Hallo! I suspect I may have a problem with Gwen,one of my collies,on Bonfire night,and the days before and after,as she acts worried if we re out and she hears a bang.She wasnt too bad last year,though,So I might be worrying for nothing,but Ive just been looking at Zylklene on line,also theres a valerian liquid by dorwest herbs,that is said to be fast acting(so wouldnt need to be given for days before the event,like zylklene)Does anyone have any experience of either,and which would you recommend,please?thanks.

Horses for courses unfortunately!

Remy does best on valerian tincture, I get mine from Holland & Barrett (quicker if I run out and they often have offers on).  With him I've tried Serene-Ums and Scullcap & Valerian tablets (the latter worked a bit and got him started on progress) but the tincture works the best by far and quickly too.  I used Zylkene for Soli generally and it did help lower her anxiety a bit so might be worth a try but for best effect I think you'd need to start now.

Phoebe however either does not respond to any formulation of any kind available on the market or they make her worse, so she'll be diazepam which I know helps.

Otherwise it's the usual stuff - comfort her if she needs it but stay calm and neutral yourself, make sure she has a bolt hole she can hide in (I use a crate covered in a heavy blanket but have used wardrobes and even a kitchen cupboard with a bed in before), turn the volume up and shut the curtains (or doors if no curtains) - dogs can and do make the connection between the flashes and the noise too so if you can block the flashes it will help a little.  And of course, avoid letting them out when there are likely to be bangs (so my guys get a wee at about 5pm then that's it until the small hours for the phobics).

thanks nikita,i think i ll get the tincture,then,,and use it if she needs it.The best and easiest bonfire night I ever had,was when my sister and husband came over,and my son.the two men had such loud voices,the fireworks didnt stand a chance,and the dogs I had at the time,were fine!It was great!
ps,how is phoebe coming on?

My last dog was terrible with fireworks, he frantically run around the house barking :(
One year I had a brain-wave, distract him with a toy. He was nuts about tennis balls, very eager to play catch/fetch. So when I heard a firework, I'd lob his ball (in the house), his love of the ball was far greater than his fear of the fireworks. I also would put the volume up on the TV to help take the 'edge' of the sound of the fireworks and shut all curtains (the sight of them being a cue for his reaction too).

He had great fun with that tactic, it also built up a bit of a positive association, each November got less and less of a problem for him.

I use Dorwests valerian tincture for thunder that can't be predicted in advance for my two noise phobic collies. To be honest I can't tell if it helps, but it makes me feel better by doing something!

I had great results last year fireworks with zylkene though. The collies were much more relaxed and calm, they still jumped at the loudest bangs but they both stayed on the sofa instead of frantically hiding, none of that horrible frantic panting either. Since then I've used zylkene in other situations where I thought the dogs may get stressed like the ferry kennels with good results but it's harder to tell there if they would have been stressed in the first place.

I'm starting the zylkene on the 28th October for 2 weeks this year and hope it goes as well as last :-)

Id heard good results with the zylkene,so i hope it works again for you.If the tincture doesnt help,I ll give it a try next time.
Thats a brilliant idea with the ball! Im fairly sure itd work with my ball-obsessed collies,as well,will certainly be giving that a try!

If she's not too bad maybe a bit of positive reinforcement would help. Some of my guys can be a bit skittish when it all starts up and are reluctant to toilet before bed, I just sit outside with them with a big bag of cheese pieces and they are soon distracted.  By the time it's all over they will sit and watch them with me.  Of course by the next year they have forgotten again so the cheese comes out every year ( either that or they are playing me, lol).

i use zylkene & found them better than the valerian, but every dog is different.
isnt there a special wrap or tshirt thats supposed to be good aswell??

> ps,how is phoebe coming on?

Up and down still, she's still hiding upstairs most of the time but she's starting to venture down more - she's just gone up after nearly 90 minutes down here scrounging for my dinner which is absolutely brilliant!  She's going on meds soon as she's just getting worse outside, I'm just waiting on a prescription atm.  But she's had diazepam at low dose twice and has made a little jump forward afterwards both times (tonight being the second), so I'm confident that when I've found the right thing for her she'll just zoom forwards :-)

> isnt there a special wrap or tshirt thats supposed to be good aswell??

