started showing about 6 months ago, first showdog and we've done amazingly well :) ive got to say though after the day we had today reconsidering. been to all the champshows uk wide and quite a few open and im disgusted by some peoples behaviour towards others. had a gd day winning bp, group 1 :) but ruined by nasty comments,moving my stuff and other rude gestures and got to say there are all should we call them old timers so didn't really want to bite back.have turned a blind eye to it before but today it was relentless and i am the so conscientious of where i put my stuff,dog etc.
anyway rant over i hear arguments about low entries and falling numbers, has a young newbie to the show world in not surprised such a shame because a good day cant be totally ruined by a few hardcore exhibitors 

Is this a breed thing do you think? The green eyed monster?

I have to say I was made to feel very welcome by folk of my own age or older, I was new but being in my 50's was no spring chicken, what I did find that when I was taken round to be introduced to some breed specific forum members I knew online they were all youngsters, very rude and barely said hello before going back to texting etc., I had been so looking forward to meeting these folk in the flesh and was sorely disappinted.

Have you made friends with anyone that you can meet up with at shows, I contacted breed club members via their web sites and took it from there and now there are a group I join up with at shows, there are always at least a couple going from different parts of the country.

Hope things improve for you soon.

Well done on your wins and doing so well with your first show dog!! :-)

These people who have moved your stuff, are they in your breed and does this only happen at certain shows? They have no right to move it and you can bet your bottom dollar if you approached them they'd say they were moving you stuff to a safer place or something equally similar. Did they tell you that they had moved it or give you the nod?
As for comments are you happy about putting the type of stuff on here what is being said?
Is your dogs breeder local and do they show or can they help?

I think from what you are saying is these woman are jealous and are trying to push you out, don't let them...if you enjoy the day don't allow them to ruin this for you.
Do you have friends in the same or another breed you can sit with and leave your stuff or someone you can take with you?
The behaviour I've seen towards newbies who do well in some breeds is not good and they are nothing more than a group of bullies and this does need to be stamped out!!!
If they aren't involved could you call your breeder and also someone on the club committee for advice on this, they have some top tips..
Have you tried speaking with these people not necessarily to find out why they are behaving in this way but to befriend them, kill them with kindness helps sometimes...

I think it's disgusting but please dot allow them to push you put of the breed or this hobby of you enjoy it!!!

Personally I have definitely found it to be breed specific, sadly. Have been in two breeds where people were, shall we say, less than friendly, but in Belgian Shepherds, I was welcomed from day one and that was what really got me into showing Malinois in the first place -long before I was winning much. It's such a shame some people can't behave! :(

no not breed specific just a minority, i find people in my breed helpful and friendly and most of the time other exhibitors :) very small venue but nothing new and i was there from 0930, in the afternoon when people arrived for their classes i took my dog out to walk and on my return my crate etc had been moved and replaced by someone's stuff into a walkway to the ring! chucking rubbish,dog hair on the floor around them and i just found a few people really don't care who or what's around them :(

It is a British trait to move other people's stuff!  Never experienced it anywhere but the UK, once in Ireland but it was a UK exhibitor who moved several crates belonging to others.  Never on the continent.  A couple of years ago at WELKS put two crates along in the designated area along a wall at the side of the building.  The ONLY two crates there, took a dog in the ring came back and a Norfolk or Norwich exhibitor had set up 2 crates and a grooming table in front of my crate actually within 1 inch of the crate door so I could not even open the crate.  They also had put a steaming hot cup of coffee on my other crate which had tipped over and was dripping into the crate onto my other dog.  I asked them to move over politely and give me room and they glared and swore at me!!!  There was at least 30ft of clear space they could have used.  Had to get a WELKS official to get them to move.  They ever once apologised for the sticky and what could have been harmful hot coffee on my other crate and dog.  Sadly it happens, I now set up and place a chair or two in front of my crates and stuff while I go and get the dogs as a barrier and it has seemed to help though you will get those who think they have the right to do what they like, just ignore them.  A minority as said before.

thanks for all your comments , i should have said something because these few people are obvious bully's and have got ideas above their station. in the bpis ring this women ended up next to me and i made sure i stayed well away but first line up tried to talk to me after being so rude in the morning and then in final line up kept telling me to move up when she had about four foot either side of her and the dog at first i just ignored her but she just got louder and louder. Anyway a few lessons learnt and unfortunately ruined my day, really enjoy showing my dog but will be rethinking my entries in future. thanks again :)  

I wouldn't dream of moving someone else's stuff, if I arrived too late to get the prime spots then so be it I would just have to find a gap elsewhere.

