I have a 10 year old lab who is on Glucosamin and has been for many years now for his joints as his back legs and hips are not great...  Im not sure wether it is just age or if he is in pain now as he seems to groan / grumble a lot.  When he is out he is fine, he doesnt walk far or fast but no complaints, its just when hes back in the house he grumbles.  The muscle in his back legs is wearing away and he has a fatty lump on the top of one of his legs / hip...  Due to his age I dont want to start him on permanent medication and I have heard horror stories regarding Rimadyl and the likes.. Alternatively I know I cant give him paracetomol... Has anyone any suggestions or success stories??

Regards in advance

I think you are at the stage where you must discuss his pain relief with your vet.  If you tell him of your concerns I am sure he will take that into consideration.

My 14 year old Bearded Collie is on Glucosamine with Chondroitin.  I think you will improve things if you combine the 2.  Optimum mix being 500gm Glucosamine - 400gm Chondroitin.   Dose for a Lab would be 3 a day.  My girl doesn't walk far or fast either.  Bless her.  I do sometimes give her Metacam for inflammation.

All dogs respond differently to medications, I am aware of the potential risks with drugs but at the same time, I've had 5 dogs now on NSAIDs (rimadyl etc) and never had a problem with any of them.  Soli was on Trocoxil for 3 years without the slightest bit of trouble.

Your vet should do a general blood test to check everything's ok before starting him on anything anyway, to minimse risk but if he's struggling I'd want him on something now.  Supplements can only do so much, some dogs don't get any benefit from them at all.

If you are very concerned though you can try a natural anti-inflammatory to start with - devil's claw or turmeric.  Both work in a similar way to the NSAIDs and can be extremely effective on some dogs.  Turmeric turned my 12yr old, who was almost crippled with untreated osteoarthritis when I got her (untreated for 2 years at that point), into a youngster overnight, she was bounding around fields the second day she was on it!

Osteoarthritis is more painful when you stop activity and then try getting going again so that may be why your dog is grumbling around the house.

Don't be too quick to write off NSAIDs; they can be lifesavers by making animals' lives painfree. My old boy tolerates Rimadyl very well, but Previcox (which most dogs have no trouble with) gives him D&V very badly; stopping the meds immediately cures that problem. I would certainly try with conventional anti-inflammatories like Rimadyl and see how he gets on with them. The chances are that he'll be fine. :-) Pain reduction improves an animal's quality of life immensely.

My dog was on Rimadyl pain relief for hip dicplacier,
I cought a bio tech collar and never looked back. She is on no medication and  now 3 years on she is still fine :)
http://www.ecomagnets.com/bioflow-dogcollar.htm
Lea :)

I second that it should be Glucosamine with Chondroitin. If it was me though, I'd reason the opposite way as regards Rimadyl. Due to the age I'd say there is nothing to lose, as most dogs are fine on it for a few years -be a different story if it was a young dog that faced a lifetime on it. I had a Golden with very severe HD that at first was on Rimadyl and it worked well, but after a couple of years it stopped working completely , and that was when I put him on G&C which worked wonders, to the extent that without he had not been able to use his hindlegs, with it he could go for walks again and had a normal life until 13 when he collapsed one day and just couldn't go on any longer.

There are a lot of horror stories about Rimadyl on the internet, but that's true of ANY drug. Not many people will scream about how good something is, all over the internet, but if something goes wrong, they do -it's just human nature. If a dog is going to have a bad reaction to Rimadyl it happens fairly quickly and will include sickness, diarrhoea and similar and then you have to stop it immediately. Those cases however are rare in comparison to how many animals are on it.

My oldest lab had very bad (hip scored at 2 so definite)  HD etc. She had previcox off and one (when appeared nec.) from 8 previcox regularly from around 10 1/2 and trocoxil for about 18 months before she was PTS at 12 last january. She never had the slightest hint of a problem from the NSAIDs

Personally I would talk to the vet and probably try a couple of weeks on whatever NSAID they recommend and see if there is any difference in your dog. A short course should be virtually risk free and you can take it from there. At 10 I agree with GoldMali, an ideal time to start as it's only going to be for his last few years and I (again, imo) would rather put quality of life ahead of quantity. Dogs are very bad a showing pain, they're so stoical and will accept a continual ache as normal where a person would complain like stink! They have no concept that showing pain will make it go away so just plod on.