Thundershirt.  Ruddy expensive IMO but on some dogs extremely effective - and if you order direct from the company, I understand they do offer a full refund if it doesn't work :-)  Only caveat is that some dogs find the velcro too much (there is a lot of it) - Phoebe is one of them, it helped her the first time she wore it but as soon as it was taken off, the velcro noise frightened her and she's hated it since.

thanks for the update on phoebe,it sounds like shes improving-not worried enough to risk the chance of missing a bit of food!I do wish you well with her.

ahh thanks nikita ;)

If only there was A Bonfire Night ! Seems that in the UK we have to be anticipating and celebrating events well in advance of the date and repeatedly at that. When I was a child ,we had our fireworks on November 5th. Should the 5th be a Sunday, we celebrated on the Saturday. Firework parties started around here at the beginning of the month and I guess will continue up to Xmas and beyond. Can't believe how people can have so much money to burn !

Bah ! Humbug !

Am in Hungary today hence flag ! Firework displays limited to New Year and certain significant dates. V.sensible!

It apparently started last night! I am unwell at the minute and the last thing I want is Nando barking everytime one of the bl**dy idiots sets off a firework. He isn't frightened, he is just protective of the house I think as he's absolutely fine if he hears them on a walk! What I want to do, is three weeks before new years, go out and get p*ssed, and sing Auld Lang Syne outside their window, see how they like it.

What I want to do, is three weeks before new years, go out and get p*ssed, and sing Auld Lang Syne outside their window, see how they like it.

Lol, I like it, sign me up for backing vocals.
We're very lucky here, not much in the way of fireworks at all.
One of my puppy owners (10 yr now ) rents a cottage in the middle of nowhere for a fortnight every year on Bonfire Night, just for his dog.

> What I want to do, is three weeks before new years, go out and get p*ssed, and sing Auld Lang Syne outside their window, see how they like it.

Oh yes, me too! :)
Let's do a conga on December 1st.

Auld Lang Syne with bagpipe accompaniment would do nicely.

I think they started properly here last night.  Only a few, but that's the start of the buildup :-(

It really is time, after all these years of complaints, accidents, idiocy and injuries and pet deaths, that they were seriously restricted to displays only, NOT sold AT ALL to the general public and the noise level reduced too as at present, the maximum allowed is louder than is tolerable for many pets, especially dogs - apparently a lot of them don't react from a true fear/phobia but simply because the volume is greater than they can tolerate.  Animal cruelty IMO.

Count me in the choir and my daughter is learning the bagpipes (which is even worse than playing them correctly!!) so I'll bring her along!lol

I've been lucky so far and I haven't heard any.  I didn't think there would have been many about this year if we believe the country is in the financial state we are told.

>What I want to do, is three weeks before new years, go out and get p*ssed, and sing Auld Lang Syne outside their window, see how they like it.

ROFLMAO!  :-)  :-)  Way to go!

I agree, I also have friends with children who are scared by the loudness of fireworks now. For that matter some of them scare me!!! I think it would be so much nicer if they were mainly pretty colours and just normal pops and crackles, not the incredibly loud bangs!

We have had the horrid loud ones going off here for a couple of weeks on and off, to be honest it is year round, the dog hate them, not fear but guarding I think, as again they don't worry about them when out for a walk.

What is the point to the loud noise, surely they should e able to design them to be quieter?

I too think only displays should have the ones that are not ground based and only the ones that don't fly in the air for gardens.  Most modern gardens are not big enough or far enough away from houses, sheds etc, for safe use of the big fireworks.

Count me in with the choir, one of my girls howls when I sing !! So I will bring her along too. !!!!

> What is the point to the loud noise, surely they should e able to design them to be quieter?

They can, and they have.  Quiet fireworks have been available for years, as have quiet displays especially for children.  As far as I am concerned, that means that there is no justification whatsoever in continuing to sell the loud ones.

Last night there was a massive display here - it went from dead silent to WW3 in moments :-(  Some of the bangs at the end were absolutely huge, like bombs going off (I'm not exaggerating, they were damn near shaking the house).  Fortunately I'd already given Phoebe some Xanax just in case as we've had the odd one that's worried her, that stuff is amazing!  Just a bit of panting and that was it.

I'd still like to find the a-holes and set off one of their bombs up their backsides though.

Why so many displays so early ? It's only October 22 for goodness sake !!! High time some common sense was applied to firework displays. They should be ON November 5 ( perhaps a day or two either side ) and noise and time limits applied. There have been some horrible accidents at displays over the years. I remember working in A&E as a young nurse and being put off fireworks for life after seeing some very nasty burns. Isn't one display per neighbourhood enough ? Who has so much money to burn ?

