I'd be grateful for comments and advice on this problem.

My too-waggy 7 month old pup has damaged the end of his tail and it's slow to heal and prone to re-open.  He has seen the vet once and had antibiotics, and is going again on Monday for a check-up.  It's now been just a month, and the vet did say that it can take several weeks to heal completely. It is not dressed, but I am washing it (dunking) in salt water (boiled and cooled) when it re-opens, and applying aloe vera gel.  It is not hot, and appears clean and uninfected when I check it, (quick check when he's on the grooming table daily).  However, pup is now licking at it from time to time and it appears to have started to niggle him.

He is my 5th full-tailed dog in many years of dog-owning, and the first to have hurt himself this way, so I have no experience of this sort of wound. 

Has anyone used the tail tip protectors from Bonovate (www.bonovate.com), and if so, would you recommend their use?

What breed is he?

He's a cocker spaniel.

When my dal used to do this (as a breed they're notorious for it) I used to dip the end of her tail two or three times a day in a solution of alum (it used to be available as a powder from chemists) with a drop of TCP added. It used to work really well at healing the wound within days.

I tried bandaging the end of her tail once but it hurt really badly when she whipped us with it, and my son was only small at the time so his face was at tail height!, so I took it off as soon as possible and tried leaving it open to the air.

Thanks, Jeangenie, I'll have to see if alum powder is still available, I'm sure I've got some TCP lurking.  I'm a great believer in the healing properties of "not poking at things and letting the air get to it".

One of my dogs has done this and we put tubing of the plastic variety around it and then wrapped in vetwrap and this made a big difference in the healing otherwise he was either opening from wagging or chewing it!!!

Is he shown? Do you keep him in full coat(or hairy tail)?

Reason I ask is, I have a working springer who had a tail tip injury.  My vet healed it up a few time but the last time, he decided it would be fairer to whip the tail off.  She is now fully docked(legally) and has had no problems since.  This was done through her insurance.  The vet had said at the time that although it will heal, she would always have a weakness and it could open anytime which was no bother while young but as she aged, healing on the tail especially becomes much more difficult.  No questions, we removed the tail and she was back in the field the following week.

Other side, I have a springer that comes to me for grooming with a tail tip injury.  He is shaved in every 8 weeks including his tail(which I think caused the injury).  After he started coming to me, I left the end of his tail a bit thicker(imagine a lions but shorter) and it worked.  His tail healed up and hasn't caused any bother since.

In general healing tails is very difficult there seems to be few nerves in the lower part of the tail so even when it is injured the dog still goes gaily on bashing against everything. The only thing that I have seen work is the placing of the foam used to cover pipes to stop them freezing over the end and protruding a little past but that is not likely to work on a puppy and it may be as well to have a couple of segments removed to allow the vet to make a good closure.

Sudocrem on everything in this house. My kids used to think I had shares in the stuff !!! My working type springer undocked has done it a couple of times, but not badly enough to require stiching, but I do leave her tail feathering on which I think helps.

What a shame about the "Docking Laws" that we now have. I hear of so many Cockers and Springers that damage their long tails these days only to have the offending end removed with an operation involving an anesthetic and unnesecary worry and expense at a later date. How much simpler it would be to reduce the length when only 3 days of age. I do however think that the show type cockers tails were docked extremely short when this was lawfull and that the tails should have been at least long enough to cover their private parts when needed.
How horrible for the poor dogs to have pieces of insulating sponge and little plastic tubes taped and bandaged on to their tails to protect them and how hideous the poor things must look

>How horrible for the poor dogs to have pieces of insulating sponge and little plastic tubes taped and bandaged on to their tails to protect them and how hideous the poor things must look

No more 'horrible and hideous' than a dog having to wear a plaster cast while its broken leg mends, or a buster collar to stop it removing its stitches following surgery. ;-)

How horrible for the poor dogs to have pieces of insulating sponge and little plastic tubes taped and bandaged on to their tails to protect them and how hideous the poor things must look
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That is only whilst it heals, although it is true that once damaged it is not easy to stop further damage unless it is docked. Do not think this is particularly a problem with dogs that were once docked my experience has been with GSD and Newfie neither normally docked although some of the gun dogs do have over active wagging action which would make them more likely to be damaged.

