Hi guys
After lots of deliberation i have decided to import a gsd pup from Germany. The last time i imported from Europe was about 4 years ago and my dog (adult male) had to spend 6 months in quarantine. I know it is much easier now, does anybody know the most up to date rules?

The plan would be to drive to Germany and bring pup home with me, what would be the earliest age i could do this??  Has anybody done it recently and any advice?

Thanks
Lucy x

Here are the current DEFRA rules for importing pets from EU countries.

Your pup would need to be microchipped then vaccinated against rabies at 3 months of age. He could then come into the UK 21 days later.

It's quite easy now and with the DEFRA changes you get the vet to follow the manufacturer's instructions for rabies injection and apparently some allow it at 8 weeks - so they need to be microchipped and rabies vaccinated (as early as 8 weeks) then specific worming by the vet (noted in pet passport) 1-5 days before travelling. 21 days from rabies vaccination you can drive over & pick them up.  I did it in january and my pup had to be 3 months before vaccine, so he came over just before 4 months of age and was no problem, now they can be younger.

From what I've worked out, you should be able to bring pup in at 15wks.  Providing the rabies jab is given at 12wks.

rabies vaccinated (as early as 8 weeks) then specific worming by the vet (noted in pet passport) 1-5 days before travelling. 21 days from rabies vaccination you can drive over & pick them up.

If rabies is given before 12 weeks/3 months a second injection has to be given and the 21 days wait is after the second one, so no time saved at all.

and it's 3 weeks after 3 calender months not 12 weeks.

Couldn't remember for sure hence why I said 12 weeks/3 months so thanks for pointing it out. :)

We had this conversation before, someone arguing that 3 months could be 12 weeks but of course even with a February in the calculation no puppy could be 3 months old at 12 weeks  you would at the very least have 28 days (for Feb) plus 31 days (March) plus 30 days (April), which is 89 days, which is 12 weeks 5 days, but mostly the pup would be 13/13+ weeks old.

depends on the manufacturer's directions.....

Couldn't remember for sure hence why I said 12 weeks/3 months so thanks for pointing it out

Pups no longer have to be 3 months of age, the manufacturer determins the age, which can be as low as 8 weeks (without the need for a second jab)

>Pups no longer have to be 3 months of age, the manufacturer determins the age, which can be as low as 8 weeks (without the need for a second jab)

Penny, where did you find that out/read that?

Also, interested in this 3 months of age thing.  What exactly is 3 months?  I mean, say a pup was born on (random date) 4th April - how do you work out 3 months rather than 12wks?  Do you say 4th July??!  Confused...

PS:  Nobivac says:

"Primary vaccination age*
3 months or older

Booster vaccination
every 3 years

* Primary vaccination may be administered at an earlier age (minimum in dogs and cats of 4 weeks of age), but then a repeat vaccination must be given at the age of 3 months.  "

And when 2 vaccinations are given, it is timed from the date of the second.  So I don't see that this makes any difference - it is still 3 months for the rabies jab, whether it is because of DEFRA or the rabies manufacturers.

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/MSD_Animal_Health/Nobivac_Rabies/-39704.html

Having just looked through several rabies vax, it seems to be the case for all - 12wks minimum. Can do it earlier, but then need to re-vaccinate at 3 months and for DEFRA, 3 months is what goes... because it must be from the 2nd jab if 2 are required. 

its on Defra's information (all trace of '3 months' has been removed... so it's all down to the manufacturers, you may find products available in Europe where the age is much younger than those available here). 

The UK does not allow  dogs, cats and ferrets that have not been vaccinated against rabies to enter the UK. Once they have reached the minimum age for vaccination (as stated on the vaccine manufacturer's datasheet) they must be prepared in accordance with all the requirements explained on these web pages, taking account of the required order of preparation.

What you need to do if you are entering the UK from the EU and listed non-EU countries
Preparing your dog, cat or ferret

    Step 1 - Have your pet microchipped - Before any of the other procedures for pet travel are carried out, your pet must be fitted with a microchip so it can be properly identified.
    Step 2 - Have your pet vaccinated - After the microchip has been fitted your pet must be vaccinated against rabies. There is no exemption to this requirement, even if your pet has a current rabies vaccination. Rabies boosters must be kept up to date. The length of the waiting period before entry to the UK is 21 days after the first vaccination date. A waiting period is not required for subsequent entries into the UK, provided rabies boosters are kept up to date. If the vaccination is in two parts the 21 day wait will be from the date of the second vaccination.

>What exactly is 3 months?  I mean, say a pup was born on (random date) 4th April - how do you work out 3 months rather than 12wks?  Do you say 4th July??!

