I'm looking for some advice.  My little cocker was spayed during a mammory gland removal last year and has recoved well.  Only issue is, she leaks urine now.  It is waking her when sleeping(which is when it usually happens) and she is constantly cleaning herself now.  I have read past posts about this but I would like to ask.  Do any of you use the medication to stop this?   And how well does it work?  Also, what is the cost per month for this approx?  I'm taking her to the vet this afternoon but I would just like to know what to ask when there.

I have an old x breed who leaks. I used propalin syrup for years and gradually weaned her off it , she stopped leaking completely.
She hasn't had it for about 8 months now , however last night she started to leak quite badly so I've started her on it again this morning. It definitely works for my old girl , and my bottle when I'm using it lasts almost three months , costing almost £30 . Not bad to have her comfortable :)

Good luck with the vet visit , I'm confident they will help sort this out for your girl.

It is unusual for a spay to affect a bitch this quickly it usually takes a number of years unless the bitch is already elderly and had a weakness anyway so it is possible this is something else.

I this is spay incontinence it can be treated but not all bitches take to the hormone dose that well. (Talking from a good few years ago there may be better steroids available now.)

Propalin is the most successful drug for this, acting on the bladder sphincter.
Sometimes the addition of the artifical hormone oestrogen in the form of a med called Inurin can help the action of the Propalin by making the sphincter receptors more 'lively'.
My old girl has been on Propalin for 3 years now with just the occasional hormone tablet from time to time.
Works a treat.

It could be due to trauma during the surgery rather than any hormonal problem so it would be worth mentioning that to the vet too.

Hope you get it sorted because she could get sore from the constant licking or the urine leakage.

To rule out a UTI try getting a urine sample.

Doesn't Jane Lilley's column often advise cranberry juice?

Cranberrys and cranberry juice should be used with care particularly if the person or dog is on other medication or is from a breed that suffers from bleeding conditions.

Cranberry alters the ph[acidity]of the urine making it less bug friendly and burn less when urinating.

Soli was on propalin for years and it worked very well for her.

Look at diet too - the less processed the food, the less propalin she needed, and on raw (even with processed treats) she could have just half the normal dose of propalin and be totally dry.  I know someone else who has had the same result with a severely incontinent dog (cause unknown in her case), and they've known many people who found the same thing.

I need to watch with the hormones as the reason she was spayed was to take the hormones away to try and slow down the mammory cancer so I doubt she could get prescribed those.
I'm taking her along now anyway so I will see how we get on.
She is 11yrs old (she's the 'oldest' 11 yr old I've ever had!) and was spayed last year.

Incurin for my ten year old. She was spayed at six but became incontinent at ten. The problem for us was huge ,as she sleeps on my bed.
Within three days ,she was dry again.She takes one pill a day,has been on this for five months now and is much happier.We all are !

My old girl is 12 now and managed really well on the Propalin,after a few years she benefited from the odd Incurin tablet, Your vet will advise im sure. 

My oldest dog was spayed at 10 months and incontinent by 18months has been on propalin ever since (she's now 10) over the years I have managed to reduce the dose to half what it should be.
My aussie was spayed when she was 3 and became incontinent last month aged nearlly 5 she's on incurin and is now totally dry.

Life is strange, short while ago there was a thread about this subject, someone asking if it was a risk and to read the replies you would think that spay incontinence was as rare and hens teeth and now reading this one it would seem it is common, think the truth is it is not that unusual but you can be lucky, do think some breeds are more prone than others but I do not know if that has been researched. My breed now it is very rare but in breeds I have had before it was common.

Only other comment I would make is the medication can make the bitch prone to recurrent UTI, caused, so I am told because the bladder does not empty properly and the retained urine causes infection but that is for those who know to comment on.

According to research (could find it if anyone is interested), 20% of spayed bitches develop spay incontinence.  Just to show how common it is.

Yes would be interested because a lot of owners think it is just old age so how was the research done, think I am asking how the researcher tells if the incontinence is caused by natural causes or by spaying and what is the rate in old intact bitches so we can tell just what is "normal" and what is induced, so to speak.

I know people are not dogs but there is no doubt at all that the decrease of hormones in a woman after the menopause defiantly does increase the risk of 'leaking' even if this is so called stress incontinence. Perhaps because we insist in walking on our back legs but may be not.

I would be very interested to find out too!

