I'm getting ready to welcome our little boy black lab,  and the last thing is the crate.  What size would you recommend so that he could use the crate when he is an adult if he wished to.  Never crate trained before so this is all new to me.

Many Thanks
Jane

As big as possible! A 48" should be about right.

If you have it too big as a pup then he will sleep and wee in there so buy one with a divider you can move as he grows so he only has a sleep area.

But only do that if you're going to have the crate beside your bed so that you hear him when he needs to toilet. If he's going to be too far away for you to reach him quickly it's far better to use a large crate as a playpen, with his bed in one end and a toilet area at the other.

>As big as possible! A 48" should be about right

I know some will think it's daft, but I use 42" for Chihuahua pups. It is rare for them to toilet in the crate, so I guess the trick is to ensure they are not in there for too long. Bear in mind that a Chi bladder is tiny, so it would be my fault if they did wee in there.

I know some will think it's daft, but I use 42" for Chihuahua pups.

I can see that point as I have a 42 inch one that sleeps one small Cavalier (6 kgs) and one small Papillon (3 kgs) only!

I have 42" crates for my Wire Haired Vizsla's (app 31kg boys).  They have plenty of room in there for stretching, standing and sleeping upside down with legs straight up in the air.  They're taller, and I suspect longer, than a Lab

I like Savic crates and have a divider for when they're puppies so it's not too big to start with.  However I start them upstairs with me in smaller crates  (first one is 24") and like the ones with a top opening door so I can drop a hand in for comfort.  This is the size I use in the car for their early journeys too as they can lean on the sides when I corner and it reduces the chances of travel sickness.

Have a look on eBay or Gumtree for a used crate - there are usually plenty to choose from and I do think it a good idea to have a couple to save you from lugging them around.  I fact I have 4 just for pups - 1 24" upstairs, 1 24" in the car, 1 42" in the utility room with the other dogs, and a 30" for the pup to grow into in the car before I leave it loose with dog guard and tailgate guard.  I can't say I'm planning on lots more dogs but seeing as I have spare crates it would be daft to get rid, wouldn't it?!!

My little patt terrier had a leg op recently and rather than move 1 crate around I bought one for the bedroom, one for the office, I already had a puppy one for the car and an enormous lab size crate for the lounge, out of all of them she preferred the very large one as she had enough freedom to move around, without damaging her leg. I would always go for the larger crate as it is more like their own little room rather than a prison cell and puppies need room to play and let off a little energy but in a safe environment.

> I would always go for the larger crate as it is more like their own little room rather than a prison cell and puppies need room to play and let off a little energy but in a safe environment.

Containing a dog after surgery is a little different to training a pup to use a crate and I think this is where the OP might find we offer different advice.  I use crates as beds only.  Pups, and adult dogs, are only shut in when it's time to go to sleep - and after they've had appropriate exercise, food, brain work, and other stimulation.  I might offer a chew toy to aid their relaxation but they don't play in their beds.  If I need to contain a pup for safety I tend to use baby gates and supervision rather than use a crate.

> I tend to use baby gates and supervision

LOL - when our younger dog was a pup we used that as much as possible (she was confined to the (large) kitchen unless she could be supervised 100% in the rest of the house until she was house trained/stopped chewing). However, she spent any unsupervised time chewing the units, floor, walls etc in the kitchen and as it is impossible to supervise a pup 100% of the time, she was put in her crate at night etc.  I didn't want to find out if plaster, paint, chipboard etc etc was good for her  :) :) :)

It's nice to have a larger crate but often it will be very hard to fit into available space. 

A 42 inch would be sufficient, and would still it into the back of a Discovery or large estate car, so more useful generally.

u can buy crates with dividers, this allows you to move divider as pup grows.

Why must people get a cage with their pup? I've never caged a pup, and have successfully reared many pups without a single one injuring themselves. Cages in cars are useful and even necessary for safety, but I really don't see why dogs should be caged in houses, hamsters fine but dogs no :-)

I know most people on here will use them properly, if there is a proper way to cage your dog. But I suspect many, many pet dogs are left in those cages for far too long - 8 hours overnight, 8 or 9 hours during the day, maybe while owner is eating or showering - the poor dogs could end up in there for 20 hours a day :(

> and have successfully reared many pups without a single one injuring themselves

Not just injuring themselves, but destroying/playing with clothes/electrical devices/phones etc etc etc :) Apart from a pair of flipflops left in the back porch, I don't think Tara actually destroyed a single item (apart from chewing the actual kitchen) :) :) :) :) So, apart from the kitchen damage which didn't matter as we were planning a new kitchen anyway, hence the timing of having a puppy, the cost/disruption was kept to a minimum :) :) :) Tara slept in her cage (with the door open) until she was 7 - she had a comfy bed next to it, but never used it :) :) Of course, I totally agree about inappropriate use of a cage. I was fortunate that when Tara was a puppy, I had both of my teenage children home from school/university until she was 5 months, so she could be supervised most of the day anway :) I don't see any difference to a human baby having a cot/playpen etc :)

