Hello

I am after some advice on the different type of haltis and which to go for,i have been using a halti on my newfoundland along with kind training and he is walking fab,well,that is until he meets another dog,one hard shake of those saggy slobber chops and the halti is off his face and im on the floor,so,is there another one,ie gencon,canny,gentle leader and what do you recomend

cheers

Personally, i love the Gencon having tried most of the rest :)

For my old lab I used a harness type thing. It's not on their face, so it doesn t come off. It was great for when we went on very exciting walks where she had to stay on the lead. I know in an ideal world they should be taught not to pull, but whose world is ideal? I shall be using it again for my new girl when she's a bit bigger.

I've had no success at all with any type of harness on big dogs and used to use a halti but have walked a friends dog (Bernese) who wears a Dogmatic and it works very well.

I would also recommend a dogmatic. As well as using dogmatics with my dogs, I use one when walking my friend's mastiff who is a very badly trained 70kg mastiff who tends to lunge at people and other dogs and cats and pretty much anything that moves. With a dogmatic he is like a lamb for me! He has never managed to get it off or wriggle out even though he spends half of his time on a walk trying to rub it off.

I have one from phoenix dog training made to measure and fleece lined. The other thing I like is that when dog isnt pulling it relaxes which some I find dont. Therefore it rewards the dog for not pulling by becoming loose if that makes sense. Have tried loads of others and also on some of my dogs have liked the dogmatic and gen con best. Some just ride up int otheir eyes in particular with long nosed breeds
Current fcr just doesnt like anything around her face at all so looking at more training  and balance harness

Dogmatic gets a vote from me - the only headcollar not to tighten around the dog's muzzle when it pulls, yet you still get all the same control without that aversive function.

i agree,treacle-whose world is ideal!Ive been made to feel bad for using headcollars on my 3,But I really have had no success at teaching loose lead walking-one at a time,yes,and lovely heelwork in class,but together?Nope! I tried haltis,but found them a bit faffy to put on,then a lovely person on here reccomended the dajan headcollar,and im using them,they are simple,well made,washable-and work!I use a halti link with them for safety.

I'm not a fan of dogmatics, I prefer Gentle Leaders and they also do not tighten around the dog's face.  The fit is set when you put it on by the 'brake' thingy under the jaw, that fixes the size of the nose loop so it cannot change.  They don't ride up as much as haltis and there's less webbing underneath unlike dogmatics (which is what I don't like, some dogs don't like the feel of it).

I prefer harnesses over headcollars though, I use either normal walking harnesses or those with front rings on.  They take the force out of the pull and give me contol - Linc wears one and the difference between having the lead on the back ring vs. the front is huge.  As it feels different to the dog you can teach them the idea that when the lead is on the front they don't pull and when it's on the back they can (if you are keeping them on lead I mean).

Works for me - I regularly walk four large dogs together (Linc, paige, Raine and Phoebe totalling 103kg) and I have control over them.

Dogmatic definately, used them for 4 years approx on two aussies males no problem with control if necessary around other dogs. Seen them used on Newfi's at shows.

I use a Gentle Leader Easywalk harness on Nando and it is great. I originally just bought it for my Mum and also when I am walking him with his 'friends' as he just wants to play! It is like having an almost weightless dog on the other end of the lead. He is a big GSD.. however if I were to close my eyes I would swear there was a westie or similar size dog on the end!

> Ive been made to feel bad for using headcollars on my 3,

That's awful use what tools work for you to achieve the aim, in this instance being able to walk your dogs without the stress.

> I really have had no success at teaching loose lead walking-one at a time,yes
> but together?Nope!

I walk six collie size (but stockier) dogs with these headcollars, they suit their head shapes, allow me to give them the full length of the lead and still have control, enjoy walks as walks, not having to use them to train all the time.

I have, and can walk them without, but it is more pleasant and I have more control, with, and my back and shoulders thank me.

For those for whom the daily walks are about exercise and relaxation (those who do not have enclosed/safe land or large gardens, as an alternative just for that), the time factor for all separate 'training' walks (limiting each dogs exercise), it makes sense.

Also headcollars are a boon for the less strong or physically able to be able to control the dogs before training has reached an acceptable level, or just in case for times when training may fail, such as the local foxes just sitting there :) just out of reach!

Thank you for that brainless. I know what pamcollie means about feeling guilty using a headcollar I use one on my gsd but have been made to feel I have failed with his training by  some. Trouble is without it he has pulled me into an on coming car trying to meet another dog and he has he foibles about things and headcollar is the nly way I can guarantee control

Just out of interest, have any of you tried to stop using the headcollar after a year or so? Only I've found with several of my dogs that once you've used it for a year or two, if you take it off they have then learnt to walk nicely and never need it again.  Most of mine have used it until 18 months-2 years of age, then I take it off and it's no longer needed. Nice and easy, no training involved.

many many thanks for replying,lots to think about,peronally i have tried all the easy walk or halti harnessess and cant get on with them,when he goes he goes and i dont stand a chance,he is usually very very good,but its also peace of mind that if i have a secial head collar on then i know if something spooks him etc i will still be on 2 feet not face first in the gravel.The canny looks nice,but,i am not sure if its sutible as i feel he could prob pull me on that by sticking his head down,i do like the look of the dogmatic and there does seem to be alot of newfs in that one so thanks alot x

Yes I do find they are good without one on, after wearing them for somr time, but after a while the goodness slips ;)

> he is usually very very good,but its also peace of mind that if i have a secial head collar on then i know if something spooks him etc i will still be on 2 feet not face first in the gravel

