I'm glad you all had input into whether or not Staffys should be aggresive or not but it doesn't really help me with my problem.

Are you honestly trying to tell me that your Staffys have never growled at another dog. My male dog, as I stated previously has never bitten our cat, they even eat out of the same bowl, nor has he hurt my Yorkie. He has never bitten any human or animal.

He is just showing his dominance over the pup, by standing over her and growling. It looks very scarry but if he wanted to hurt her she would be dead. From the advice of some of you perhaps I should go out and put a bullet in his head now? I don't think so. He has Champion blood lines, thanks. I chose him very carefully and I am not irresponsible.

I would love to hear from anyone who has had similar problem and who may have some USEFUL advice.

The male is 2 years old and the female is 9 weeks old.

Thank you
Karen

as you say if he wanted to hurt the pup she would be dead so at least it does not sound too serious.usually find just a raised voice and a small punishment like caging him when he does it (and making him realise why he is being isolated may help). it has for me in the past.i would raise my voice and cage him for say 30 mins letting him kknow he was being punished and then let him out and if he repeats the situation repeat the punishment,personally i know it is a worry but do not think it a huge problem if she is new like you say he is probably just showing her who the boss is and once she realises it will probably stop on its own..i am sure i do not need to tell you never to leave 2 staffords together unattended, that is plain asking for trouble.good luck karen

Hi
I think the fact that your opening statement were you say he has always hated other dogs points to the fact that its not just a dominance thing.
I would not be happy with a dog that felt he needed to assert dominance over a 9 week old bitch puppy -that is not normal-a pup is no threat.
My staff has NEVER growled at another dog (he is almost 4) but that does not mean he would not or could not defend himself if neccessary.He has accepted 2 young males(now 2yrs and 1 yr) into his house with no problems at all.
No one is saying that you should shoot your dog and no-one is saying you're irresponsible-I'm sorry if I gave you that impression.In fact after the initial couple of replys the rest of the post was really nothing to do with your post at all but about staffs in general.
I would try to confirm your males dominance by feeding him first ,petting him first etc.If he shows aggression to the pup I would remove him from the room and ignore him every time.He needs to learn aggression is not acceptable-with either of the other dogs whether its meant or not
Sorry for any offence taken-none meant
Archer

Hi, Just been catching up on new postings and I have just read the above topic parts 1 and 2. I don't post as regular as I should, but I just couldn't believe some of the comments I read. I have 2 Staffies Tessa 11yrs and Charlie 5 mths and 3 cats 5,3 and 1 and my Tessa accepted them all like your Staffie did and she had been my only baby for 6yrs. I have posted about this before, so won't bore you with it again but I just wanted to say that I agree with you entirely and also like your Staffie my Tessa has NEVER growled at another dog (she just ignores them because she thinks she's a human anyway) so to the person who found it hard to believe this, I can second it.
Also I have had my friends Pitbull live here for 3mths (Tessa was 6yrs and had just accepted the Cat) Tessa loved walking beside her big Mate aand I had Tessa beside me at the top of my bed, Pitbull at the bottom and my cat somewhere in between.
As I am writing this both Staffies are curled up together on the couch with one of my cats.
I have to say if I had never owned a Staffie and was thinking of getting one I would probably be having second thoughts after reading about all this "agression" in Staffies. Again I agree with Archer in confirming his dominance. Tessa knows she's still number 1 (after me) and including my cats in the pecking order it didn't take too long for Charlie to find out He's number 5. The cats always get their food first (high up out of temptation for Charlie) Then Tessa gets hers sat down first again out of temptation (behind babygate) and I then make Charlie sit till I count to five (poor sod) but he has always been used to this from I got him at 7wks so now he just sits and waits before I even ask him. Most of what I practice with my puppy I have learned from reading messages on this site which thankfully I found on the night Charlie so unexpectedly came to join my unsuspecting furry family. Thank You All. Deirdre

Hi,

How is/was your dog with other dogs / pups outside of the home? How did you introduce them? How have you been with them?

If your dog has been told off because of the pup then he may have started to associate her with bad things, and therefore see her as a threat..

I have 2 sbt's and can honestly say that if my dog was dog aggressive i would never have contemplated introducing another pup into the house... hope it works out for you, but one word of advice - never ver leave them alone together unsupervised - even if and when they get on like a house on fire - cos you could cme back to a mess one day...

