> but in those days people didn't know any better.

Didn't know any better to feed something that enabled their dog to live to the ripe old age of 15? :) 

It's funny how everybody jumped on Pedigree and Eukanuba. Probably all of you feed organic RAW...
Also I would never sell puppy without first vaccination. Never heard in my nearly 20 yrs experience of side effects but seen unvaccined puppies die.

>It's funny how everybody jumped on Pedigree and Eukanuba. Probably all of you feed organic RAW...

If you've read the posts properly you'll see that I said something entirely different. ;-) And your raw assumption is also wrong.

The only time a pup needs to be sold with a first vaccination is if it's been taken from its mother too young and so the maternal antobodies have waned enough for a vaccination to 'take'. If a pup is leaving at 7 or 8 weeks, and mum has been allowed access to the litter (as she should) any early vaccination will be ineffective.The pup will be far better being homed without a vaccine, given a few days to settle into its new home and then start the vaccine course.

It's funny how everybody jumped on Pedigree and Eukanuba

No it is not, they were the two brands stated which is why they are being discussed, not funny but to be expected.

Any dog food is as good as it's ingredients whether it is kibble, manufactured wet, home produced or raw. Know what is in it and you will know just how good it is - mind you that is if the person making the enquiry or feeding the dog actually knows what a dog requires for good health.

> mind you that is if the person making the enquiry or feeding the dog actually knows what a dog requires for good health.

This comes accross as only ignorant people would not have a problem with Pedigree or Eukanuba.

As this thiread is about what apears to be a puppy farm, it is the perfect place to highlight what a puppy-buyer SHOULD be looking for. Educating the puppy buyers for them to make better choices of breeder to get a puppy from will go a long way towards combatting puppy farmers.

I'm not a breeder and have only ever fed my dogs food that suit them. I personally couldn't care less about the reputation the food has with other people, as long as the dog does well on it. However, what I am getting form this thread now, is that a breeder can not be a responsible, knowledgable breeder if they feed Pedigree or Eukanabu and that any breeder feeding a diet that is considered 'good quality' must, therfore be a good breeder.

It's sad that this thread as come to this. I had, up unitll now thought I had learnt from these boards how to tell the difference between a good breeder and a poor one, now I'm not sure.

Plenty of people will be in the same boat. Now it appears that it's not just enough for a breeder to be breeding for the betterment of thier breed, taking great care over choice of dogs for breeding, doing all health tests, providing a life time of support, willing to take any puppy/dog back etc.. etc.. they also need to avoid feeding specific foods.
Threads like this are the perfect way to educate people, but what is happening here is that it will ailientate people due to what is coming accross as snobbery. Of course every body has the right to an opinion and say a food is cr@p, but providing some reasons for feeding alternative foods is a much better way to educate, than to simply be derogatory to the food in question or people that feed that food.

What a waste of an opportunity to steer people away from puppy farms. It's more likely to steer people away form those connected to the 'show world' :(

This comes accross as only ignorant people would not have a problem with Pedigree or Eukanuba.

Don't know why it should as I have said (Any dog food - kibbles, wet food, home made or raw) no mention there of any particular food at all.

Honestly, all this stuff about food is just derailing this thread.  But if that's what it has become about...

My first dog came from a well-respected breeder who had made both mum and dad up to ShChs in a breed which is numerically large and where this is quite difficult to do.  Parents were health-tested, the pups were raised indoors, in the kitchen, well-socialised, exposed to household noises and were happy and healthy pups.  And they were fed PEDIGREE.

It would not be my first choice of food, and of course we took the pup off it as soon as she had settled at home, but the fact that they were fed Pedigree did not mean that I refused a pup from this litter.

If, on the other hand, the pup had been raised outdoors, in a massive facility, which bred lots of breeds of dog and did not show or work them in any way - well, there's no way I would have wanted a pup from that set-up.  Even if they were all fed Orijen or Ziwipeak or who knows what other great food!!