I know what you mean. Buster (90kg) is fab on the lead 99.9% of the time, but if he does pull, I haven't got much of a chance of stopping him on a collar, so I use a halti in ADDITION to his collar - a lead on both. His collar has his 'main' lead attached - a 1"wide leather one, and the halti has a thin, cheap (cotton?) lead.
The halti is there for emergencies and also to steer his head around if he tries to sniff towards any passing person - (can't risk him flinging a slinger around somebodies leg!).
I hold both the leads in the same hand, with the halti lead slacker than the main lead, so for any minor pulling (eg. him reaching away to sniff a tree) the halti is not in use. If he is meeting another dog, or we are being mobbed by a group of kids, I'll take up the slack on the halti so it's in use too.

that makes me smile mastifflover,my stan has been hard work due to my softness love and lack of experiance,he has dragged me into old dears gardens to pee on their water fountain,in the back of a vw transporter van,into the local chip shop,off my feet many a time,loads of training stopped it,but there are still times when he gets excited and even that is enough to have me over as im weak and have back issues,i think i didnt walk him for over a year (hubby did)as it was a battle but now enjoying walkies,i just like the safety net of a halti,he is never on a long lead etc,but the halti does come off easily,hoping my next one will stay on and im going to try the dogmatic for him,i kne,w i would get there in the end but its been hard work,i know that when i get my next newfie whee i went wrong with stan,but he has sooo improved im so proud of him now,when he was pulling i felt so ashamed,like i had let him down,i didnt want people who didnt know stan to think he was out of control etc
walking a pug is a dodle lol often have to check he is still on the end of his harness
jo

mastifflover,where do you get busters collars,i cant seem to get a nice soft one for stan in his size,he needs a 32 neck and dont know where to look for xxl large dog collars
jo

Have you tried a Canac Gentle leader?  this has a clip to lock it under the chin so less easy to get off or to ride up.  The webbing has soft edges too.  It is the preferred one sold at our local training club of the highstreet/petshop commercially available ones.

> mastifflover,where do you get busters collars

I got him a matching lead & collar - black leather with brass fittings, when he was 9 months old (4 & half years ago - wow time flies!). I'm a memeber on a breed-specific forum & found the collar & lead via a link that was recomened on there. I've just been to check and the link is gone :(

I can't remeber what the company was called, but they handmade the collars & leads thierselfs, to order. It cost about £65 for the set. The collar was adjustable so he's worn it for the last 4 & half years, I've just adjusted it as he's grown.  The company came highly recomeneded for making quality products that will take the pulling of a mastiff, I'm so annoyed that I can't remember who they were.

Defiantely worth starting another thread to get some recomendations. I think there is a member here that works with leather.

Lol - meeeeeee I do.

I quite like the simple figure 8  headcollars on some dogs - it tends to suit the longer noses better, and the ones I use I made myself so they have a slim stopper on both sides of the sliding ring so can only tighten a certain distance.

In any case I use them in conjunction with another lead to a harness or flat collar (depending on the dog and what I am doing), with the headcollar lead a lighter weight (six foot ferret leads, come in awesome colours and really thin yet strong enough) than the main lead, so that if a dog should lunge suddenly they won't hit the headcollar first.

thankyou,barbara,i must say,walks are so much less stressful with the headcollars,and my poor arms have stopped aching!Several of our walks involve quite a bit of pavement walking to get there,i can now enjoy that part of the walk ,too.Id be interested,as Goldmali,says,to see if they naturally walk nicely,in a year or two,without them.

nikita,i bought a couple of front ring harnesses to try,but i havent used them yet,because when i tried it on one,the front strap seemed very near the front legs,and i was worried it might rub,have you found that?

Depends on the design.  The halti harness is a sod at times for moving around, riding up, and I think has a huge potential for rubbing a dog.  But if the design is sturdy enough it should be ok - they should be used with a double lead anyway so the back connection can help keep the harness straight.

Linc's one can be used only on the front ring (was my intention, as I can't do more than one dog properly on double leads and I walk 3/4 at a time) but I've made it so it doesn't ride up and moves level, so no rubbing.

thanks!these are easywalk harnesses,there is just the one"d"ring at the front,on a loop of webbing-its possible i didnt alter it to fit right!

Has anyone any experience of the mekuti harness or perfect balance as against genlte leader harness

It's important the Gentle LEader is fitted correctly to work well.  There is a video showing how to fit it here:

http://youtu.be/KxfMiC-B6tk

I have used K9 Dog Bridles and find them 'kinder' than Haltis.They do not pull the head to the side or mark the nose.

Sorry Jo but the places Stan has dragged you into has made me giggle !

What did Stan order in the Chippy ?

I need to try some if these suggestions too.  We used haltis over the years and lined them with fleece ourselves :-) BUT my latest 'monkey' doesn't respond well to it and the hair has rubbed off her nose in the process (she's a whiskered breed).

She really is quite unlike any of I've ever had and is just hell bent on pulling like a train.  I've spent months trying to persuade her otherwise but she's determined!

> thanks!these are easywalk harnesses,there is just the one"d"ring at the front,on a loop of webbing-its possible i didnt alter it to fit right!

Sounds silly, but did you put it on the right way up?  Not that I'm sure which way that is these days as they've changed it slightly (moved the buckle I think) but the front ring will be quite a bit lower one way than the other :-)

oh ,thanks,its quite possible!I ll have another try!

BUT my latest 'monkey' doesn't respond well to it

I've got a determined monkey too and have found the Gencon the best by far. In fact I walk two on them and can manage them with relative ease! (I have a back condition and any jarring upsets it badly co need to take care, hence the 'relative' ease)