As for placing anything on top of someones crate and a hot beverage at that is horrendous, if I am alone and have more than one dog with me I need to know the one not in the ring is safe in my absence, I would be reporting these folk for risking my dogs health by their selfish actions, who wants to come back to a scalded, distressed sodden dog, you may have returned to just swap dogs and be greeted by this awful mess and be unable to compete, pics would be taken and officials found.

I'm a Brit and don't accept that is how we all behave just because we are from the UK.

This year in Gibraltar I came back from the ring and found a really nice a Yorkie by himself on my grooming table. Nearly sold it (not really) to a passing by young girl that fell in love with him, and asked me if he was for sale, and when I asked her how much she would pay, she answered 1400£.

The owner eventually came back, with another yorkie, and kept using my grooming table without asking, for pictures, while completely ignoring me. She only moved along when I took one of my bitches out of the crate, and she made clear that she thought they were some kind of furry rats.

Sounds like some people haven't been remembering their manners! I think some people can do that quite innocently (I for one nearly stepped on another exhibitor's dog at a champ show when I was new to it!) but it does sound like some people are being nasty to you. You do get to know the same faces even in other breeds around open shows because you tend to show in the same area, and it can be a bit catty. I always leave my husband or my mum with my things or my dog and don't leave anything unsupervised unless it's a table, etc. I'm very conscious of it as so many people nick things these days! Have you thought of taking someone with you?

my husband and daughter normally come but on some occasions on my own.they left at 1230pm so nobody to 'guard' my stuff.i was warned and heard a few stories before i started showing but didn't think it would be so bad :( like i say majority of people lovely but those other few go out of their way to make you feel unwelcome, its a shame because from what i have seen could do with attracting new people to the shows.

Wow, I think that's really rude, both the comments and moving your stuff! I used to get the odd rude comment when I started, probably because like you I had a good dog and people were jealous. But I don't think I've ever had anyone move my crate or spill stuff on it in the 10 years I've been showing. I do get people who don't seem to realise that I might need to get my dogs in or out and set up too close, but they usually do move (if sometimes grumpily) when asked. Don't let the few odd rude people put you off, sounds like you have a lovely puppy who deserves to be shown!

this happened to me only the once they moved my cage one small cage and my bags and chair and put me out into the aisle, when i first went back to where i had been i was gobsmacked, i just picked up the ladies chair, bag and removed it and started to drag her cage across the floor she was furious at me i said sorry but i was there you moved me your problem you where late, not mine and do not be so bloody rude in future i put my cage back, people just stood around tutting i was new to the breed but i had no hassle from that day, had the odd comment about me being a puppy farmer came from the same woman put her back in her box when i told her that i consider 3 litters in 27 years not puppy farming but her  10 litters in under 3 years do you really want to go there with me, she has since kept her distance from me, but what she did not know was i showed gsd before i came into small dogs she did notknow me in her breed and thought i was a pushover, there are many nice people in breed showing but also nasty people stand up for yourself and say excuse me did you move my stuff why make it known you are not a push over they will give up and sadly pick on someone else, but do not let some of the nasty ones put you off showing .

and this is exactly why I do not want benching to go from champ shows (we already have dgos in crated being parked all day next to our ring, when the breed has finished/not started, or not even in our ring!) and why I rarely go to Open shows anymore. 

There is no room for the crates to keep more than one dog secure, and hardly room for them to move around the venue if not crated without being stepped on, inadequate flooring in rings etc.

Dog showing just attracts a cross section of the general public, good and bad, friendly and rude.
Wherever you have a gathering of humans you will encounter all aspects of their characteristics.

must admit i love benching at shows, keep my stuff on there, sometimes i may be the only one using the benching if the rings are not near the benching area and that is the only thing i do not like being alone there

I have now decided to keep my support for those champ shows who try to make life easier for the exhibitor by having benching close to rings as far as is possible.

Two major but very old fashioned southern shows will no longer get my entry (unless they have a judge I really really want to shoe under), they still insist on having the benching nowhere near the rings and outside the trade stands, so you have to battle through trade stands and shoppers to get to rings,a nd it is impossible to show more than one dog without help.