Case in point:  Food is not a make-it or break-it deal for a puppy buyer.  Other factors should be.  I think we'd do well to focus on those here, for the sake of anyone reading this thread in the future and considering a pup from Baban Kennels.

>The progeny have all got health test results because they were born to parents who were both DNA clear of a hereditary disease. This means that the puppies cannot inherit the disease from the parents. This shows as hereditary clear on the registration papers. It does mean that the parents must both have been tested or themselves be hereditary clear

Thanks for this, my breeds don't require DNA tests so I'm never entirely sure how they work.

>Food is not a make-it or break-it deal for a puppy buyer.  Other factors should be.  I think we'd do well to focus on those here, for the sake of anyone reading this thread in the future and considering a pup from Baban Kennels.

I agree; they dogs aren't being fed rubbish; even though the brands given aren't that great they're not terrible either and so are irrelevant, especially when compared to all the other things that are wrong with this puppy farm. So lets drop the food issue: as rabid says, even if they were being fed to top brand in the world it's still not a good place to get a puppy from.

I too think it is time to return to the issue of puppy farming - but if people make a statement about food it is better replied to than left as a (to my mind) misleading statement.

> they dogs aren't being fed rubbish; even though the brands given aren't that great they're not terrible either

Phew - thank goodness someone with sense has said this :) All of us who feed raw fed something else before converting to raw - we were, and still are, doing what we think is the best at the time (as do most of those who don't feed raw)! My older dog was being fed on Pedigree when we got him from Battersea - he was underweight and had been a stray. We were more concerned at getting him back to weight and settled rather than was Pedigree the 'best' food for him.

After everything I've read on here and on the numerous websites, it's very clear that Baban Kennels is ran as a business and since they are in a business of breeding and selling puppies, that surely makes them a puppy farmer?
I would be interested to know how many litters KC allows them to register every year? 
What really made me laugh was the bit about dogs running free twice a day. Whoopie!! Free ranged chickens run free all day, but they are still farmed chickens!
I'm sure that you're employer SianyG, is very pleased with you standing up for them and giving their business a bit of advertising.
However, I personally hope that posting on this thread will backfire on you and make people think twice before considering having a puppy from Baban Kennels. 
You can put lipstick on a pig SianyG, but it's still a pig.

For those of you talking about the food. Here's couple of interesting reads.
http://www.iamscruelty.com/
http://www.uncaged.co.uk/petfood.htm

>I would be interested to know how many litters KC allows them to register every year? 

As long as they have a legal council licence they can register as many litters as they like, providing the usual criteria are met; that the bitch isn't over- or under-age; that each bitch has no more than 4 litters etc etc, and because they are licenced the bitches cannot have mre than one litter in a 12-month period..

> For those of you talking about the food. Here's couple of interesting reads.
> [url=http://www.iamscruelty.com/" rel=nofollow]http://www.iamscruelty.com/[/url]
> [url=http://www.uncaged.co.uk/petfood.htm" rel=nofollow]http://www.uncaged.co.uk/petfood.htm[/url]

Oh, please enough of the food already :)  We have all read these sort of websites in the past and have long since learned to look beyond the hype.

Stooge, I don't care one bit what you or anybody else feeds their dogs.
I just saw those links on our breed forum and thought they were interesting. If they offend you, I'm sure the admin can remove them from my post :)

To be licensed for 30 dogs must surely be for the purpose of breeding litters of puppies for monetary gain which ever way one looks at it.

I got my dog from Baban farm a year ago, and One things for sure I certainly wouldn't go anywhere else. Very happy!

It's a puppy farm, and not an appropriate place to rear puppies.

This thread is 2 years old & you post now ?? This is a commercial puppy farm which is breeding for money & nothing else & TBH I wouldn't buy anything from them. When they were the subject of a theft, I notice there is nothing about the dogs being pets, just valuable !!