easily scraped off. Much better option than a g/a.

>There are other ways to clean the teeth.

I understand that, but actually brushing the teeth with a lot of dogs is not something I could fit in with the long hours that I work.  And dog sitter wouldn't be interested!  :-(

However, not everything works for everyone.  I have wasted a lot of cash on Plaqueoff and think it's rubbish.  Wish I hadn't wasted so much money on it.  I was religious in giving it to my Beardies for 6 months, and it did not work.

I tried to clean my first dog's teeth with a doggie toothbrush and toothpaste.  It was hilarious, extremely messy and not particularly efficient.  I didn't keep it up for longer than a week or so and can't imagine most other people would either.

It shows how things change in the world of veterinary care though doesn't it, with my last kitten my vet gave a free little tooth brush and tooth paste along with the usual gumf, must have been a little promo they were doing at the time, never done it in my life with any others but thought I would give it a go, after trying it a couple of times and getting my hand scratched to bits it went in the bin, my cats teeth always last very well into old age, but I dare say some people persevere with toothpaste for dogs and cats as some vets are quite pushy with the old toothpaste, mine used to try and push it until he checked my girls mouth of sparkling white teeth... and I just grin at him. :-)