>I don't see any difference to a human baby having a cot/playpen etc

The difference is that the impression often given is that the simple act of putting a puppy in a small crate means it magically won't need to toilet because 'dogs don't like to soil their beds'. Small crates mean the pup must (on welfare grounds) be let out very frequently, and this is where the misuse occurs. A large crate or playpen allows the pup to have room to move and play, and get away from its bed when it needs to toilet.

A baby wouldn't be expected not to soil its nappy simply because its in a cot or playpen, and neither should a puppy be expected to be clean.

I quite understand what you are saying and that owners that use crates must take the puppy out frequently, (according to stage of toilet training) to allow them to 'perform' :)

> A large crate or playpen allows the pup to have room to move and play, and get away from its bed when it needs to toilet.

Equally to your point, this could also mean that the owner may not be as attentive to the puppy's needs :) :)

My aim, when toilet training/using a crate, was to NOT let the puppy toilet indoors at all (where at all possible) :)

To add: I'm not sure whether, JG, you have edited your post, but, having read it again, I'm not sure now whether I am agreeing with you or not !! :) :) :)

>My aim, when toilet training/using a crate, was to NOT let the puppy toilet indoors at all (where at all possible)

That's mine too, but equally I prefer to get a reasonable night's sleep and clear up a possible mess in the morning than get up several times during the night on the offchance. For me a crate is simply a safe place for the pup to be when I need to be elsewhere, not a training aid. So my pups all have plenty of room to move, and luckily they're all housetrained very quickly. :-)

> destroying/playing with clothes/electrical devices/phones etc

Gosh I just think that's one of the things that happens with puppies. Any time my youngster eats something he shouldn't then I should really roll up a newspaper and hit myself over the head with it for leaving it lying around. I would rather tidy things away than confine him to a cage.

I do realise that it's a personal preference issue, but I hate the way people now think you MUST get a cage with a pup, like you can't possibly have a pup without one, you can, quite easily. :)

I completely agree that crates should not be abused and hate the way that some cultures feel it is fine for young dogs to be crated whilst they are at work.  Mine usually spend little or no time during the day shut in their crates - particularly the adult who I rarely crate except at night.

BUT I personally find them extremely useful for 2 reasons - one of my dogs feels the cold terribly and so I cover her crate over & she sleeps in a deep fleecy bed and is cosy and happy.  The other reason is that my house is open plan and so I can't shut the dogs anywhere.  I need to shut them away under 2 circumstances - if visitors are afraid of dogs, and if visitors have kids they can't control.  Then I want to protect my dogs from their kids.

I have a 7 month old very feisty Vizsla & although I can put most things out of her way I can't move all the chairs or skirting boards & if I'm not there I can't stop her getting on the surfaces for example.  So the potential is there for her to injure herself or do quite a bit of damage.  So I feel happy popping her in her crate for an hour or two roughly once a week.  Once she is an adult I won't shut her in - but leave it open as her haven.

Gosh I just think that's one of the things that happens with puppies. Any time my youngster eats something he shouldn't then I should really roll up a newspaper and hit myself over the head with it for leaving it lying around. I would rather tidy things away than confine him to a cage/b]

That made me chuckle and couldn't agree more, there is plenty of dog owners I'd like to do this too.

Never used a crate and never will,

Sheila

They're very handy when you go and stay in a hotel or B&B,  so it helps if the dog's familiar with sleeping in one. :-)

I said the same about crates till I had my first bitch in season, my plan for sending Rhuari to my Mum backfired as he wouldn't eat and whined constantly under his breath which drove her up the wall, I brought him back and swapped them between the lounge and kitchen, who ever was in the kitchen created so much noise as they were used to being with me and their doggie friend, so I ordered a large crate and hoped as both were adults they would accept it.

It arrived 2 days later complete with free divider, I set it up in the lounge and put Rhuari in first, he went in, layed down and went to sleep, he was in the lounge and very happy, the most settled he had been since the seaason had started,Chase took her turn but when I would open the door he would usually beat her to it. I now have several crates in varying sizes and puppy pens too, so useful to grab a dog and pop them in if there is a knock at the door I am not expecting, being so close to the ground not easy to block them from getting out the door if they are loose especially more than one.

Dogs should be used to being confined, if they have to go to the vets and stay or are injured and need strict rest, they are not going to become more agitated and cause themselves more injury or hamper treatment if they are used to it.