Yes, just as you do for the age classes at shows. A pup born on 4th April would be 3 months old on 4th July. :-)

Great, thanks. 

Ok, one more question...

Now it is all down to whatever the vaccine manufacturers' rules are, do the border Pet Passport folk on the way into the UK/out of Europe really know what the minimum age is for all rabies vaccinations, and are checking this against what is in the Pet Passport?!

Sadly, no. Recent news item.

nope - but it explains why a lot of pups are coming in from eastern europe with 'valid' pet passports

> If the vaccination is in two parts the 21 day wait will be from the date of the second vaccination.

but it does say after the second vaccination.  Surely a vaccination given early is unlikely to be efficacious due to maternal antibodies, assuming it's mother has been vaccinated for Rabies at some point, which is all dogs in most countries that are not Rabies free, only considered low risk.

It does say http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/travel/pets/pet-owners/#eu though that no animal under 3 months of age can enter the UK, so how can these under age pups (stted to be 8 weeks old) come in legally????

>so how can these under age pups (stted to be 8 weeks old) come in legally????

The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. It's so effing inefficient that a rabies outbreak is only a matter of time.

Great, so yet again responsible people will do this properly and bring their responsibly bred pups over at 15wks whilst puppy farmers bring them in at 8wks. 

I don't understand:  The article says they were not breaking the law - but they were, according to Brainless' link...??   And their age must be stated in their Pet Passports?? 

The law was definitely being broken, but the border staff aren't up to speed with the law.

This is the reason why so many people were lobbying against the change in the law, but were eventually overruled by Brussels. It seems that we need to have rabies in the country to be like mainland Europe.

they can't come in legally at 8 weeks - they have to wait 21 days after vaccination before they can travel....

The dogs in the article were only 8 weeks old, yet were not quarantined, why? 

Even had they been vaccinated at five weeks and then waited 21 days, dogs under three months of age cannot come into the UK.

Quote from above link:
"How to bring your pet dog or cat into or back into the UK under the Pet Travel Scheme.

All pet dogs, cats and ferrets (including guide and hearing dogs) can enter or re-enter the UK from any country in the world without quarantine provided they meet the rules of the scheme, which will be different depending on the country or territory the pet is coming from.

Animals which do not meet all the rules must be licensed into quarantine until they are compliant. They might then be able to obtain early release if they can be shown to comply with the necessary pet travel requirements.

Animals under three months of age are not allowed to enter the UK.

Pet travel within the UK (including the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man) are not subject to movement controls."

It's ridiculous, isn't it? It's quite clear that the border staff don't know the law.

> It's ridiculous, isn't it? It's quite clear that the border staff don't know the law.

Not only that but it would be appear to be very easy to smuggle dogs in without any passport at all. When I recently went to Germany for a show the passport control officer stayed in her booth and handed us the scanner to scan the 5 dogs in the car, there could easily have been another 5 dogs in there without passports - nobody checked, nobody checked to see if there were any animals in the caravan or in the other cars and vans going through.

Do they not realise what's at stake??  Sheesh.  What is the point of having these rules?

the checking is done in France where they are not Rabies free so they don't see the issues we have.

> the checking is done in France where they are not Rabies free so they don't see the issues we have.

That's it in a nutshell. I think we should have checks this side of the border which would hopefully be more efficient.

I never thought of that Brainless.  So it is French officials checking for UK borders?  And the UK are ok with this?  Perhaps the checks should be both sides, much as it pains me to say it.  If they were only at the place of arrival, people and dogs would need to be sent back again - rather than just refused travel. 

I think as with customs at the Tunnel we should have UK officials checking over in France.

Still don't understand why those seized pups aren't being put into Quarantine and their importers fined and have to pay.  That would be more of a deterrent.

Has anyoen made the Dog papers aware, as I have seen nothing.  I'm going to ring Meg Purnell Carpenter and see what she says.  I think Overhill have closed their Quarantine kennels as it was no longer viable even with the origianl Pet travel scheme.

Had words with Overhill (they still do have their Q kennels) and it seems that pups brought in as in the article once trading standards dig deeper they do end up being Quarantined, as they are definitely not allowed into UK before 3 months regardless of when they were vaccinated. 

In this case they would have had to have been Rabies vaccinated at 5 weeks.  No way could you guarantee a vaccination would take this young.

Sadly this is not an isolated incident there are loads of pups coming in from Eastern Europe.

We have Irish puppy farm stock, overseas ones, and out own Welsh/English/Scottish puppy farmed and back yard bred pups.

Yet the show breeder is the cause of all the ills connected with dog breeding, yeah right.