Personally I think the best show layout (I show in the south and Midlands) where there is an open field site (so not limited by location of buildings etc) is Southern counties. 

So easy to get from benches to rings, and only a minute to change dogs. 

Easy to get around the show if your doing stakes.

The trade stands make up the perimeter and the benching is in the centre, much better for security too.

Totaly agree that show societies need to think more about exhibitors and dogs when planning their rings and benching. Also I feel that there should be some sort of shaded area or gazebo on very hot days for for dogs and exhibitors to shelter under.
In large classes on an open field in hot sun it is cruel to have dogs and their owners stood for long periods of time while each exhibit is judged.
Also there should be water bowls available in the rings for dogs.
This should also include inside group rings and Crufts. It is inpractical to run in a ring carrying a water bowl and a bottle, but water should always be available for the dogs.

> there should be some sort of shaded area or gazebo on very hot days for for dogs and exhibitors to shelter under.
>

This is basically what the clear span marquees do, that some shows use for benching and for half covered rings.

Water bowls sound a good idea but they could spread disease.  Dogs should be able to go without water for the brief time they are in the ring, and given water on their bench before and after their classes.  Many dogs do not like strange water, and puppies especially can be upset by a sudden change.

I don't know about others but I find this more at open than champ shows, I have two pups coming up one after the other and tend to use the odd open show for practice but honestly it's terrible, peoples manners seem to be getting worse and the space around rings is getting less and less.  Don't know if anyone else did foeshill open but I got in as judging was starting and literally was standing room only with tiny rings.  Stood near one bunch of people and they were so unpleasant in treatment of their own dogs and my stuff that I moved to an even more cramped spot but next to lovely people and happy dogs.

I'm like you brainless, southern counties also my fave, birmingham wasn't bad either but the lighting was poor in the large hangers.  Really can't stand the rings in the middle then stalls then benches outside, as a lone handler when I start taking multiple dogs I am going to have to be very selective for changes.

Anyway to teddypip, you will get familiar with local folks in all breeds that can look after your stuff whilst away, but be prepared for lots of sour grapes if you win well. I guess for your own piece of mind and enjoyment try to limit your shows to the ones your family are happy to stick around. Invest in a DS or iPad if you have too to make they stay. Lol

Half covered rings are a great idea, but not all shows have them, some are just a big roped off field, and in a large class you could be stood in the sun for up to an hour or more.
I was in a Group ring at Crufts in the NEC for nearly two hours !!! Very hot after a long day, and no water for the dogs, my husband was in the audience but I could not see him, but no water available in the ring !!
We are suposed to be dog lovers, so this kind of thing should not happen, arrangements should be made so that bottles of water and a bowl can be taken into the ring !!! Fair enough if the dog does not want a drink, but water in my view is an absolute necessity and should always be available.

For the numericaly larger breeds, that is the point with classes of 20 plus, that is not a brief period in the ring, and what about the group and stakes classes, they can go on for some considerable time.
I just think that shows are more organised for the spectacle  first and foremost it should be more about the comfort of exhibitors and dogs. Just because things have always been run a certain way is not a valid reason for them to continue that way.
Most people in my breed don't use benches now except when they are second in the ring, as they are always too far away from the ring, to get dogs backwards and forwards, I would never leave a dog on a bench on it's own even for a second, so I tend to take only one dog at a time now. That has halved my entry costs, and I know a lot of others who feel the same.

>Don't know if anyone else did foeshill open but I got in as judging was starting and literally was standing room only with tiny rings. 

I was there and totally agree. Even before judging started there was nowhere left to put a crate (there would have been space for half a dozen or so if the selfish people along the back wall had put their chairs in front of their crates instead of beside them). Open shows are dreadful without benching and I certainly would never go to a champ show without it.

Yes I agree under the present format it is difficult, but if you had rings with an area at the side for cages, seating that was undercover and did away with the benching that would be much better. What good is having a bench the otherside of the showground from where the breed is being judged ?
The whole set up at some shows needs a re-think sometimes the set up is quite different for different show societies at the same showground.
If some shows can plan the ground and the available space and manage to have shade, and benches in reasonable proximity to rings, then that proves it is possible.
East of England and the SKC shows are the worst, all squashed up under tents, very crowded, and the benches are too far away from the rings in sheds.
Not a pleasant experience for dogs or handlers.
Also having not before time helps. Open shows that have some groups in the morning and others in the afternoon get my vote, makes a better flow in the carpark and a lot of the dogs have been judged in the morning and gone, leaving space in the afternoon for the later groups, makes for a much better showing experience IMO.