> They're very handy when you go and stay in a hotel or B&B,  so it helps if the dog's familiar with sleeping in one.

Or with family or friends.  It has been great over the years knowing that we are welcome where we might not otherwise have been precisely because they know their home and posessions are perfectly safe.

I can't see how a crate, used properly and in proportion, is any more an imposition and restriction on the dog as requiring them to wear a lead when out walking infact even less so as it is something that they will generally seek out and appreciate when it has never been used incorrectly.

I guess it's about choice some choose not to, some choose to. I can't say I find them helpful for the uses mentioned above mine just get incredibly stressed and one has even injured herself.

>mine just get incredibly stressed and one has even injured herself.

If they'd been used to sleeping in one, with the door open, since puppyhood then they wouldn't get stressed when the door's shut for a short while. It'd be no more stressful than going to a regular dog bed.

I only have one cage out at the moment and they squabble about who is going to have it.
Invaluable when my old lady is having a stroppy day and a few weeks ago when my young bitch was in season. They love the cage and look upon it as a treat rather than any sort of punishment.

Daisy's crate was invaluable to keep her secure when we had electricians in the house and I had to go out. Doors sometimes got left open but I knew she was safe.

I understand that for some however mine go everywhere with me :)

I will add though it was invaluable bonfire week as I put ay blanket over one and my scared girl would not come out.

I never used one until I found myself at a dog show with two dogs entered and nowhere you could tie one up while in the loo or the ring with the other.  Also when I stayed away with them in a hotel.

Mind you it was a godsend when the light n Easy ones came out though I wish I ahd waited and not paid the initial price.

At home for the first time I have the two youngsters sleeping in a crate (21 and 6 months), but only once they reached the teething stage, and never during the day. 

The last three have become chewers at teething stage and a lot of the framing in the kennel (their bedroom for some at night) has suffered and needs repairing. 

For the first time in 6 years and 4 pups later I have had some chewing damage in the kitchen.  Previously I have had lino chewed bit by bit until replaced by tile 6 eyars ago.

From a damage limitation point of view I suppose thsoe of us who have a new pup regualry it's mroe of an issue compared to those who only have a new pup every decade where a little damgae will fit in with redecorating schedule.

With a medium to large breed my chosen safety/containment equipment are tall dog/chid gates.  Wi9th 6 dogs, a short hallway and a busy road with bus route DOG GATES ARE VITAL, especially with non dog savvy visitros.

Even if you don't really use them at home, crates come into their own when travelling, so anyone who takes their dogs away with them vistiing should really teach their dogs to be happy in one.  In the past I ahve geneally only had one up in the kitchen for the latest pup with door open, only closing it when I fed the pup (to stop others eating it's food), then it just got used as a dog bed until I folded it up.  I do not like shutting dogs in crates for housetraining or any periods other than short safety issues during the day.  I have never left dogs crated while I leave the house.

I am old school as far as crates are concerned, I have never used them for dogs or puppies throughout my long life ( over 70 years ) however recently I was forced to use a crate when my dog had the luxating patella op. I hated it, however my dog seemed to love it - it was her own 'safe 'zone.
Even now when the specialist told me I no longer needed to crate her I have kept the bedroom crate in place, albeit with the door open. She runs straight in and doesn't seem to care whether the door is open or closed as it is her bedroom.
By keeping her used to going into the crate it will be handy when visitors or repair men etc are in the house, also (heaven forbid) should I need to use it again for her in the future. I have completely changed my mind on crates and if used properly are a great help.

My friend who has been flooded was the same, but with number of dogs increasing including an imported pup has taken to using crates for specific purposes. 

The old 14 year old loves the young males varikennel that he flew over in, keeps him safe from the youngsters playing and bumping and is cosy and draught free.

It has helped lots with the disruption and having to stay away from home with five dogs for the last two weeks, staying in a campervan.

To nobody in particular. Its personal choice as to whether people use crates or not but I certainly think it has its advantages if a dog is comfortable in a crate and sees it as the norm, particularly if you are staying away or travelling in the car, for example.
My dog used a crate as a pup and I have to say I think he was a lot happier having access to it and being secure overnight and at noisy times. it was also peace of mind for me that he was in there. No different to knowing my child is safe and secure in her cot and knows that 'cot time' is quiet bed time. Certainly not to be put in there as a punishment.  A house is an incredibly large space for a small pup and I know Fred was always glad to have 'quiet time' in his 'den'. Admittedly I dont use it now as I have no need to but I feel confident that if he had to be crated for example after an op or if we were staying somewhere out of the ordinary then he would be calm and happy in there.