Alex

i'm a little unclear as to whether your staffie is actually aggro with other dogs or just defends himself when necessary...if the former, then he may well be likely to only get on well with dogs he has become used to, his dog "friends".

It may mean it is more difficult to get him used to the puppy. Staffies as a breed do have a unique way of interraction with other dogs as you know, they can come across as very bold and strong but I'm not sure about how adults are usually with puppies. i know that in a pup class, if there is a Staff pup there with others, his playmates have to be chosen with care or he will scare them bu his pushiness - not necessarily aggressiveness, just the Staffie way.

I agree about not leaving them alone, certainly until you are sure all is ok.

LIndsay

No, Lindsey, i did not mean until they are ok i meant NEVER leave them alone together unsupervised... Yoyu never know what might start them off, and being the breed they are they will defend themselves, even if it is just play that gets out of hand!

Staffords are like any other dog with pups, they play hard, but no dog should ever threaten or attack a pup... i would be ery concerned if the dog is actually doing this... They play hard, but it is obviously just play... Maybe the poster has chosen a very dominat bitch pup, and the adult is trying to put her in her plave... either way dont leave them alone!

Alex

Lets tell it as it is here. Staffies do not like to tolerate strange dogs full stop. NO staffy would stand a strange large dog coming up to them and sniffing around them and simply wag their tails and say "hello".
You should be able to walk them past other dogs quite peacefully but they ain't never gonna play in the field with another large dog!
We have staffies adults and puppies but have ALWAYS introduced new additions slowly and cautiously.
Put the new addition in a cage and start by walking your adult staff past on a lead and to start with let him only look NOT sniff.
Then next step let him have a sniff with his lead on and the pup in a cage. Any signs of growling and a firm no and yank on the lead. We say be nice and ours know what we mean.
After a couple of days of this let him walk past with no lead, again any growls corrected.
Get him used to eating his meals and having his fuss in the same room but away from the cage.
After a few days he will see the pup as no threat, be used to the pup jumping around the cage and the pups smells.
Then pop them both on a lead and just sit with them in the kitchen or lounge. Any growls corrected.
You must be patient.
Then take your dog of his lead but with a collar on while pup is sitting by you, that way your dog decides when to go over without the pup jumping all over him! Let him sniff but watch carefully.
Next time hold him on the lead and let the pup run to him. Again over a few days.
Then let them together. Hopefully all the hard work will be worth it.
As it has previously been said NEVER leave two staffies together unattended.
Must say anyone that says they have a staffy thet NEVER growls at other strange dog I find it hard to believe.
Our staffs are fine with each other because they are "friends" but none like strange dogs and mine are anything but aggressive!

Phew! I don't know many staffies, but are they really like this?

Staffies are fantastic with children, people and dogs they know BUT they are very cautious of strange especially large dogs. So they put themselves on the defensive before they are attacked (this is how they seem to think).
When a staffie is on the lead and another dog is on the lead I agree they should be well behaved but the same cannot be expected if a strange large dog comes bounding over to them, but this is the same for other breeds too.
We show our dogs and they are OK in the ring. Yes they may have a grumble to the one stood next to them that will probably have a grumble to the one next to him and so on, this is not unusual around the staffie ring and no one stands back in horror because two dogs moan at eachother!
In the vets I have seen labradors growl at every dog that walks by and yorkshire terriers do the same so staffies are not on their own. Plenty of socialisation from a young age and you have a much more tolerent dog but as someone said earlier it takes alot to breed out of a breed what was originally bred into them!

I know most dogs at a vet's are scared and defensive and therefore not at their best!

But I'm amazed that people are saying you can never leave two staffies alone together without the risk that they'll try to savage each other!

I couldn't possibly cope with that!

Well not just in the vets actually I just gave that as an example, at handling classes other breeds give the first growel.
Well before anyone bought a Staffie I would hope they did their homework and realised that two should not be left alone. There have been other posts on here where dogs have fought when left alone so it is not just staffies either.
It really is no big problem to keep them seperate so if some one could not handle that then it is as well they do not have that breed :-)

As we see from some of these posts people don't do their homework!