> if you had rings with an area at the side for cages, seating that was undercover and did away with the benching that would be much better. What good is having a bench the otherside of the showground from where the breed is being judged ?
>

You would need much more room for peoples crates than at present is taken up by benching, no one would want their crate cheek by jowl with another exhibitors, so more space would be needed for each dog.  There would be a lot of jockeying for position (as there is now at open shows and some champ shows where people improperly take up ring side space), with the ruthless getting their way and the polite being edged out.

It is quite possible to ensure benches are within easy reach of rings, as some shows do just this, the others really ought to do so too if they want to keep us attending, but to some extent with the UK rationing of CC's they have a bit of a captive audience.

Also if you have large breeds how the hell are you going to be able to transport dogs and large crates to shows, my current car I can just about get a 42 inch crate behind front seats and get dogs in the car. We don't all own transit vans, or primarily dog cars.

> Open shows that have some groups in the morning and others in the afternoon get my vote

Now I have suggested this as an answer to the venue and space issue to some committee members of local shows.

You could then have four rings, 4 groups morning, three and finals afternoon.  It would avoid that interminable wait for groups for the BOB's, waiting for other groups to finish.

I agree with you Dorcas.  I'm another vote for doing away with benching for some breeds unless maybe pre-ordered and excluding Crufts.

  It always seems our breed ring is a mile away from the benching and and 99% of the summer shows, nobody uses the benching in our breed (small breed).

But I can definitely see why medium to larger breeds would want their benching which is why I think it should be optional.

On the 'rude exhibitors' note, I was judging an open show last year and had my family (inc youngish children) with me. When I had finished judging, we were just coming away from the ring for me to have some lunch and experienced the most horrible thing I've experienced in 20 years of showing. 

The breed in the ring after mine was a tall red coated terrier originally from the emerald isle.  My 7 year old child was standing still holding her grandfathers hand when a female exhibitor of aforementioned breed barged past my child swearing at her, referring to her as an 'effing child' and accusing her if ruining her dogs coat. This excuse for a woman was the one who barged my child in a rush to get into the ring, not the other way round and my poor daughter was reduced to tears.

It took a great deal of strength for me not to go mental at her. It was witnessed by the show manager and other exhibitors who were as much in shock as we were.  She'd also caused ruptions earlier that day with another exhibitor. I so wish I'd made a formal KC complaint.

Imagine my joy when we were benched and in the same ring as her and her breed at a champ show the following month. Shock horror we had to suffer her again when merely walking past her. On this occasion I couldn't keep my mouth shut and told her she was a vile woman, all her breed people were stunned ha ha!

IMO she gives her breed and the hobby a bad name and if I hadnt have been a seasoned exhibitor, seeing my sweet child in tears probably would have upset enough to give up showing. 

but what is to be done with the exhibitors who don't use benches at champ shows, and camp out ringside with their dogs in crates, which often means those breeds in that ring cannot get close to the ring, use what shade and space is available.

We have had this at both Windsor and Richmond where as you say benches are miles away from the rings which means you have to bring all your dogs with you (and hope you can find someone to hold the leads of the dogs not in the ring), only to find the only shade taken up by encampments of dogs who aren't even in that ring (or perhaps were in earlier/due in later).

Both this year and last year we did have part covered rings art Windsor, only problem was adjoining large hound breed with big entry had taken up all the shady side of our ring and we baked out in the sun. 

This year I missed the mixed Veteran class (after paying £26 CC entry), as I could not hear the steward and didn't realise it was scheduled as first class (not between the sexes). 

but what is to be done with the exhibitors who don't use benches at champ shows, and camp out ringside with their dogs in crates, which often means those breeds in that ring cannot get close to the ring, use what shade and space is available.

So agree with your above comment Brainless. Have had the situation when a whole load of people invaded the ring side with a waggon train of trolleys, grooming tables, and proceeded to set up while our breed was still being judged in the ring. Trying to get a large breed gundog through to the ring was like an " Its a knockout chalenge " If anyone else is old enough to remember that programme.
When I first started showing, most dogs walked into the venue, people did not bring as much stuff with them, I have seen some with not one, but two grooming tables, which they leave set up for hours on end.
I have always done most of my trimming and grooming at home, so that all that was needed with a brush through before they go in the ring.
In some breeds, they do a full clip and leave all the hair on the floor !!