BTW show dogs were docked to different lengths as were working dogs, and some were left quite long it depends on the breed and one assumes the use the dog was originally put to and the length would be decided by trial and error. Cockers were short because they work undergrowth whereas some gundogs are not docked at all perhaps because they did not frequently damage their tails.

Having had a Boxer who damaged his tail and needed to have 2/3rds amputated (his tail now looks like
a weim length dock - vet didn't want to amputate shorter in case of infection)
It's not a very nice operation for an adult dog to have to endure.
Takes a long time to heal, and is incredibly painful for the dog.

It's something that I hope we don't have to go through again.

I have got docked, bobtail and (RIP) had a longtailed girl up to Thursday.
So I don't have a pro/anti docking problem.
My long tailed one who died on Thursday never had issues with her tail yet her litter brother did.
Their tails were similar in type and hairyness and tail sets, so am not sure why we had problems with one
tail and not the other. Both were vigourous waggers too.

Ah but a plaster cast and buster collar are part of a cure, insulating sponge and tubes taped on in many cases do not solve the long term problem. It frequently happens again and again.

Any breed can damage its tail, mine was a Bernese so in no way has it ever been docked.. What do you suggest that we should of docked his tail?

Just because a dog damages it's tail once doesn't mean it's gonna happen again and again...
Currently have a breed which was traditionally docked and never had an issue with it(touch wood)

Anyway the consensus appears to be get some form of tubing so that the tail can still breathe and wrap the tubing up onto the tail leaving the end open so air can circulate...

Good luck to the OP who started this thread and hope it heals soon

It frequently happens again and again

Often it just does not heal and some of the tail has to be removed, not sure if some breeds heal better than others but was told by the vet that the spinal cord stops just past the end of the body and that there are few nerves beyond about a inch so the tail does not hurt when being banged on things and is very prone once damaged to infection because the end of the spine is exposed.

At the moment I have a breed that carries the tail over the back so are rarely damaged although I do know of one who lost a piece from the end when it was stood on and the dog seemingly unaware got up and moved away.

Cracar, Thank you for insights.  I have been thinking of showing him (plans on hold till his tail is healed) and he is in puppy coat with a hairy tail.  The vet did not dress the tail as he said that the hair would be a better protector and less troublesome to pup.  

  

Many thanks to all who have commented. 

My personal preference is against docking so I very much hope not to have to resort to it for pup, but it's clear I shall always have to keep a watchful eye on him, and give careful consideration to where he is walked.  A previous (from rescue) full-tail cocker spent most of his youth looking for rabbits in bramble patches and never had a scratch on him - but he did have a very abundant coat, including a well-furred tail.

A RCC winning dog litter brother to one of my champion bitches, has had his tail docked to a nub (rottie length), as it was not healing.  he unfortunately had a sebaceous cyst on his tail, and it was forever causing trouble, he got quite depressed.

After his tail was removed his owner couldn't believe how happy he was, he has become a real puppy.  he looks like a giant Schiperke in Elkhound colours, LOL

> I do know of one who lost a piece from the end when it was stood on and the dog seemingly unaware got up and moved away.

That was my Tula, I was untying her lead and she jumped up, not realising I was stood on the hair of her tail.  We were close to the vets so rushed straight in, where she had to have another inch removed so they had enough skin to cover the end.  From loosign it to ahving it amputated, and sown up was less than an hour which the vet says probably saved her tail.

I got permission to continue to show and carried the letter, but judges didn't notice unless they unfurled her tail.

Having had lots of gundogs over the years, both docked and undocked breeds, who have had long and active lives and gone in all sorts of undergrowth, very few undocked dogs have ever damaged their tails.
I think sometimes vets are very quick to dock adult dogs, when with care and attention the tail would heal.
One of mine has had several cut pads, she is accident prone, but I would not cut her feet off because she keeps cutting her pads, so why would you cut a tail off for that reason.
I am just extra vigilante about where I take, my big heavy girl who just seems to find sharp stones, or other objects to jump on.
When she was recovering from one injury I did try several types of boot, but as soon as you let her off lead, she shot off in one direction and the boot flew off in the other, despite my best efforts to secure it.
As others have said tail injury is not confined to just the traditionaly docked breeds, and any dog can damage it's tail, just like with exhuberance they can damage other parts of their body, thats dogs, and we just have to do our best to let them enjoy life and their natural behaviours and at the same time try to keep them safe.

