Hi

I would like to view a wide selection of contracts with specific emphasis on Endorsements. Also that if the dog/pup can no longer be kept with the owner it was sold to it MUST be returned to me. I really really want these puppies to go to pet homes, but im getting an awful lot of people wanting to breed, or have a one off litter. The 2 show potential pups out of the litter i would have considered lifting but one has gone to pet home, wont be showing. Other is a girl and ive said min 3rd season and spine xray, heart and clear eye and proven to me they are doing it for right reasons, good  stud lined up and they have an interest in the showring. Previously bred bulldogs several years ago and the breeding isnt a one off to let the kids experience the miracle of life.

One girl has a hernia v small think trauma of cutting cord but i want her pet home only, other girl isnt right for the ring or breeding, small side apple head. couple of nice boys but unless in the ring doing well no need to lift endorsements, enough quality stud dogs about and unless very good example of the breed and health wise im not prepared to lift. I know a different breed completely but in 2009 with my Dogues i only had one person interested in breeding which i turned down as they said they wanted to have the right to choose to breed. Shes in pet home now so im happy.

Why do they think if they are paying more than £500 they should be able to breed, they are paying a price for a healthy, quality pedigree pet not an investment.

Mine says and they initial straight under it as well as signing the whole contract:

The Kennel Club Registration document states that the progeny from this Leonberger may not be registered. This restriction may be lifted at my discretion should all health checks(HIP, ELBOW and EYE test, LPN1 test) been carried out with satisfactory results, he/she is of sound temperament and general health, he/she is shown at championship show level - has no major conformation faults according to the KC breed standard, and that any potential plans for breeding are discussed with me in advance. The endorsement will not be lifted until he/she is over two years old.

I have explained the area to new owners and why these limitations and all have been happy and understood why each area is important of they consider breeding from their puppy.

just make sure they sign something which clearly indicates what your terms are... once lifted though there's nothing you can do and they're on their own.  If you simply put health tests down and then aren't happy they could go directly to KC and if they've done what you've asked for, then they'll lift them rather than abide by your wishes.  You should also sign the agreement and for choice get a third party to sign as a witness....

it's a tough one - you have to be absolutely sure they're going to homes that you're happy with.

All we can do is place the endorsements saying all your pups are endorsed even the ones going to show/breeder homes and and staying with you,explain in detail why and get them to sign, if they do go ahead and breed then the litter can't be registered with the KC and the KC don't lift endorsements when the puppy owner has signed to say they have had it all explained and they understand.

Printing off some disasterous whelping outcomes from here or breed specific forums for them to read through before they take the pup home, I can't think of any other things we can do.

If there are show potential pups going to pet homes I would wait for them to approach you re lifting endorsements rather than telling them from the off that there may be a possibility, make it very clear then what criteria has to be met regarding,health tests which have to be passed, good showing/evaluation by breed specialist,you wanting to see the dog in person to assess temperament and you also want some input re right stud, hopefully when presented with all that they change their minds. As endorsements don't need lifting till the pups are registered you will have some control, don't lift too early or they will be off to do their own thing with the dog up the road.

This may sound controlling but we put alot of time and energy into our dogs/pups and it's our affix involved so we want to protect our reputation as much as possible.

I am sure others will come up with other ideas.

Also that if the dog/pup can no longer be kept with the owner it was sold to it MUST be returned to me.

You know it won't be legal whatever you make them sign, don't you? Once they have paid their money, they are under no obligations whatsoever to return the dog to you or indeed not breed from it, whatever they have signed -all you can do is endorse to stop pups from being KC registered and tell them you will take the pup back at any time. Look at the KC contract for an example of wording re. endorsements.  I think a lot of times it's more successful to state you will take any dog back at any time for whatever reason, than try to force them -people will see it as you being helpful and responsible rather than controlling, and are more likely to comply.

Yes I put on mine that I would be more than happy to take the dog back at any age if they cannot keep it for whatever reason. But  its true they are under no obligation to do so. In fact I found one of mine had been rehomed despite what was signed in the contract.  Luckily I checked the home out and it was a good one, I am sure I would have had no come back if it hadn't been though.

I always make it clear about the endorsements and write a piece that says the dog is sold as a pet and thus not breeding stock and the endorsements will not be lifted. It will stop any KC litters but again, true it will not stop breeding. You have to hope that the screening of the potential puppy owners will weed out any body that has breeding in mind. I find that people who want to buy a pet and breed from it usually say so at the first phone call.