We refused to go in the ring and have had to ask the show management to clear the ringside of a middle ring in a block of six one Richmond show, as we simply couldn't get near the ring, and the breed in question were not even in that ring.  Even when the breed are in first they then won't move the crates and dogs when it's our turn.

Yes I would like to keep to only bringing the dogs and a show bag (even that is full fo stuff that lives in it and I could do without).

For a start the dogs benefit  from the excersise to loosen and warm up tight muscles from travelling in a cramped space, being able to have a pee and poo.

Yes if it is wet and muddy and you have a groomed breed, or a white one then some protection is useful, but there are those who don't bring a caravan too a show and either suit and boot the dogs or just the boots, so it can be done with minimum equipment.

I well remember gettign a lift with a toy exhibitor to Ruichmone.  I was taking two  dogs with me, who stayed on the floor of the estate car, behidn front seats.  I ahd jsut a shwo bag.  Teh whoel rear of the car was taken up with a huge trolley, with seperate wheels and a varikennel complete with one tiny Min Pin!!! 

Now surely that dog only needed a shammy to clean it up, a collar and lead and could be carried uner an arm if needs be.  No they first had to assemble the trolley, load the crate, then struggle over the rough ground with it.

I do think for toy breeds they should provide the kind of benching used at Rabbit, Poultry (and I assume cat shows) that are actually cages and partions that collpse concertina fashion.  I suspect not providing 'Toy Cages' has actually fuelled this 'must bring the kitchen sink to a show' business.

Oh yes have ahd the dogs chasing clumps of grooming waste, though sad to say some of ours if being brushed withotu care can have a fair bit fly, and land later (always tie a po bzag to the bench for the hair from my brush and combs, and one in my pocket should I need to comb out the odd tuft ringside).

I'm sorry groomed breeds seem to be causing concern, but I own one and though it would be nice to put boots on her (and I have tried with vet wrap) it often completely depletes the volume I've spent an hour that morning creating, so isn't really an option. If the ground is dry my dog walks and I pull along the table with my chair, fabric crate, grooming kit, and handbag, or she's tucked under my arm, or in the crate on the table. I also bring a cloth for any debris or chalk powder used, and if my bitch is carried or wheeled in she has to have a good walk about before showing or she is a little...shall we say, madam! I do see others bringing a LOT of stuff but if it's necessary for their breed I don't see why not. I don't begrudge benching even if I have no use for it because I usually set up ringside or in grooming areas.

> because I usually set up ringside or in grooming areas.

but this is the point it is against the rules to have crates ringside, dogs are supposed to be on benches, and crates and grooming tables in the areas set aside for this, not at ringside where they cause issues.

The only dogs at ringside if benching is a step or two from the ring are those about to be judged, or sadly if benching is a route march away they all have to be ringside.

> could do with attracting new people to the shows

I've been following this thread with interest, as have been considering showing my pup, having never shown anything before.  I've been to a couple of local open shows to get a feel for the process, and was quite surprised at how shambolic and shabby it all seemed - the dogs of course were lovely, but there was limited accommodation for the dogs waiting to be shown, the aisles between the rings were narrow and sometimes blocked with dogs being groomed (why no dedicated grooming area? an earlier thread also commented on extensive grooming being carried out at a show). It was necessary to walk carefully in the congested spaces to avoid treading on the smaller dogs, even where the toys had a slightly separated area. 

If one has to add in bad manners and inconsiderate behaviour of other exhibitors, and even possibly risk of harm to one's own dog/s, it becomes rather an unappealing prospect to someone like me who has no need to show, having no plans to breed, especially with a breed like mine which needs a fair amount of coat preparation for showing.  There are plenty of other activities to do with my dogs, which don't require that degree of grooming.

Merrypaws,
I don't know what shows you've been to buy guessing open shows? They can be a bit like this for sure, Ch shows, most of them are a lot better..

One question I have and it's asking of people who do show heavily coated dogs why do some exhibitors do all their grooming at a show, the extent that some Newfs and beardies go through is immense, surely they dont end up this pickle overnight? All the scissoring too, do your dogs coats really grow that much overnight? I'm not talking about the odd stray hair here but extensive cutting and brushing... This time and space around the rings is IMO selfish!!! There is sufficient space in the benching areas for this when exhibitors show outside.... I for one wish for a grooming tent to be put up as all the fur blowing about is not good, people fail to clean up after themselves too....

