Well....I was thinking of doing some showing with my pup but I'm having second thoughts now.

It seems fraught with all sorts of problems!

Open shows sound like chaos, and I'm not sure about champ shows, I'm only a learner and don't want to be out of my depth. Would hate someone to be snide and nasty to me :-(

In a numerically small breed you are actually better off starting at champ shows as you will find more of your breed there with most owners willing to help and befriend.  The best idea is to go to a show where your pups breeder will be or the owner of the sire, as they will take you under their wing and introduce you around.

Even better are breed club shows, especially the breed Open shows.

Open shows unless you have made friends at a local ringcraft where members are likely to go to the show too for a newbie can be very lonely and boring, unless your the sort happy to approach and talk to a lot of complete strangers. 

You may not even find any of your own breed, or worse still find only one or two who are the local big fish in small pond, some of who may try to put new competition, as they don't have dogs good enough for larger competition.  Such people are in the minority, but could put someone off the whole idea. 

Like in all walks of life there will be those who are nice and others not so.

I think us old hands are probably picking out the worst.
Over the years I have met some lovely like minded people who have become firm friends for many years. To the newbie I would say that in the main, people who attend dog shows are  much nicer people than you would meet  anywhere else. I have had some lovely touching things happen, when complete strangers have offered to lend a hand when I have been struggling.
There are those who are nasty, stake themselves a place and will try to defend their teritory to the end, but I would say in my experience they are the minority.
Like others have said try and go to your first show where your breeder will be, and a decent number of your breed. If you post on here when you have entered a show, if anyone else of your breed is on here I am sure they will look out for you and make sure they say hello.

I noticed on a few posts on this thread that people were talking about chalking, I thought that this was now banned ????

What is the situation like abroad, I have never shown abroad but I was talking to someone in my breed who had and they said it was much better, in that each breed had it's own little area, and parking was close by, so people used their cars as a base and had picnics. I am not sure which show she was talking about and the numbers of dogs would probably be lower than UK Champ Shows, but I would be interested in hearing othere experiences that are good and bad.

The KC sent me a survey quite a while ago, now asking about shows and venues, but I never heard any results. Perhaps more should be done to get a picture of best practice, exit surveys of exhibitors on what they liked didn't like etc. Some societies deserve an accolade for how well they organise their events, but others could perhaps learn from them as they seem to fail to provide for the needs of the present day exhibitors.

Suejaw, yes they were Open shows I went to.  I'll have to try to get to one or two Champ shows in the near future.

Brainless - > plenty of breeds that don't require that level of grooming

Sadly I chose my favourite breed before I had thoughts of showing, so he's a hairy little chap who'll need quite a bit of coat preparation for showing.  If I'd been thinking of showing, I'd have dusted off my list of must-have dogs and chosen a wipe-clean breed :) .

I agree that finances are a consideration, however, I went as a dogless member of the public and was surprised to be allowed to enter free (I bought a catalogue and raffle tickets as a contribution), which since I could have stayed all day there enjoying watching the dogs was actually so much of a bargain as to be embarrassing.  I wouldn't have objected to paying £5 for entry:  where else can one spend all day for free with no expectation that one will buy anything?  (I can only think of the Public Library, and there are no dogs there lol :) .)

I don't know enough about the financial model of dog showing to offer suggestions as to how it might be done better.

> I'm only a learner and don't want to be out of my depth

Me too; my pup's breeder lives quite far from where I live, and I was a bit disappointed with the lack of encouragement when I mentioned that I was thinking of showing my pup.  I hasten to add that he has the correct number of parts, and seems to meet the breed standard as far as a I can tell from reading it - that's one of the reasons I want to show him, to get a proper assessment of him from a proper judge, as well as building a new interest and meeting new people who share my love of dogs in general and my breed in particular. 

Merrypaws did you tell the breeder you wanted to show the puppy when you bought it ? It may be that the breeder is not encouraging you to show as not all puppies from a litter are show quality.
If you are looking for a puppy to show, it is always better to tell the breeder that at the outset, some ugly ducklings turn into swans and vice versa, but depending on the breed, there can be a lot of variables in determing which puppies will have show potential.
This is entirely different from the health and temperament of the puppy as most good breeders will try to produce healthy dogs, and make sure they are well socialised so they fit into their new homes, but when looking at a litter and selecting which if any are likely to do well in the show ring, there is a lot more to it.