Luckily I'm not looking for another dog at the moment - I have four who all live, feed and sleep happily together, and play well with other dogs when we're out, and that's the way I like it! :)

I know that is the sad thing. That is why I said hopefully they would have done their homework :-(
Really though if you saw all ours together you would see they can all get along fine it is just that no one should take the risk and leave them together unsupervised just in case.
Glad to hear all yours get along fine. What breed(s) are they?
Alot of any dog ownership comes to how responsible the owner is - for any breed :-)

Staffie,
Mine are dalmatians, at this moment all piled into an individual dogbed (it's in the best spot under the kitchen table, so it's a case of "last one in's a sissy!") :D

I can just imagine it, legs everywhere!
We had a dalmation when I was young. He used to love putting his head in the mop bucket!!. He was a sweetie and we called him Domino - how original!!! He used to lie in his bed, lanky legs in the air snoring away!!!

I must say that while some may be pleased to promote and breed from a paticularly aggressive dog i am very glad many dont !
I have a friend who has breed 7 Staff litters to date.If ANY of her dogs are over aggressive she does not breed from them.She accepts ( well, accept is probably too harsh a word , she gladly accepts would be better) the aggressive history of the dog , but as she IS NOT nor would ever breed for fighting purposes she feels that the better the temprement the better chance her breed has of staying ..and not eventually being culled.
Should the Staff breed NEED to be so aggressive these days then very well , breed from such a dog...but Liz allways tells me that whilst she finds this a some what admirable quality , she cannot fully check the people that buy her pups and what they intend to do with them so she does her best to safe guard them~in their personalities.
Liz's 5 month old staff ( male ) is an absoloute darling around my Newf bitch ! even though Ella is almost twice the size and bounds over to him.
I would call this GOOD BREEDING

Wel good for your friend. I would NEVER breed from an aggressive bitch. A bitch that growel at a strange dog running at her is not aggressive. A bitch that goes wild on the lead growling at every dog walking past could be called aggressive. When you are used to the breed then you would know what was true aggression and what was "defend before attacked" logic.
As for your friends staffy bitch with your Newfoundland that is great to hear, but in all honesty could the same be said if the staffy bitch was 2 years old and never met your dog before and then it went bounding up to her. Not trying to nit pick but just saying that staffy is still a puppy.
All our staffies are fine with our VERY BIG and slobbery bordeaux and all play and go walks together fine. In fact when our bordeaux was unable to look after her young both our staffie bitches got in the basket with the pups and tried to mother them, sadly neither produced the milk but they helped in the toileting and cleaning of the pups.
My staffs are ALL fine with pups too.
Because a staffie will growel at a strange dog that gets in their space is not aggression and does not make a dog unfit to breed from. A dog that attacks a dog standing away doing nothing or bites a person IS aggressive.
edit: sorry I mean puppy dog

We took pup ( also a Staffy) out in the field today with a German Shepherd pup that he had never met before today ( a friends pup) and he was brilliant .
They both just wanted to play and chase each other . He has met allsorts of dogs at socialisation and training classes ( from boxers to spaniels ) and he has been brilliant with all . That includes adult dogs and pups .
I would be extrememly worried if he was needlessly aggresive with other dogs. As I have said before we spoke to several breeders before we chose the breeder we thought was right for us and temperament of the parents was a major factor in our choice of breeder .
There is no need in todays society to have an overly aggresive dog . This breed has no need to fight in this day and age and owners who encourage the aggresive streak are irresponsible and stupid ( sorry if i am going off thread a bit there - and i am not calling the original poster either but that is why breeds get a "bad" name so to speak because of careless owners)
Lel

Exactly, early socialisation is a must. Your puppy was happy to play on the field with another puppy. But as a responsible owner I know you would not allow the same with a fully mature staffie and a totally strange dog without first assessing how they would get along. Hopefully everything would be OK.
We are totally against any form of fihting and unprovoked aggression but many experienced breeders beleive there still does have to be a certain "gameness" about the breed. Gameness can be shown without aggression!
Glad your breeders had the dam and sire there for you to assess the temprements of each, however many breeders may have to travel to take their bitch to a suitable stud dog as not all suitors are that close, depending on whether choosing a champion or line breeding that is.