I have a short and long coated dog and the long coated dog has the main grooming session at home and at most a quick brush through before he enters the ring!!!  Neither breed essentially are crated around the ring, they are either benched or sat with owner around ring... I had trouble walking through to my ring at one show without a number of breeds all crated ringside going mad at my girl walking past, she didn't react but had her ears pinned back, clearly not liking it...
I think if they are going to allow crated dogs ringside then you either need to dedicate this soley to them or you reserve spaces dedicated.... Or maybe not it's just a thought running through my head ;-)

> There are plenty of other activities to do with my dogs, which don't require that degree of grooming.

Thankfully there are plenty of breeds that don't require that level of grooming, like mien if given a good grooming at home a comb and brush through and your ready LOL

> was quite surprised at how shambolic and shabby it all seemed

It is isn't it, not the swanky passtime and moneyed events people think dogs shows are.  Prize money what prize money

This is the problem with Open shows.  Most people are not prepared to pay more than around £5 for entering their dog in it's first class at an Open show. 

Societies expecting say an entry of 200 - 400 dogs are only taking £1000 - £2000 in entry money.  Most of these venues are charging well over £1000 for use, and then there are all the other costs. 

Even if they could afford it there simply are not the venues available for the price societies can afford, that will allow dog events. 

In the UK a show must provide wet weather accommodation, so unlike some overseas shows where people show in Rain and snow, we have to have some form of undercover judging areas.

> I think if they are going to allow crated dogs ringside then you either need to dedicate this soley to them or you reserve spaces dedicated....

Dogs are not allowed crated ringside (at any show) the people who do this are breaking the rules,

Crates and trolleys are supposed to be in an area set aside for this and grooming is supposed to be done in designated grooming areas.

If they got rid of benching at shows (which is what many of these very people not using them now advocate) this situation would be even worse. 

I have seen show officials trying to get people to move grooming tables and get sworn at and ignored.  Personally they should be banned from entering the next show if they don't abide by the rules.

The shambolic effect would then be at the championship shows.  Must admit that was the effect for me at the few overseas shows I have attended where benching is provided on a grab one where you can basis or not at all.

The worst show I've been to is Boston which is all inside in a cramped space, vowed never to attend that ground again, the amount of dogs being crated in the gangways was ludicrous!!

The summer shows where you have in and out rings and the benching is elsewhere, like Richmond was this is where they appeared to have extra wide gangways for the crates, I seem to recall some signs up for crates to be allowed in certain places, or maybe I dreamt that?

People don't want dogs left on benches for many reasons esp security and safety which I can see their point esp of they want to watch the judgin too, there must be a happy medium somewhere...
Agree that if there are rules and they are being broken and if asked to move like you've seen and the response was less than favourable then there should be consequences, like leaving dogs in vehicles on a hot day!!!!

I have a coated breed and do most of my grooming at home. Well a good wash and blow dry and good brush out. At a show they get a quick brush through. I find it is getting to silly state with the amount of clipping cutting spraying fluffing etc that goes on with some breeds. I was at a meeting at Stonleigh one day and poodles were being shown in the big hall. I walked throught to get some food and could not believe the amount of people with huge set ups grooming tables, cages, clippers running, scissors going hair flying all over the place. Surely you should do all this at home? By the end of the day the halls looked like an explosion in a fur factory! and the owners just walked away and left it!
Even in my wash and wear breed (Well used to be!) people are trimming coats. The standard calls for a "soft and silky,with bright natural sheen, long and slighty wavy, but should not curl when mature" we do not have a trimmed breed but so many now are like a cardboard cut out. The coats are brushed and blow dried till not a wave is left and the coat stands off like that of a Chow Chow. I see some people spraying brushing trimming and fluffing up coats till the dog looks like it has just stepped out of a tumble dryer!
I vist shows were cages and tables are set up anywhere and some people are very rude if you try to get by, dogs standing on tables/cages snap and bark, fur flies all around, gangways are cluttered. Rings are often used for more than one breed and we are usually first in but the times I have arrived at my ring to find covered cages with "second in" breeds stacked around the ring side owners off shopping! On more then one occasion I have had dogs in covered cages barking all day! Even, when 2 are caged together ..fighting..no owners in sight. No room to get near the ring to view. Then as we get to the end and want to watch BOB etc,, the owners of the "Next" breed come out of the woodwork, the dogs come out, the space is cramped, brushes tools etc.. brushing grooming fur flying.
Really it should be taking 10 mins max to finally prepare your dog for the ring. If it takes an hour while at a show to get your dog ready then you have not done the job properly at home.
Manners have sadly become extinct with many people, the big "I AM " has taken over.
I have not met with nasty people in my breed though I am sure they exsit, but I tend to keep my council and not talk behind others backs. Even as a newcomer when Merlot was winning so well I had nothing but friendy attitudes towards me. Now I am deeply involved in my breed I try to be nice to everyone and have time to chat to the newcomers. Even those whose showing/breeding practices I do not like will never find me being rude to them. Polite and considerate was the way my parents taught me to behave and I hope thats what I do, pity not everyone is the same.
Aileen