I'd say even if a puppy wasn't purchased for show it doesn't take much for the breeder to assess the dog or get someone nearby to see what they think, it maybe it has potential and needs time, it maybe it is a very good example or maybe not, either way even if the breeder doesn't show if they are a decent one they should be encouraging all the way and honest too.. I'm fed up with seeing and hearing about less than encouraging breeders out there, no need for it... There are on the flip side some lovely breeders who do care and keep in rich and encourage all the way whatever the owners decide to do with said puppy...

I say if a newbie get yourself to Ringcraft, give it a go, learn the basics and get in the ring for confidence, you may surprise yourself.
I've made some fab decent people from the dog works including shows and Ringcraft... It's a shame as in most things the minority ruin it for the majority... In this country and I'm the same we are quick to moan about the nada things and not the best about shouting about all the good things going on..

I enjoy showing with my friends, it's a doggy day out and open shows are my fav as if organised we sort out lunch to all share :-)

Suejaw I would agree with you but was trying to diplomatic. We have all seen new people turn up at a show with an obviously pet quality puppy, and I have know breeders have had to have a word with owners who have decided to show a puppy that they had sold as a pet.
Sometimes there are pups that breeders do not feel are the best examples and they would rather they not been show, therefore they would not encourage pet owners to show such puppies.
Things are not always as black and white as they may first appear.
As a child I turned up at a championship show with my dog on a lead and I could not get in, I did not know you had to enter in advance, but though I thought my dog was the most wonderful thing on four legs and he was KC registered he was not the best example of the breed, as he was bought just as a pet.  It was only in later life that I learned that you needed to do a lot more research, look at a lot of dogs and decide which lines you liked, and then approach the breeders and probably have  to wait for a considerable time for a suitable puppy that had show potential.

Indeed Dorcas, however just to snub a person isn't on as the breeder probably hasn't seen the pup in as many months and it may look different now.. It may still not be suitable for showing, but until it's assessed by someone honest in the breed it's all an unknown.

The breeder of my girl sold her auntie to a pet home, the owner took her to some companion shows and was spotted by someone who told her to show, she gave it a go and what would you know she made it to be a champ!! So goes to show even if someone isn't interested to start with on showing doesn't mean puppy won't grow on..

I think until this puppy is assessed by someone known and trusted in the breed no one will ever know. Or stick it in an open show after Ringcraft training and see what happens.. Nothing lost from doing that..

Dorcas, no, he was bought as a pet;  I'm quite happy for him to be a pet, and very happy with his health and temperament.  His breeder did say they would have kept him if they'd been wanting another male.  What made me think about showing him was that many people have commented favourably about him, so I thought I'd see just how good (or indeed otherwise :) ). I've only had rescues or re-homes before, and even I can see there's a refinement about him physically that the (much loved and treasured) others have lacked.  He is only 7 months, so has some maturing to do, and may lose it all when he is an adult. 

ETA:  Thank you for being diplomatic! :)

Suejaw, Thank you.  We have been going to Ringcraft since he completed his vaccinations, and no-one laughed when we went in.  He has been learning to be shown, and has received encouraging assessment, although he is the only one of his breed where we go (I'm planning to try one or two other groups to get a wider assessment).  He has also won two 2nd places at match night so is not a complete no-no.

I plan to go to one or two Open shows (which is where I came in on this thread) so that he can compete against others of his age-range and breed:  if we do reasonably well I can plan to go a bit further and maybe try a Champ show or two till I see how he goes - there seem to be some good pups out there (have been reading results and critiques online and in the Dog papers). 

If he does well, I shall be very happy.  If he never gets placed even when he's the only entry lol! then I shall still be very happy, and go on just feeling smug when people with crosses of his breed tell me how lovely he is ;) .

And of course many of us hope for someone who wants to show, yet when they are not forthcoming have to let the most promising pups go to pet homes when we are restricted to what we can keep and cannot run dogs on.

Many top winning dogs in my breed have not come into the show ring until they are adult as their owners have become more interested, like a male I bred who went on to win his title, and his owners bought a half sister from another breeder and also made her up.

Sometimes dogs have come back to the breeder (like my Jozi whose 13th birthday was yesterday) to date she is my most successful show bitch based on number of CC's (10).

I would just say Merrypaws, to get a true assessment of your dog you will need to attend several championship shows.

