I don't know the full story behind this and there might be a reasons behind it but...

There are 3 dogs in rescue of a particular breed through no fault of their own (think owner passed away), rescue have discovered both bitches are in whelp. They are now beginning to advertise the puppies as being ready after Christmas. Its a breed where puppies are hard to sell, I know of several 'older' puppies this year from a few good breeders that have still not found homes. They tend to produce large litters (around 10) so potentially 20+ puppies to find homes for as well as the adults themselves.  They are not a breed for everyone but puppies are cute, they may well end up in homes that are not knowledgeable and prepared and dogs later returned with issues which would make them even harder to re home. Is is really the best thing for these bitches to continue with the pregnancies?

Just after thoughts really as mine was perhaps not (like I said I don't know all the facts)

If you want the full story I have it. Really their best bet would by far be to donate the lot to the police or MOD once 7 weeks old. They would probably be grateful. At least the rescue in question is in touch with breed rescue.

Find myself with you on this one, why do rescue organizations allow bitches to continue to term when it could be stopped, yes I know that puppies are easy to sell than an adult but what is the point in adding to there own problems.

These pups won't even be easy to sell as they should not be allowed to go as pets if the rescue has any sense at all.

Not so subtle!!lol
I would end the pregnancies through spaying the bitches and find suitable homes for these dogs.
Not to knock the rescue but I assume they will take payment for the puppies? Could this be a fundraiser?  Also, puppies get free advertising.  Imean, who doesn't share a puppy needing a home on FB?  Good for the rescue all round.  Not so great for the breed which really is a specialist breed.  I wouldn't contemplate the breed!! Far too intellegent for me!!lol

I didnt want to seem as though I was slating the rescue as i'm sure they have their reasons.

Marianne I did think maybe they should be looking to donate them to the Police/MOD, might be a better option than trying to find suitable homes for them all. Could you PM me the info :)

What is the cutoff point from where you can use alizin or whatever it's called on a bitch? I think it's a wonderful idea or dogs in rescue.

45 days from mating.

I see a lot of dogs come into rescue at the point where they are mere days from having pups :(

> why do rescue organizations allow bitches to continue to term when it could be stopped

I'm with you too and have had this discussion on several rescue boards. They usually say every dog has a right to life but I disagree. It usually ends with emotive stories of puppies being aborted late and viable etc.

To me it's a no brainer, if it's possible to have the alizin injection then do it, or have the bitch spayed, the last thing anyone needs is more dogs in rescue.

Hope i don't sound too stupid here but by spaying a heavily pregnant bitch who may be a week or two from having pups...well, is this not cruel to her and possibly the pups? Medically cruel, i am not talking about emotions here.

My first thought was why not end the pregnancies, if it wasn't obvious when they arrived that they were pregnant then it is early enough to give the jab or to spay both bitches ready for rehoming rather than waiting another 3 months plus of them living in a rescue centre.

> spaying a heavily pregnant bitch who may be a week or two from having pups...well, is this not cruel to her and possibly the pups?

Is it? I personally don't think so, having and rearing pups takes a lot out of the bitch. Having pups hanging around in rescue for months waiting for homes is cruel isn't it? It's inevitable that pregnancies aren't noticed until late on in rescue bitches to me a late spay is the kinder option all round - to the bitch, the pups and the community. These are pups that we know nothing about - they may be sired by a banned breed and end up falling foul of the DDA, they may have inherited health and temperament issues that require them to be put to sleep at a young age, they may be of a breed that should not be kept as pets by any but the most experienced owners.

>is this not cruel to her and possibly the pups?

It's no different to the bitch having a caesarian, so certainly not cruel to her. The anaesthetic would also affect the unborn whelps, and a further injection when each was removed would mean they wouldn't suffer at all.

I didn't mean from an ethical point of view,if a spaying can be done to a heavily pregnant bitch and litter and not cause suffering to her it should absolutely be done. i can't imagine what sort of logic rescue's try to use in rationalising that it shouldn't be done then?

> i can't imagine what sort of logic rescue's try to use in rationalising that it shouldn't be done then

Having had the argument several times I can tell you that they will use emotive language to describe holding a newborn breathing pup in your hands and killing it, when it hasn't done anything wrong and didn't ask to be born etc etc

It may be easy to sit here in my livingroom and say that's what others should do, but I apply the same rules to my own much loved dogs, if they don't have a reasonable expectation of a high quality of life then they are put to sleep, after all they don't know that's what is happening, it's only me that is left suffering.

In rescue situations I see no need or reason for further puppies. It's sad but it IS true.

> if a spaying can be done to a heavily pregnant bitch

As Marianne said no different to a C section, and the added plus of being able to spay there and then, so the bitch doesn't go through the strain of whelping and rearing and then an operation shortly after.

This way the bitch can be homed ASAP.

Imean, who doesn't share a puppy needing a home on FB?  Good for the rescue all round.

Just to clarify, it isn't (not as far as I know anyway, have only seen one mention) the rescue that is mentioning them on FB .

As far as I know, these bitches have been with the rescue for a few weeks now, so beats me why they weren't spayed straight away -then they wouldn't have been heavily pregnant at least. (Could of course be that they were in too poor condition though to cope with surgery straight away, I don't know.)