Docking is a very emotive subject and a lot of people want to bring it back, and see tail injury as a justification, I think the legislation was brought in as their is no real justification for the mutilation of puppies, it is here now, and they need to get over it and move on.

Merrypaws, you can still show him if he is docked for medical reasons (as he would be if you had him docked).

Unfortunately once these tail problems start, they tend to continue and the wound tends to reopen and the problem tends to go on.  I've heard it many times before.

The best (most permanent) solution is to dock.  If you didn't want to, you needn't do the full dock - usually just taking the tip off (which keeps reopening) is enough for it to heal.

More and more, we see accounts of dogs which are undocked getting hurt in this way and it becomes apparent why we docked dogs in the first place.  Here's a letter from Sweden into GSPs discussing the fact that one in 3 GSPs now have damaged tails in Sweden: http://www.cdb.org/countries/sweden.htm

More stats, this time for the UK:  http://www.cdb.org/News/news38.html

It would be a shame if this is turned into a docking for and against discussion can we not leave it up to an individual to know what is most humane for their dogs and talk about how to deal with a tail once injured not the reason for it having happened.

> and that the tails should have been at least long enough to cover their private parts when needed.

LOL - with a hairy breed this isn't a problem (nor in breeds where the tail is carried erect) :) :) My younger dog is docked and many people think she is a collie and don't even notice that she hasn't a tail :) :) :)

LOL - with a hairy breed this isn't a problem

With my breed half the character of the breed is the well built cheeky bottoms, never though it a problem their not having their private bits covered in fact I think it a good thing no dirty trousers with an elkhound and their "bum hole" is a joy to behold :-)

>and their "bum hole" is a joy to behold :-)

LOL! There's no accounting for taste! :-D

Nova I would agree with you that is up to the individual, but there are those in the pro-docking camp who never miss an opportunity to put their views forward, as in previous post advising the poster to dock. And infering that it should be brought back.
There is no need to get into a debate about docking as the legislation is already in place, but some people are reluctant to accept it.
We are all entitled to our opinions, but sometimes we have to give both sides for there to be a balance.

Love the " bum hole" comment.

Um, hello?

Someone has posted about their dog with a damaged tail tip.  I gave specific info for their precise circumstances - a medical solution which is often recommended by vets anyway - even anti-docking vets - since it is recognised that it is a medical solution to the presenting problem.

Yes, I then gave a few links to help the person feel less bad, should they decide to go ahead with docking their dog. 

I don't think I need everyone to come down on me like a ton of bricks.  I am not opening up a docking debate, I am merely pointing out that it is what is usually suggested in these situations when (as often happens) bandaging it up and trying to let it heal, fails. 

Furthermore, the person has a breed of dog which (statistically) is many, many more times likely to damage an undocked tail than some other breeds.

Stigmatising docking and making out it is 'mutilation' is hardly going to be helpful if it later turns out that this is what the OP's vet recommends... how are they going to feel about it then?

What a shame about the "Docking Laws" that we now have. I hear of so many Cockers and Springers that damage their long tails these days only to have the offending end removed with an operation involving an anesthetic and unnesecary worry and expense at a later date. How much simpler it would be to reduce the length when only 3 days of age.

My remarks were more in reply to the above post by Wee Man.

The OP should not feel guilty if the wound does not heal, and the best option is to surgicaly remove it.
But having seen the numbers of adult dogs that are being docked listed in the KC Gazette it does make one wonder if all these dogs are having accidents or.
A)  People are getting round the ban.
B) Docking Adult dogs to make a point.
There does seem to be an awful lot of dogs, of the same breeds and sometimes from the same owners/Kennels that are having to have surgical removal of tails and then apply for permission to show.

Oh sorry dorca, misunderstood then.

I do know of lots of entirely show bred litters which are still being docked because breeders are getting a shotgun licence (not difficult and no need to actually shoot the gun), or letter from a gamekeeper who is a friend - it's not difficult.  It is still possible to show at many shows and these breeders are just deciding they'd rather have a docked dog they can only show at certain shows, than an undocked one they can show everywhere. 

Very many thanks to everyone who has replied and for helpful suggestions.  Happily pup has been more comfortable with his tail today and it appears to be healing a bit better.  Clearly there is some magic in asking for advice which sets things going in the right direction :) .