My vet has told me it is an age thing and not because she has been spayed.  She is now on AB's just incase it is a UTI and Proplin.  Aparently it is common for bitches with the problem to suffer from UTI's because when they leak constantly, the uretha is open which means the bugs can get in as well as urine leaking out.
I've to try her on 2.5mls of propalin, 3 times per day to start with then I can decrease the dose.  The meds cost £14 and should last at least 2 months.  So all in all, not too bad.

I do think it may be breed, size and weight related as much as anything.

I have so far owned 6 spayed bitches of my current breed from 5 1/2 to nearly 14 years and none has as yet been incontinent, and the oldest three died between 11 and 14 years, and the current are nearly 6 to 13 years of age.

I also had a spayed bitch who died young at 3 1/2, never any incontinence after a year post spay.

All have been under 50lbs weight and fit and correct weight.

Here is the research:  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2762792

It is definitely breed and size related, as commented on in that abstract.

Mine have been smaller gundogs that haven't been overweight either.  All have become incontinent after spaying.
My 2 akita bitches that were spayed (one overweight, one slightly underweight) both became incontinent after spaying.
All these bitches have died between the ages of 12-15yrs old.  Same with the entire bitches.

I'm a bit annoyed with my vet telling me that it was nothing to do with the spay but an age thing that most bitches get.

Pleased to say I have never had one incontinet yet, except the odd accident as the first ones kidneys failed.

I have two elderly spayed bitches. One is incontinent of urine at night. She was getting very distressed by this but is happy to be crated at night and isn't bothered by the wet blanket in the morning -knows it is easy for me just to wash it. Stinky carpets were another matter all together.  My other old girl is fine. Both were spayed at the age of ten .

At what age did they become incontinent, Jan?  And cracar, what age were yours spayed at? 

I wonder if the age at the spay has anything to do with it.

Just thinking back. Kezzie was in fact nine when she was spayed and became incontinent at the age of 10. She is only incontinent at night even though we pop her out for a wee at around 11 and I get up at five. She's fine during the day and I haven't felt it necessary to consider medication. Megan was spayed at 10 following mammary tumours and pyo- never one to do things by halves ! She's fine at 13+ .Both are Border Collies.

Rabid, Ruby was spayed at the end of last year at the age of 10.  She had no problems at all before then.  Since the spay, she was OK for a few months but maybe 3 months ago she started leaking a tiny amount and it has gradually increased till it was just constantly leaking when she was relaxed.  1Day on medication and the problem is solved so now I know I can reduce the amount.

It sounds like they were all spayed at approx 10yrs.  What about people who've spayed their dogs at 6/7yrs, does anyone have incontinent dogs?

We have one dog which was spayed at age 3 yrs and she is now 8yrs, and is not incontinent - but whenever she has a GA for some other reason, or is sedated (which has been 2 or 3 times since spaying), she has been incontinent on returning home, whilst the effects of the sedative are still present.  She was not like this before she was spayed, when she had a sedative for another procedure - nor immediately after spay, on recovering from that op.  So I do think it is something hormonal.  I do worry that as she gets older, old age is going to be the straw that breaks the camels back - like the sedative is - and she will become incontinent.

No, Rabid, this is the first dog that I have spayed at this age.  All the rest have been spayed at around 3/4 yrs like yours.  I swore after my last bitch(spayed at 4) went incontinent in her old age, that I would never have another spayed but Ruby(the 10 yr old) developed mammory tumours and spaying slows the cancer as it takes away the hormone surges during seasons.  I would spay for medical reason but am totally against spaying just because.

Hi cracar, so you spayed the others at age 3/4, but they didn't develop incontinence until old age, 9+?  How do we know this is because of the spay and not because of old age?  Perhaps there are more studies, I will have a look.

Do you not worry about pyo with not spaying them as they get older?

No, I don't worry too much about Pyo.  I have had an experience with an OPEN pyo and I still won't spay that girl.  That might come back to bite me in the butt but I fear the consequences of spaying more than anything else. 
I don't know if it because of spaying or not.  In fact, my vet has told me that this happens to the majority of older bitches wether spayed or not but I just find it perculiar that it has only happened to SPAYED older bitches in my house.  Nothing to do with WHEN they were spayed or their general fitness/shape either as it has been different ages(spaying) and all but one of my spayed bitches have been pretty much perfcect weights.
Rabid, I would love someone to do an Honest survey about this as I feel the same about this as I do Raw diets.  There are pros and cons for both sides and whatever side you are on, you believe it is correct, so who do we trust.....