It has been said that in training classes 'The other breeds growl first' and this may be true, as from personal experience, my JRT, who is the sweetest dog with all other dogs, or rather was, until he was attacked badly by a 'staffy' and unfortunately since that first incident, he and my other dog have been attacked a further four times by 'staffies', and each incident has started with the 'staffy' trotting over to my dogs, and not the other way round.
I have to say that it has left a sour taste in my mouth where staffordshire bull terriers are concerned, as in areas around me they seem to have become a sort of 'status symbol' to the sort of people who really don't seem to be responsible enough to have any type of dog, let alone a dog with apparently heightened aggressive tendancies.
Please don't think I'm calling for a ban of the breed or anything. It simply seems ludicrous to me to purposely breed from any animal that shows heightened aggression, or indeed bring a small and vulnerable puppy into a household where there is an aggressive dog, and I can't see how that situation could be best for either animal?
Emily

Sorry to hear of the attack on your dogs. Why was the staffie off the lead and were yours on a lead?
In all fairness we have JRT's living in our village and they are running loose out of their house. Whenever we walk past with the staffies they come running out yapping at our staffies heels. As yet none of our staffs have retaliated as we keep control of them. We have spoken to the owner but they still run out. So it works both ways in my experience it is a JRT that starts the ball rolling :-)
In some areas sadly it is true staffies along with rotties or GSD are used as status symbols but we should judge the owners not the dogs it is how they have been brought up!!! :-(

strange one this, my 8 mth staffie bitch is brilliant with other dogs i'm more worried about her running over to say hello and getting attacked herself or even worse jumping up at the owner (a bad habit i hate!!!) she's had a bit of bad luck with lurchers and greyhounds!!? (they dont seem to like her!!!) pesonaly i would say the temperment has to be spot on friendly with anyone or anythihg but be real serious acting in defence of self or owner!!!

For those of you that do have "OURDOGS" paper have a look at the Staffors Breed Notes for this week. You will see an interesting letter detailing many of the points made on this thread. If you do not have the paper visit www.ourdogs.co.uk and choose the breed notes option for SBT. Have not copied and pasted as not sue if we are allowed to do that :-)

DittO :D

There are other breeds of a very dominant nature that this applies to too.

No they are not!! Its all about socialising them, how you want your dogs to be!! It was always important for me to be able to look forward to walking my three, hassle free, letting them play with any dog, large or small, while I socialise with the owners! Am I just lucky that my three bitches, who eat sleep and play together are apparently good natured and not dog aggresive? No, it took a lot of (enjoyable) work to train and socialise them, just like the owners of the Rotties, GSD, Border Collies, Lurchers, Retrievers and Heinz varities we mix with.

Sadly, though, there are the owners (who shouldn't really be in charge of a dead stick insect) who think it's makes them look "big" to have a staffy pulling them along on its macho leather studded harness. They wouldn't dream of being responsible enough to socialise and train any dog to walk properly and be sensible around others.

This is not aimed at anyone on this thread, so please don't leap down my throat!

Everyone has a right to their own opinion - but i have a female stafford that has never growled in anything but play at another dog and she is nearly 4 years old! She is fine with strange dogs and people, and especially good around pups, as any well adjusted adult dog should be, stafford or no! I introduced a male pup when she was 3 years old, and the pup was 6 weeks and after initial worries about how she should behave (pup was very boisterous and dominant) she klearnt that she had to put him in his place and that this was ok - this tok about 3 days! I am amazed that you would put pup in cage and not let your adult dog sniff the pup - this to me is giving the adult every idea that the baby is something to be worried about.. I know many breedres and judges of staffords and was careful to seek advice from them before introducing the new addition , and all of them said to behave as though nothing major was going on - keep and eye on the situation and allow the adult to chastise the baby as this is what would happen in a wild/family situation...

Jeangenie - The reason that 2 staffords should not be left unattended together is that you never know what could happen. While you are out and your 2 dogs are left together and a fight starts over a toy - this could easily get out of hand in any breed, but with staffords the general concesus is that they will not stop if injured, and it is better to besafe than sorry.. This does not apply to all staffords, but again it is better to be safe than sorry! My 2 always sleep together, piled into their bed with the cat, until she decides she wants the whole thing to herself!! :D

Alex

I was replying to rhe original poster who was asking for advice how to get his adult staff used to the puppy as the adult had been growling. Given that I think the safest place for the puppy would be a cage until the older dog excepted him as he had been warning him. Would you risk that one bite from a grown male to a pup???? It is all about being responsible in EACH situation and not just taking a blanket view that ALL staffs are the same in every way, because they are not.

