Hi.
Anyone know of a vet in the North East (UK) who will palpate rather than ultrasound?

Don't all vets palpate given the chance? Think it's fairly common practice, standard procedure I would have thought. My vets, or anyone else for that matter, are banned from palpating my girls :-O

My vets, or anyone else for that matter, are banned from palpating my girlsI assume because you feel there are risks? That's why I'm asking for an experienced vet. James Haddow used to do mine but he is quite a way from me now, just wondering if there is anyone closer.

>My vets, or anyone else for that matter, are banned from palpating my girls :-o

I'm with you on that one.  :-)

I wouldn't allow it either.

lol so rather than tell me your thoughts on the subject, would anyone like to answer the question? :)

Can I be nosey and ask why no scan?

Never had an issue with any litter where we have had the bitch palpated, must admit we didn't get Myka checked for pregnancy this time, it was so obvious, and she did have issues whelping.

Palpating reliably is quite a knack, some people have it, some don't.  It is a diagnostic tool used before the various imaging techniques became available.  I had my abdomen palpated when I had septicaemia to check that nothing was enlarged.

It does requirte a relaxed patient

Can I be nosey and ask why no scan? Because I've never had a correct scan yet.

Never had an issue with any litter where we have had the bitch palpated, Me neither.

Palpating reliably is quite a knack, some people have it, some don't. I agree, which is why I'm looking for an experienced vet. :)

When you say the scan hasn't been reliable in what way? Numbers wrong or pregnancy diagnosis wrong?

When I had a bitch scanned to confirm pregnancy[she had 4 phantoms before] I wasn't bothered about numbers because I know pups die and get absorbed, all I wanted to know was there were heart beats viable on the screen.

Palpating does not confirm those pups are alive at the time and someone being less than gentle could be doing more harm at that crucial time in the pregnancy.

As a midwife I was used to palpating for human babies[lots of practice in ante natal clinics] but have never managed to feel pups in the small window of time that this is possible before there is too much fluid to feel anything, in my breed I am told I am looking for lumps the size of a kidney bean around 3 weeks from mating, maybe with lots of bitches to practice on I would master it but with only 3 litters in 4 yrs then there isn't really that chance.

Hope all goes well

> When you say the scan hasn't been reliable in what way? Numbers wrong or pregnancy diagnosis wrong?

Both myself and a friend have been told by two different scanners recently, that it's best to leave the scan to 5 weeks post mating. We were both told that this would give a better chance of accurate numbers as there would be less chance of reabsorption by then.

When you say the scan hasn't been reliable in what way? Numbers wrong or pregnancy diagnosis wrong?Both, with different bitches.

Thanks for replying Jackie

I once had a bitch both scanned and palpated -she had lost a previous litter so I was desperate to know there were LIVE pups. Both was done on two different occasions. The vet who did the palpating said he was always accurate on numbers (bragged about it even, how it was so much better than scans), the scanner said she was always accurate about numbers. Both told me, both times, there were 2 pups. When two dead pups were born I was utterly distraught, until suddenly the third live one appeared. :)

So I'd take either method with a pinch of salt but prefer scanning as it is less intrusive and at least you can spot heartbeats, even if numbers will seldom be accurate.

I just wish I was more patient lol, and I'd just wait for her to get bigger. :)

I just wish I was more patient lol

Surely you do not mean you would risk the loosing of whelps for that reason - can you not wait two more weeks for a scan.

Surely you do not mean you would risk the loosing of whelps for that reason - can you not wait two more weeks for a scan.Of course not. I'm shocked you would assume such an awful thing. I don't believe palpation is any riskier than ultrasound. I've decided not to do either.

It depends on who is doing either procedure and how heavy handed they are.

I palpate and it is definitely a knack!  I discovered I could feel the fetuses accidentally about 30 years ago when my pregnant bitch was lying relaxed on the sofa.  The feel of a fetus is very distinct but will be missed unless you know what to look for.  So DO NOT TRY unless you know.  A vet palpated my first bitch and he prodded and poked and she yelped.  That is completely unnecessary, if done properly the bitch hardly realises what is happening.

I once found a singleton when a scan has said there were no puppies.  Understandably the breeder believed the scan and told me she definitely wasn't showing any signs of pregnancy.  She was shocked when the bitch dropped a dead puppy about a week after she should have whelped.