Aileen - I want a 'like' button for your post :-)

I'm going to whisper here ;-) . Have you noticed that the people with the smallest dogs always have the most stuff?

We showed our Swedish Lapphund which is a fairly heavily coated breed but managed with bath and groom day before show, one small bag containing brush, comb, scissors in case of an emergency :-), lead, treats, poo bags and wipes. Dog walked in and out on lead and stayed with us all day ( I know this isn't easy if you are on your own or with more than one dog). We also showed our Bernese - same story - bath and groom then the wee bag of stuff went with us. Now, after a few years break we are showing our PBGV and I seem to have gained a cage with a grooming top but we still take the same wee bag (it is the end bit off the pedigree best of breed bag - remember them? - that was the only useful thing our Swedish lapphund won :-) ) with the addition of some chalk cause she is mostly white.

I watch people struggling into shows with multiple cages strapped to trolleys, chairs, picnic bags, grooming tables, tents/windbreaks, huge bags of grooming 'stuff' that has probably not left the bag for 10 years and I do wonder how on earth they can be bothered.  They then bring in a giant pack of (whisper it) wee dogs which proceed to yelp and snap at everything within 10 feet. I realise that is a complete generalisation so don't be offended - but we've all seen it :-) :-)

It does astonish me when there is limited room and people insist on bringing every bit of paraphenalia with them. Would it really be so hard to arrange to share a grooming table with someone, clear out your grooming bag so only the essentials are in it and maybe make your dogs share a cage for a wee while? Might help a bit with the manners too if you had to actually communicate with others to share the table :-D

I suspect not providing 'Toy Cages' has actually fuelled this 'must bring the kitchen sink to a show' business.

Cages available on the benches would make no difference. How do you carry 2 or 3 small hairy mainly white dogs together with your show bag and chair to the benches from the car or van, when the grass is knee high and wet and there is mud everywhere, such as for instance was the case in the car park for Darlington this year? You might as well go home straight away as the dogs' preparation would be totally ruined...... It's very easy to think that you can let all dogs walk to the benches from the car park, and I myself used to moan a lot about all those toy exhibitors who didn't know their dogs had legs -until I started showing them myself, and realised just why it isn't possible to walk them UNLESS you have a dry day with dry ground. (At Darlington the show ground was dry with short grass, the car park was the problem.) When we do get a day like that I walk mine, but if it is wet -I'm not going to waste my entry fee showing dogs that are filthy. You can't get a mainly white dog clean enough, whereas one of my big brown ones with brown legs -mud hardly even shows up.

nd maybe make your dogs share a cage for a wee while?

Mm, I did that at one champshow this year -result the bitch was sick all over the dog!!! Never again.

The advantage of trolleys is that you use the top as a grooming table so don't need both.

>How do you carry 2 or 3 small hairy mainly white dogs together with your show bag and chair to the benches from the car or van, when the grass is knee high and wet and there is mud everywhere, such as for instance was the case in the car park for Darlington this year?

A showbag can be a backpack (two hands free still) and chairs are an optional extra (unless you're disabled of course) so you can carry a dog under each arm. :-)

A showbag can be a backpack (two hands free still) and chairs are an optional extra (unless you're disabled of course) so you can carry a dog under each arm. :-)

Chairs are most definitely not an optional extra -there is no way on earth I can stand up for several hours, I can't even manage a few minutes. And I did say 2 or 3 -where do I put the third dog LOL.