It amazes me that with Health and Safety being a major issue in all walks of life now it is still deemed okay to sell explosives to the general public to let off in tiny gardens in the middle of densely populated areas. The only restriction would seem to be that you have to be over 18 to purchase them.

I'm not allowed to stand on a chair at work to reach something overhead in case I slip and hurt myself but I can go to a local store and purchase explosives in any quantity I like to use as and when I like on random evenings throughout the year.

One of my dogs bolted when a firework went off on a summer's evening and was lost overnight and that same dog is now so terrified by fireworks that my vet has prescribed him with Diazepam this year.

I hate fireworks but do appreciate that others like them. If they were restricted to organised displays only and were just let off on the weekend nearest to 5th November and on New Year's Eve then those of us with animals who are terrified by them could take the appropriate measures to ensure our animals suffered as little distress as possible. As it is I know that fireworks will be going off on random nights from now until well into the New Year and my dog will be totally panicked and distressed on each and every occasion.

Oh  I remember one year,very childishly i went outside and bawled something nasty at the top of my voice,in response to some idiot terrifying my dogs on point of wee,one night,with what sounded like a bomb.One night you can bargain for,but not weeks of it!

> Oh I remember one year,very childishly i went outside and bawled something nasty at the top of my voice,in response to some idiot terrifying my dogs on point of wee

I don't think that was childish in the slightest - on the contrary, an appropriate adult stress release at the childlike behaviour of another adult who hasn't evolved past the playing with fire and making things go bang stage.

You could even describe it as an exchange of noise pollution  :)

Heheh,like it!

I see nothing wrong with loud fireworks so long as they are in an organised display and only a couple days either side of nov 5 and new year or a special occasional like a wedding etc.

The fun of seeing spectacular displays both visually and acoustically is rather good fun

I have dogs that are bomb proof and so firework noise doesn't really affect us here and tha fact we do t get too many local ones being set off so not and issue here.

> Why so many displays so early ?

It depends how seriously the people around you take Bonfire. Some areas they have a Bonfire Society in every town/village. They fund raise for it all year, then take it in turn to actually hold their events. They all go to each others bonfires/firework displays, so they have to stagger them. In some parts of the country they have to start in September so they can get them all in!!

>or a special occasional like a wedding etc.

Birthdays? Birth of a child? Passing your exams? All these could be considered a 'special occasion' which would mean a free for all just about any time. No, they should be limited to Novemeber 5th and (grudgingly) New Year. No other time.

>I have dogs that are bomb proof and so firework noise doesn't really affect us here

I assume your local wildlife doesn't get terrified, or doesn't that matter? The sheep that are already pregnant with the early lambs don't take kindly to the explosions above them either.

Organised at a venue so weddings and special birthdays such as a twenty first is to me acceptable.

If people are saying no to that even I would say that is verging on being a bit ba humbug
:-)

>Organised at a venue so weddings and special birthdays such as a twenty first is to me acceptable.

But these will go on throughout the whole year so if you're unfortunate enough to live near 'a venue',  you will have to contend with this on a regular basis.

And as Jeangenie says, what about the wildlife, pregnant mares, ewes etc?

Then I am a bit bah humbug!  Fireworks have absolutely FA to do with birthdays, weddings, and so on.  They were developed in connection with November 5th, to remembr Guy Fawkes' plot to blow up the Houses of Parliament.  That is their purpose - no other and as such I do not believe they should be used for anything else.

I wouldn't wear a santa hat to an easter party!

> if you're unfortunate enough to live near 'a venue'

That was the problem the other night - the WW3 re-enactment was apparently a wedding do.  No warning, not advertised anywhere, and two roads away from me.  Fantastic.

Yes and living near a venue would mean you are more exposed but if the noise is causing a problem then complain.

I doubt there would be that many people that would have displays as they are very expensive .

I just think because we have dogs doesn't give us the right to stop it.

As for pregnant ewes etc I am sure farmers would be a bit clued up on having a venue near them and would put any animals in fields barns that we away from venues.

It is all about compromise and being sensible as you cannot ban this sort of thing as really there is no serious reason enough to do it if the GP are not able to buy them and only certified individuals are allowed to handle fireworks and the venues they are allowed to hold a display.