The problem seems to be that that is the male the original poster wants to mate (eventually) to the new puppy. It seems to be felt that if the male is so aggressive/dominant/challenging to a young bitch puppy, is the male suitable to breed from at all?

Have I summarised this right?

When I answered the initial post that is Exactly what I was trying to get across!!!!!

In that case I would say no as none of ours have shown aggression to a young pup. Infact we have just bought a Lakeland Terrier puppy for my children to start showing with and all our dogs staffy and Bordeaux bitches are trying to mother her!!!
Our male staff is fine with her too but he is only 9 month old himself so still at puppy stage and boisterous so we dont let him play too much incase he hurts her - not aggressivly but in play :-)

I would consider this partly a training issue, as he should have no need to stand over the pup growling. If she pesters him, then he is entitled, by growling or even if pushed too far a snap of the air, to tell her off. It is not acceptable for him to stand over and dominate the pup, oir the Yorkie (I think I read this in previous post, if not then sorry). The dominant one in the realtionship should be you, and you should make it clear to him that you will not allow him to do this! If he growls at pup for no good reason, then he should be told off by you. If there's any dominating to be done then it is your place as boss/leader of the pack/a;ph to enforce discipline.

This approach works with my breed who are naturally fairly easy going, my freinds Dobermannns who can be a more dominant breed. An adult malke should have no need to dominate a puppy, and especially a bitch.

My sentiments exactly(as I posted earlier).Dominance aggression is shown when there is a dominance issue-i.e when the other dog is a threat.What threat is a 9 week old pup??
If this problem of standing over another dog and growling had sorted when it occured with the yorkie it would not be an issue now.He has obviously got away with it before and therefore sees no wrong in what he is doing now.
Poster,You have not replied as to what he is like with other dogs(you say he hates them).Does he lunge and 'make the first move' or does he walk by quietly unless threatened?
Archer

The encounters I have had with staffies have been very mixed.
I meet many in the woods each day running free and have never had a problem with ANY of them, they have come over to us{group of 6 dogs} and started playing with no problems.
The staffies I have had problems with have been staffies at shows and at my training club. why??????? always when on a lead.
I have nothing against the breed whatsoever but truely think an dog that shows aggresion towards other dogs should not be bred from,
Afterall most of our dogs go to pet homes in family enviroments and I have chosen not to bred from a goldie bitch for such a reason as she CAN be a little nervous around other dogs.

Well i must have my say i have seven staffords who all get on well, they go on holiday to my mums she has german spitz and irish setters they all play together and my mum has never had any problems with the staffs and spitz together we never leave them alone together but the same can be said about her spitz she had 2 bitches fight over whos top bitch and all i can say is they both ened up with cuts and bruises. When i walk my staffs im always causious of other dogs and try to give them a wide berth but that didnt stop a shepard jumping a fence and pinning one of my bitches to the floor kids screaming owner of shepard standing there not knowing what to do my bitch turned and tried to flee shepard still after her me on end of lead kids ran out of the way man then said he thought my staff should be able to look after herself . all my dogs are socialised at a very early age but like every one else has advised i would never leave 2 alone together my bitches always treat pups as their own wether they are or not and welcome any freindly dog into the house

Can I also mention that my last dog was also a Stafford . He was 14 when he had to eventually be put to sleep due to illness put down to old age . He too was brilliant with other dogs - he never acted aggressively with other dogs and again as previously mentioned I would like to put this down to responsible ownership and early socialisation .
Having said that , whenever we were out walking if we encountered other dogs I would always put him back on his lead . That to me is responsible .
I have had other dogs come over and act aggressively while Sam was on his lead and then have owners grumble and mutter about how Staffords should be muzzled etc when it was their dog being a bloody nuisance !!
I agree some Stafford owners shouldnt be in charge of ANY animal - i am sure we have all come across them . Infact we had a neighbour who used to boast that his Staffy hated cats and he thought it great fun to let his dog chase them . It made my blood boil !!
That is why breeds get a bad name ( Rottys , Staffys etc) because idiots give the press something to write about and the majority of the public believe what they read .
To answer the original poster I really hope this works out for you but please please dont breed from this dog if you have the least concerns about your dogs temperament .
Lel

Overall, it seems that the consensus is that the original poster should not use his male as a stud dog.