Often with less well known breeds and less knowledgeable (re your breed) judges at Open shows can get it pretty wrong at Open show level.

Unless you know the judge is a breed expert I'd take results at open shows with a large pinch of salt, but they are great for learning the ropes for you and the dog. 

Mind you if you notch up some gropup results at Open level I'd say your dog has something.

>And of course many of us hope for someone who wants to show, yet when they are not forthcoming have to let the most promising pups go to pet homes when we are restricted to what we can keep and cannot run dogs on.

Wish that happened in my breed! But to Merrypaws, I would say give it a go, start with some open shows, take the advice you hear but weigh it against other advice. Most people will be welcoming and helpful, but particularly if yours is a carefully trimmed breed, watch out for the occasional person who may give bad advice to get your dog to look worse so he doesn't beat your dog! Not common, but it can happen!

Well I have toy and gundog breeds.  I use the trolley when I show my gundogs.  I do not like the food provided at shows nor think they are worth the money they charge.  My mum comes with me and does the food which goes into a bag, we take a chair each as there's no way that I can stand up as I have bad back problems nor could I sit on the provided chairs all day. 

When it comes to an open show if we are taking a Pom and just one Spanish, the Pom is in his box and I just bring a vet bed for Calida to lie on, if I've got 2 Spanish entered then I do need a cage. 

Even though my mum's got a disability badge sometimes it's still quite a distance from the carpark to the show ring and there's no way that I could cope with dogs, chairs and food trolley all that way, I'd be on the floor lying down for my back if I did this LOL.

>I noticed on a few posts on this thread that people were talking about chalking, I thought that this was now banned ????

Not according to current (Jan 2012) regulations

2. (a) No substance which alters the natural colour, texture or body of the coat
may be present in the dog's coat for any purpose at any time during the
Show. No substance which alters the natural colour of any external part
of the dog may be present on the dog for any purpose at any time
during the Show.
(b) Any other substance (other than water) which may be used in the
preparation of a dog for exhibition must not be allowed to remain in the
coat or on any other part of the dog at the time of exhibition.

As long as it is brushed out you can use it for cleaning I believe

That has always been the case.

Should be interesting for any Americans showing their Newfs... Spray painting and dying their fur is common occurrence out there!!!

I know presentation is important but when it takes over its very worrying and all the hairspray being used on many breeds, even Bernese are now starting to be presented like this now... :-(

Apparently if it's done in the US it WILL make its way over here, only way to stop some of these practices is for the KC to make a stance... Why do we need to poof and puff coats to the max? Clean and tidy is one thing but some things people do its shocking, these are dogs not dolls!!

Have to agree, would hate the kind of prep our breed gets in the USA, they use chalk, cholesterol(don't even know what that does or is other than what clogs your arteries), volumisers, etc etc.

They also trim stay hairs (sculpt more like), off belly tail set etc.  Bath the day before or day of show, and blast the coats so they stand up.  This in a breed that is supposed to have a weather proof close fitting double coat, and is a hunting breed.

Here it's the occasional bath, comb and brush and never ever touched by scissors, and that's is how it should stay, and how it is shown in it's country of origin, hunting/trailing one day showing the next.

Google the breed in USA and then Norsk Elghund Gra, for the difference.

Oh I agree to - dogs should be as natural as is possible in my opinion. When we showed our bernese you trimmed the feet and that was it - and even then some people 'frowned' upon it. At some shows even here there are more styling products, combs and scissors in grooming bags than there at at my hairdressers :-D

Think you mean Kolestrol which is from Wella, it's a strengthening cream for hair, you use a small amount to keep chalk in the coat, so I'm told.

It would seem in some breeds that clever grooming and styling are more important than the dogs confirmation. Judges are supposed to get their hands on the dogs and really feel what is underneath the heavily coated breeds.
A lot of judges do and you can see them, getting to grips, but others hardly seem to place their hands on them. Whilst dogs should be clean, and well presented, according to their breed, some of the elaborate hair styles would render the dog " Not Fit For Function " Surely confirmation should be the first consideration for any judge, and coat should be further down the line in their considerations.
If people are still using all sorts of preperations on coats to change the colour and texture then that is cheating, but I do remember their were all sort of protests recently from some of the top handlers, about random coat testing, and then it all went quiet in the dog press and nothing further happened. Mmhhh !