> They were developed in connection with November 5th, to remembr Guy Fawkes' plot to blow up the Houses of Parliament. 

The Chinese invented Gunpowder and have had fireworks for a very long time, used for weddings and so on, in common with most of the Far East. One of the most amazing displays I've ever seen was put on by the Thai Royal Navy at the Kings Yacht Club Regatta in Phuket.

I know that some dogs really don't like them, as some humans don't however I do enjoy a good organised display, whether it be Bonfire night, new year or as you say Lucy a celebration.
There are many things out there which annoy or upset others but this doesn't happen every day of the year, it's a matter of a few days in general.
Kids screaming about the streets during school holidays annoy me, should we ban them? Lol They also wind up my dogs too!!

> It is all about compromise and being sensible

So why not get rid of the noise? 

Apart from setting the dogs off, thinking we are being invaded (mine are better taken out for a walk, when they are at their worst) I hate the racket they make, what on earth are the house-shakers for/about?

We get some going off year round, but this time of year and new year it really is like WW3, and the air is thick and yellow with the sulphur stinging my eyes.

That takes the whole fun and experience out of fireworks of you remove the bang.. The compromise would be they aren't available on general sale, only available for organised events/companies only... To ban fireworks you'd be putting a lot of people out of business, you only have to look at the revenue generated by the organised displays, very dull with no bang!!! Lol

I sympathise with your dogs getting upset by them, could they not be taken on the main night to a rural spot for a few hours? Or the beach?

That is my point Sue it is anti social if the GP set them off and should be classed like that but organised displays I have no problem and info enjoy them. As you say take the noise out and the effect is lost.

I do sympathise for the nuisance it must cause but a total ban is just going too far.

Sue now don't get me on the annoying noisey pesky kids , that is more irritating than fireworks at least with fireworks you have some lovely to look at ;/) lol

>As for pregnant ewes etc I am sure farmers would be a bit clued up on having a venue near them and would put any animals in fields barns that we away from venues.

How? When there's no advertising for these events, and you don't have immediate access to more land several miles away? Moving animals stresses them too.

And again, who's going to be moving the wildlife?

> As you say take the noise out and the effect is lost.

Removing the noise doesn't stop the visual effect, does it?  And that's the main part, really.

At the very least the allowed noise level should be reduced - at present it is at an intolerably high level for dogs which is where most of the behavioural problems come from.  If it were just reduced a little at least it would help.

>To ban fireworks you'd be putting a lot of people out of business

That's one of the arguments against banning puppy farms, isn't it? But we believe animal welfare is more important then ...

Kids have been setting off the really loud ones outside my house now for about 3 weeks. I think because they know I have dogs they hope that it will scare them thankfully my dogs aren't bothered about them but I'm really fed up of it now.

Well, I'm definitely Bah Humbug ! Bonfire societies have to start early to fit in all the displays !! Why not just have community displays on the night ? How many firework parties do people need to attend ??!! What a sad indictment of our country that people find loud bangs and explosions so thrilling and necessary to enjoyment. Seen one display you've seen them all.I really don't care if they argue that they are raising money for charity. Most of it will be going up in smoke anyway. And there are more peaceful ways of raising funds, ways that do not cause huge stress and anxiety to animals and people. Seems that the kid gloves are most definitely on with Health and Safety. Dangerous explosives on sale to all and sundry and no rules regarding their supervision. Some will learn the hard way and it will take a disaster or two before the government wake up to the fact that the obsession with fireworks has gone beyond reason.

Jan if a big hotel often has events any sensible farmer would not put livestock near the venue whether they advertise or not and most bonfire events are advertised well before the event. A sign has been up for two weeks now to advertise the local village /pTA event which is held on a local farmers land :-)

So what about bird scarers or shooting parties are we going to have to ban anything that is noisy ?

>if a big hotel often has events any sensible farmer would not put livestock near the venue

Livestock have to go where there's grazing. Suggesting they move 200+ sheep several miles (remember how far sound carries) possibly every weekend is impractical and inhumane. Perhaps they should give up producing livestock and we import all our meat instead?

>most bonfire events are advertised well before the event.

But what about 21st birthday parties, which some have claimed to be the sort of 'special occasion' which warrants a re-enactment of the Blitz? Do the perpetrators leaflet all the houses in the area and put up warning notices in advance? Certainly not around here.