Or am I getting the wrong impression?

I would say any responsible breeder -whatever the breed of dog should surely choose the best dam and sire he can and that includes temparement as well as looks and health issues .
lel

I have two game bred ISBT who love to meet other dogs and show no aggression. Stop portraying my breeds as aggressive when you obviously dont have a clue. Just because you own a staff donty mean you know anything about them. a staff with no prey drive is just another dog. Another thing if Staffie has only seen staffs behaving in an aggressive manner to other dogs then they have never seen a good bred game staff. Hunting dogs have a high prey drive and so do wild dogs but they have to live and work in a pack and are normally social. A confident staff that has been handled properly will very rarely show aggression as they dont feel threatened. Most of the squabbles my dogs have ever had is down to other dogs feeling intimidated by the bull terriers presence, then the other dog wants to fight and a bull terrier will gladly have a go if thats what the other dog wants. Usually the bull terrier comes out best and this gets them a bad name.

Admin edit: terms of service

Agreed!!! i've met plenty of staffies while out with Tarot [Dane cross, so yeah, he's BIG!!]. He will bound up to any dog to say hi, and has NEVER been grumbled at by ANY of the staffs we've met. And he really doesn't have any doggie manners, he literally "bounces" at them and will insist on sniffing for at least five minutes!!!!
Personally i think it's irresponsible to breed a dog or bitch that is dog aggressive to ANY degree, regardless of breed. Many people have dogs that are dog aggressive who are that way because of bad breeding - i'm not talking rescue dogs or inexperienced people, i mean those that have socialised their dog well from puppy hood experience this problem too.
Staffs don't lose their boldness and courage when they're friendly, well adjusted well socialised dogs. There's absolutely NO need for the aggro temperament fighting dogs have/had anymore - why would you want to further damage the reputation of the breed by encouraging the breeding of a dog that is known to be dog aggressive?!?!?!?
The mind boggles!

Annette

MOst of the staffies round here are fine with other dogs, in fact years ago my BSd was so intent on his toy which i threw for him that he accidentally "ran over" a Staffie male, and there was no problem at all. There has only been one "dodgy" one that i know of, and he was encouraged to attack other dogs by his owner :(.

I personally would find it hard to keep dogs that couldn't eventually get on. i understand that with staffies you have to be careful because once they get going they take no notice of appeasing signals, the chemicals start to act, and it has to be taken seriously. i may be wrong but my feeling is that the initial poster's dog was for whatever reason not socialised as well as he could have been and is therefore unhappy about any dog except those he has always known. This is what I was trying to discover in a previous post as we can't make assumptions about what a dog is like just because it is a staffie, any do g may stand over and growl at a pup for whatever reason; we surely have to find out more to be able to give a helpful answer :)

I feel too that if the dog in question gets on well with the Yorkie, there is hope for the pup and the staffie.
Lindsay

To: Speedsmum
That is great that none of the dogs he has bounded up to have grumbled at him. BUT what if one day he bounded up to a dog on the lead (any breed) and that dog did attack him?
Who would be at fault? The owner of the dog on the lead or the owner who allowed their dog to go bounding over?
I know when we have been out walks with our dogs and children it does annoy us when dogs come bounding over, not only because we take the trouble to maintain full control of our dogs but because that "bounding dog" could knock the children clean off their feet :-(

i'm well aware that it'd be my fault if the dog he bounds up to was totally unimpressed, and i'd never try to make out that it was the other dog's fault. Tarot's recall does leave much to be desired [he's still a pup at a year old and we've had him just eight weeks], but we're working on it! i'm simply pointing out that staffs really aren't as aggro as you seem to believe!!!!!!
Good for you that you take the trouble to keep your dogs under control :) i know what it's like!