I think this is a subject where NOBODY who HASN'T shown a small longcoated white or mainly white toy can understand. It is MUCH harder than bigger breeds with shorter coats. The problems start already at home -what do you do if it rains the night before? If you let the dogs out for a wee they come back in dirty! What if it is wet outside the morning of the show? It's shampoo spray and hairdryer the minute before you set off.

Excellent post by Gold Mali who put it much more eloquently than me.

I set up ringside at Open shows Brainless, at Champs I use grooming areas set out.

Although my gils are BIG and BLACK they have white feet so I can feel your pain LOL...
Unfortunatly I could not carry them ! or wheel a trolly with 16 stone of dog in to a muddy showground so in reality my job of keeping them clean is harder than yours. They need boots and mudgaurds !! Just the effort of trying to put 8 boots on while keeping 2 excited dogs in the car before I even think about all over coats to keep tummies and bibs dry and white. I would give up wet shows, not a good idea in the UK as 99% seem to be wet and muddy!
Aileen

I hope you mean you set up near the ring against the walls not ringside, as that is against the rules.  Ringsides are for people to watch the judging, and for exhibitors to access rings.

As for champ shows you either keep the dog with you (but leave it's crate grooming table in the area provided), or accept that they are either benched or in the grooming areas provided, so you won't be able to stay with them constantly, unles you bring omeone specificially to sit with the dogs.

The shows that seem to make no effort to have benching adjacent to rings are still laying their shows out the way they did years ago when many of the dogs and owners were not so joined at the hip (or so into pristine presentation) as now, and perhaps security of the dogs was not so much of an issue.

I shall not attend Windsor or Richmond again (even though I live in the South West) unless there is a really special judge, or they put benching adjacent to rings.

Shows wanting to keep and attract exhibitors have to balance varying needs, but there is no excuse for rule breaking and making other exhibitors day unpleasant or awkward, by selfishly blocking ringside space.

Often there is no wall to set up against as many of the shows are outside, or in farm sheds, so it really depends. Not all set ups are the same, but I never set up against the piece of rope that's lining the ring if that's what you mean. Usually just nearby, but still close enough to watch the judging so I know when to prep. I set up nearby because usually the ground is wet and if I've spent hours prepping I'm not going to dredge her through grass to get to the ring, and carrying her is a pain which also mucks up her coat prep.
Champ shows are harder but normally if my mum or hubby are there I can leave my bitch with them and go and watch some judging, then go and prep, then she either stays out with me or is put away for rest if she's been out for a couple of hours. I'm very very fortunate that she's so well behaved in those situations and in her crate she's silent. If there's a grooming area I always set up there, at EOE this was great as it was ringside, but at Birmingham City it was right beside benches though thankfully the ground was dry concrete.

Sorry, did I say I'd blocked ringside space? Or that I'd set up ringside? Because I can promise you I've never, ever blocked space from other people at a show and I've been to many this year. Most of the open shows I go to are outdoors and there is no where to set up but where you fancy. Naturally for me this is near the ring. I hope that clears that up for you.

Glad you made that clearer as you did say, quote: "I set up ringside"

Must admit I go to very few open shows these days, and that in the winter when there are no champ shows, so mostly indoors, and of course if it rains everyone has to use the cramped wet weather accommodation.

East of England even with it not raining (but waterlogged) with much benching abandoned was a nightmare in the main hall, and not the kind of free for all I would relish as the norm.  Wet and muddy but thankfully we still had our benches and flooded ring close by, which we opted to use rather than the postage stamp we might have eventually have got indoors.  Though trying to go into my expensively entered stakes classes was beyond logistics.

Sorry, my mistake!

Yes EOE was a nightmare, we were very lucky and got there on the second day at about 7am so got choice spot beside our ring in the grooming area. Barely worth getting the numbers through the swimming pool that was our previous ring!

I go to lots of opens but not so much now because it's getting colder, but even in the 'Summer' months it was still a bit chilly.

East of England was even more of a nigthmare for us. 

Neither me or hubby are into sport and didn't realise our Sat navs chosen route would take us into the middle of Silverstone during the British Grand Prix, where we were marooned for ages trying to get out of the Car parks to carry on our journey. 

Needless to say we came home via the Fosseway.

> By the end of the day the halls looked like an explosion in a fur factory! and the owners just walked away and left it!

You could remake a couple of dogs from the coat left lying around sometimes couldn't you!  At one winter show I genuinely thought it had started snowing when an open door brought a gust of white fur to land on us.