Also, at the end my lab had Tramadol as well, I think it is codeine based (humans take it too) It is a pretty powerful painkiller but doesn't have the anti-inflammatory benefits of the NSAIDS, but it may be an alternative if dogs cant tolerate the other drugs.

Good Luck, I know it's hard seeing them getting older and frailer, all we can do is make sure their declining years are as pleasant as possible.
xx

Quality of life is far more important than length and there is really no reason to write off using anti inflammatory drugs or pain killers. Over the years many of my dogs have been on one or the other, or both, the dog I have just lost was on Rimadol and Tramadol since he was nine and he was PTS just short of 15 years in perfect health but having lost the use of his legs. The drugs gave him at least 5 years of pain free life that he would not have enjoyed had I not given enough drugs to keep the pain at bay.

I use a combination of things,nice warm coat if the weather is very cold when out on daily walks,bioflow collar,and rhumacam if vet prescribes this,also hydrotherpy if needed,my elderly lab was comfortable and all these helped her live a good quality of life.
Remember though alot of labs have delicate tummys but all mine have tolorated rhumacam or metacam.

Sheila

> Due to the age I'd say there is nothing to lose, as most dogs are fine on it for a few years

That's what I think :) Bramble is managing fine on G&C and fish oils ATM, but I will get him on Rimadyl if he starts to show any pain and at his age that will be the last thing we will try .... He had Rimadyl about 5/6 years ago when he hurt a rear leg/hip and he was fine on it, although we cut it down/out as soon as we could.

Glucosamine HCL is more effective than Glucosamine sulphate. If buying a human form, make sure it is safe for animals and if your vet does prescribe any medications, make them aware of the suppliment you are using. Some glucosamine/joint suppliments contains things like white willow bark that has contra-indications for individuals on NSAIDs.

Cod liver oil is another suppliment that can help.

My dog has glucosamine & cod liver oil daily. He's got arthritic elbows, he was diagnosed with elbow displasia as a puppy, so throughout his life, it's been a juggling act of getting the right balance of excersise (he's 5 & half yrs old now) and keeping his weigth down.

A couple of things of of the upmost importance re. arthiritis/mobility problems:

Weight control - keep them lean.

Excersise - jiggle it around to fit the dog. Your dog may be better off having 2 shorter walks per day instead of one long one for example. Or, if you currently are walking over rough terrain/ lots of hills, a flatter, easier terrain may help take strain off the joints and make him more comfortable.

As for NSAIDs (Rimadly,Metacam etc.), my dog has had them few times, but is not on any at the moment. I hope he doesn't need long-term pain relief for a few years yet, but if he needs it sooner, he'll have it. It's far better for the dog to be pain-free and mobile than in pain, depressed and crippled. And there are other forms of pain relief that are not NSAIDs, so defiantely worth seeing the vet to discuss possibilities.

> Cod liver oil is another suppliment that can help.

I thought that there was a query about Cod Liver Oil and overdoses/buildup of Vitamin A ?? I stopped giving it to mine years ago and switched to fish oils - can't remember the exact problem ?

> I thought that there was a query about Cod Liver Oil and overdoses/buildup of Vitamin A

I started giving cod-liver oil capsules, on recomendation of the vet, I've not heard of vit A problems with it (untill now, I'll go and have a little google!)

ETA - oh, actually, I think I remember this coming up before on CD and the general thing was that the ammount of oil needed to cause a problem was something like a daily cupfull???

Another excellent product is the Back On Track Mesh Rugs.  The inside of the coat has a ceramic thread which is woven into the material and reflects body heat back into the body as a FAR Infrared wave which helps to improve circulation and reduce inflammation, helping to improve your dogs comfort and mobility levels.

My lab is 7 1/2 this year and had HD. Last winter he started to struggle with stiffness and pain, he was given Rimadyl over the winter period and then weaned off it, he has had no bother at all through he summer months but we noticed yesterday he was wimpering a bit and looks stiff again so he will go to the vet this week to get it again for the winter. He is also on Glucosamine with Chondroitin.

Massage can help a lot as it gets the blood flowing to all the aching areas. I'm sure your vet can advise how to do it. My dog loves it, it's become an evening habit and he finds it so relaxing and I just sit there with him watching tv as I do it !. Better still it's a great way to spend lovely quality time - and it's free !.