Annette

To: Mr Murphy
Of course I have not only seen staffies behaving in an aggresive manor. I suggest you take the initiative to read ALL my posts.
Maybe I don't just look through rose tinted specks!!!
I am not running staffs down but I am not going to say that they are ALL sweet little doggies that LOVE all dogs, and we love and have alot of knowledge on the breed. So, sorry to disappoint you but you are not the only one that knows their breed. Some do some don't. Even the ones that are OK with other strange dogs have the potential if they so wished to turn, BUT THAT IS THE SAME WITH ANY DOG.
So if your ISBT are so good with ANY dog, hand on heart can you tell me that you would allow them to run free with ANY strange dogs without any concerns? Like we have said even with 2 staffs reared together it only takes one incident over something a silly as a stick they are playing with for things to get nasty, again this can be said for other breeds too.
Personally when out with mine I would rather be more responsible, than be the one that says OOOps he has never done that before, but everyone has the right to their own opinion.

Hi staffie

Yes both my dogs are off lead trained and run free on the beach and up the hill with any dog they meet without a problem. I only call mine and put them on a lead if the dog coming towards me is put on a lead by its owner. My APBT was the same. however my dogs have grown with two rats and two cats as pals, they will come to me on command regardless of what is going on around them. They will sit or walk on at command and ignore other dogs. Again my APBT was the same. I have trained them religiously since I got them. They are with me most of the day as my work commitments doesnt stop me from having them with me. If they are not with me they are with my wife so they get a lot of socialising. My APBT and staff cross lived together for about 8 years and were never separated even when left on their own and they never had a fight, one was a complete bitch the APBT was dressed because of a stupid law. I look after a lot of friends dogs. Mostly bull breeds, and have fostered dogs again mostly bull breeds till they have found new homes. I think that it really depends on whether the dog looks at you as the ultimate leader or just a member of the pack that determines how well behaved the dog is.
I would just like to say for the members of the board who dont know me that I have no qualifications on dog behaviour or training only 36 years of bull terrier experience. So this is my opinion as staffie says we are all entitled to that. If my opinion doesnt suit anyone elses opinion please ignore it.

I have no doubt that you are experienced in the Bull Breeds but did not appreciate the comment you made that "just cause you own a staff does not mean you know anything", nor that I had never seen a game stafford.
When people come to us for a puppy we explain the importance of socialisation of the puppy with other dogs and children. but we do tell them to always be observant around other dogs as best safe than sorry.
I have seen many a very, very experienced staffie person in a show ring and quiet ofren their dogs may have a grumble at the dog next door, but that is all it is a grumble as the dogs are always under control.

To Staffie

Im sorry if I upset you with my statement. However a statement like. "Lets tell it as it is here. Staffies do not like to tolerate strange dogs full stop." " No staffie would stand another large dog coming up to them and wag their tail" and They wont play in the feild with another dog" Just is not true and reinforces the anti bull & terrier peoples veiw that they are dangerous. If you are so experienced in the breed then you should be well aware of the image these dogs have and the fact they could end up banned in the future, and be more thoughtful about what you say. All of my bull terriers will do everything you said bull terriers dont.
If you had not made a sweeping statement neither would I.

Regards Mick

I am aware of the opinions of Staffies and the bad press they receive. That is why I do recommend people air on the side of caution with their staffies as it does only take one more "unexpected" attack by a staffie for another bad press report and another notch on the ladder towards the possibility of them becoming banned!
I said staffies do not LIKE to tolerate strange dogs, I still stand by this and am not saying they will not tolerate them. It is very different when they KNOW the dogs but still feel it best not to leave two or more together unsupervised, but again that is airing on the side of sensible caution.
You allow yours to play in a field with other strange dogs, I would not unless they had been introduced and were OK first. It does not need to be the staff that will start the trouble but you can guarentee it would be the staff that got the blame, surley that is something you agree with?
I would rather make future owners aware of these things than have them take a laid back approach only to have a rude awakening if things ever did go wrong.
Whilst I appreciate what you have said regarding your dogs obedience you and I both know that not all owners have their staffies or ISBT or infact any dog as well trained. So maybe you should not judge others by your very high training standards and maybe stress this to people :-)
Many top staffy breeders will always stress caution with other dogs - I agree not "never let them meet another dog", but always monitor the situation.
When was the last show you attended and watched staffies in the ring, no they do not all go mad at each other but there is usually a few grumbles. Do the staffie owners looked shocked at this? No but all take good care things never progress and do correct the dogs.