I think this is a female thing, happens to humans as well. That is why there are so many adverts for Tenna Lady !!  If you did a survey of women who had had hysterectomies, and those that hadn't you would find a lot of age 50 plus women were a bit leaky !!! And some even in there forties.
As a mature lady myself I know a lot of ladies have this condition, sometimes pelvic floor excersise work, but the doctor has told me that keeping as fit as possible and keeping weight down will help to reduce the pressure. So I would assume the same type of thing happens in female dogs, we have had dogs for over fifty years in the family, some were spayed very early as that was the norm, and the information about changes in behaviour etc. was not available then, but all have been spayed after their breeding life was over, or if they were just pets, so far I have had only had one who is a bit leaky. But I have also had male dogs who have become incontinent in later life.
Dogs are classed as vetrans at age 7 but these days with better feeding and medical treatment they live a lot longer, but like older humans they are likely to suffer from age related conditions, and muscles do tend to slacken in later life.

Well, Dorcas0161, you might actually have something there.  Of my bitches that have had the problems, it only usually occurs when I have cut back on the exercise, so they have lost their fitness.  Another of the bitches had weight issues.  My latest doesn't fall into that description though as she still goes out working sometimes and walks as far and fast as the rest and she's not fat in the slightest.
But, I do think it may be something to do with lessening the exercise?

I think it is a natural progression fact of life as we get older are muscles become weaker, and we have to work harder to keep good muscle tone. Which if you have other health issues is not always possible, and I do think genes have a lot to do with it, middle age spread does seem to run in families, and lets face it as we age we do not have the same energy levels.
The bladder muscles do weaken as we get older, and I am sure the same process must occur in animals as is does in humans.
The hospital did say that women who have had difficult childbirth are more inclined to have bladder weakness, but it is not always the case, and some women have thinner bladder walls than others, so I wonder if that could be the case in bitches as well.
Although most of the women I see at the clinic are 50 plus there are younger ones there as well, so who knows.

I wonder if it could be linked in dogs, I don't suppose anyone would keep records of how many bitches out of a litter developed incontinence in later life, and not all owners would report it to the breeder anyway.

My collie was spayed at about 10 months (rescue did her) she started leaking at about 18 months and my aussie was spayed at 3 and started leaking a couple of months ago just before her 5th birthday.

Both have it controlled by medication, the collie propalin and the aussie incurin.

> my aussie was spayed at 3 and started leaking a couple of months ago just before her 5th birthday.

My Aussie was spayed at about 17 months and at 10 1/2, she has no problems at all - strange isn't it ?

I've had one out of 5 spayed bitches develop incontinence. Spayed at 16 months developed (spay related?) incontinence at about 8yrs. Put her on Propalin for a few months and then stopped it and she was fine without it after that.

It's supposed to be more likely if the bitch is spayed early, but I've not seen a definition of 'early' in this particular context yet.  I think it's supposed to mean before a year old.

Soli was I believe around 2 when she was spayed though, and developed her spay-incontinence at about 4yrs old.

Having attempted to read some of the several studies that are out there, it looks like there are different causes at work.  For some dogs, it can be hormonal and these dogs respond well to hormones as meds to stop it.  However, not all dogs respond to the hormones as meds and there are other causes too.  And I think it could be assumed that one cause is old age - whether the dog is spayed or unspayed.  (I do wonder if someone can use the population in Sweden/Scandinavia, where neutering is much less common, to see the incidence of it in entire older dogs there and whether that is lower than in spayed older dogs here.)

Just a quick update and a question please.
We have been using the meds for almost 2 weeks and although we are doing well, we are not managing to cut it down any.  She is also drinking a lot more water.  Is this normal? She is always desparate for a drink(cos she empties the water bowl inside constantly)
Last night, my OH thought he was being funny coming home wearing a silly mask.  He walked through the door and all the dogs went crazy(luckilly the 'biter' was outside) barking and growling but the oldie just lay in her bed and completely wet herself.  So his funny joke ended with us all in tears and the oldie in the bath!
I'm going to check for Diabetes today as it's not been done yet.
Also, do you think this could be connected to her cancer? 
I just figured the drug was a cure-all and am just a bit sad.