I was told that sometimes a hair roller you know like Edna in Corrie and the like used to wear
is useful when trying to heal tails as a protector for the end and then I guess vet wrap onto tail.

With Alfie poor soul he found the whole thing rather traumatic and painful.
Very relieved when it finally was all healed and we could remove the buster collar.

Hope your puppy continues to improve and heals quickly.

>It would be a shame if this is turned into a docking for and against discussion

I agree. Can we keep this thread on track please and answer the initial question :)

Great it's healing allready.  Probably not that bad an injury.  Boxacrazy has a great idea with the roller but you need to use loads of tape to hold it on and if he's a pup, tape the jaw too!!lol.

I just wanted to re-post as the 'docking debate' made ME wonder about my comments so I wanted to explain.  I am neither for nor against the docking ban.  My breeds look good either way so I have never cared really.  If I had to choose, I would pick with the tail.  The only reason I whipped her tail off when she injured it was because it was bad and re-curring frequently and my vet recommended it.

Our vet advised us the same far kinder on the dog to take more of the tail than keep having
to take a little bit off each time, and I didn't want to keep putting a dog under a GA and going
through the pain of a possible number of operations if we could avoid it.
So under consultation with our vet and going on their experiences with damaged tails we opted
for what we thought would be the kindest option for our dog.

Just updating on this - at very long last.  In case anyone searches for the topic and may find it useful.

Thanks to everyone who offered helpful tips - it took a good ten weeks for the tail tip to heal completely (at one time I was counting "hours since it last bled"), and he was shy of its being touched for a week or so longer.  We didn't find that a covering of any sort worked with him, none lasted for more than five minutes: mostly the solutions we tried made it bleed more, and all types attracted him to bite at them.

Attendance at training classes was suspended as the excitement caused extreme wagging and "scarlet tail".

Local Boots could not supply the alum powder recommended by a poster, and while checking out on-line suppliers, a friend and grey-hound owner recommended a styptic powder, which I was able to obtain locally the same day. Each time the tail bled, it was dunked in salt water, and the powder applied, pup then sat (very good pup :) ) on the grooming table for 15 minutes to let it "work", and the time between bleeds gradually lengthened until they no longer occurred.

Luckily we were able to avoid amputation (which the vet had begun to mention) and he is now back to normal, although I am extra careful to ensure that solid objects are out of range of his wag.

Well done.  Witch Hazel will act as a styptic, it's very good at stopping bleeding.

I have just had this with Merlot. Not sure how she did it but I noticed blood up the walls when Vino came into season and assumed it was her waving her tail end around. However she stopped bleeding and the blood still kept appearing.. on close inspection I found Merlot had hurt her tail (No indication it still wagged for England !)
We wrapped it up and it seemed to help but after a week it was still bleeding when I washed it and so she saw the vet. She had ABX for 3 weeks as it looked a bit messy and we kept it wrapped. The final bandage had to stay on for 7 days without removal , Vet put Manuka honey on then dressed it. I am pleased to say that now after 5 weeks it is fine. Just a bit short of fur where we wrapped a little bit into the bandage to keep it on. Merlot is very good and does not chew or pull at dressings so no trouble keeping it wrapped up !
No reason why it should happen again...she is 8 1/2 now and this is the first time I have had a dog do this in 45 years of owning dogs of many breeds. Docking is not nessecary unless the tail tip is very badly damaged or infected.
Strange but ALL dogs wag thier tails...and sometimes damage them, like feet or ears ! I just cannot understand those who carp on all the time about tails being a danger to the dog !! and jump in recomending docking at the first drop of blood. Time and care is all that is needed.
Aileen

I have just had to make a huge decision to amputate on an 8 year old Yorkshire Terrier.  I only hope that the damn thing will heal properly.  I didn't have any idea that it would bother me as much as it has.  Back in the 70's all my Poodles were docked, I don't ever remember anyone arguing that they shouldn't be.

As another traditionally docked breed, it is a bit of an eye opener to realise how my viewpoint has altered over the years.  If my Yorkie girl could have been treated any other way, I would have welcomed it.

There is a new product to help with this type of tail tip damage (it's sometimes called Happy Tail).  I don't know if I can post links here but you can find it by searching for "Tail-Bandit".