I also sell pets on a neuter contract but again, wouldn't hold water in a court. Once they buy the dog, its theirs and unless you co own, you have legally nothing to do with it.

should i just in writing have a flat progeny not eligible for registration? verbal contract if everything a-ok then ill lift, min of eyes heart and spine age and  good standard and breeding thoughts. then they cant come back with a min of health tests and complain as they havent been in touch since and put her to the dog next door

For people who buy show/breeding prospects, I always include alist of the various health screenings the dog has to pass before I'll lift the endorsements. They sign this and I have to have copies of all the test certificates Because I am a control freak I always like to have imput on the dog/bitch they have chosen for their dog as well. I don't have the final say of course, but some lines just don't mix well so I like to 'suggest' :)

I don't do anything verbally, there can be too much he said, she said.

FAQ Forum: Puppy Sales Contracts

I wouldn't list the health tests specifically or if you do add a rider that will cover you if there are more that are appropriate at the time of breeding

e.g. if you just put hips must be done and elbows later become an issue in your breed, they have complied by doing the hips and are not required by you to do the elbows even if the breed now requires it - so you would have put yourself in the position of being obliged to lift the breeding restrictions as tehy have complied with your requirements

(did that make sense?)

Ive used the KC contract as a base and altered it slightly to say that I wont lift the endorsement. It was actually a write up on here about putting endorsments/lifting them that made me change it to not lifting them at all. I felt that as this is hopefully my girls first litter, I want to make sure for myself that the litter grows up how I want them to be, after all a first litter from a bitch is always a bit of 'I hope I get what I had planned in my head' type of thing. I also dont feel as if I have enough experience yet to advise someone else on the choice of stud dog and be a mentor to someone else after only just one litter of my own.

Taken from my/based on KC contract which I intend to go through with each puppy owner first and get them to sign at the relevant points.

Section 2 - ENDORSEMENTS - please read this section carefully

Under Kennel Club regulations, there are two endorsements that may be placed on a dog's record, by the registered breeder of a dog, whilst the dog in question is still in their possession. A breeder, therefore, is entitled to place two endorsements on a puppy's record with the Kennel Club: One restricts registration of any of its future offspring (progeny) and the other prevents the issue of an export pedigree. This is as a measure to help in protecting dogs which have been carefully and responsibly bred. It is generally assumed that breeders endorse their dogs to safeguard the dog's future, the breed as a whole and themselves. It is important that the Purchaser(s) should read this section very carefully before signing to confirm their understanding.

This Dog is subject to the following Kennel Club endorsements:
Endorsement R (Progeny not eligible for registration)
Endorsement X (Not eligible for the issue of an Export Pedigree)

Endorsements can only be lifted by the person who placed them, and that person would need to send a written & signed instruction to this effect to the Kennel Club.

Endorsement R (Progeny not eligible for registration) The dog named above was sold as a pet only and is NOT to be bred from. To safeguard the dog's future and the *********** Kennel, this endorsement will NOT be lifted under any circumstances.

Endorsement X (Not eligible for the issue of an Export Pedigree does not prevent a dog from being exported overseas (except to Malta) or going on holiday abroad, but does prevent the dog from being registered with an overseas Kennel Club.  This endorsement will not be lifted under any circumstances.

DECLARATION BY PURCHASER(S):

I/WE confirm that I/WE have read and had a full explanation of all the detail and meaning of Section: ENDORSEMENTS prior to purchase and I/WE fully understand its purpose and reason.

SIGNED (PURCHASER(S):   

   

SIGNED (BREEDER):   

> add a rider that will cover you if there are more that are appropriate at the time of breeding
>
>

good thinking. 

God it's getting more and more difficult to keep my contract to the one sheet of A4 that I want it to stay as.

I beleive there is a danger if contracts are too wordy and long that the potential new owners won't really take it in.  Bit like how many of us sign for T&C's without really reading them.

From recent (bad) experience, I would seriously make your contract as vague as you possibly can. Once you've decided what you want on it go to a solicitor to have it checked and drawn up. It would be well worth the money to do so.

Alfie, I would never say never to lifting endorsements, what happens if an owner decides to dabble in showing[other countries don't allow this on a restricted registration],the dog does really well and reaches Champ status are you going to say that you then wouldn't want a dog you bred to be used for bettering future generations?

What if one of your pups owners decides to emigrate but wishes to take part in activities offered by that countries kennel club and can only do so by joining officially which includes having an export pedigree from the UK, would you deprive them of the chance of taking part in those doggie pursuits.

Are all the pups you are going to produce be solely for the pet market? You may have problems finding the right homes who want one of your dogs for the right reason.

> I would seriously make your contract as vague as you possibly can. Once you've decided what you want on it go to a solicitor

I doubt a solicitor would pass a vague contract.  A contract is required to be fair and a vague one would probably be deemed to be unfair and could face being overturned.
I think it would be better to be specific in a way that allows for change for instance rather than requiring a certain test or result to simply state that tests and results should confirm to the current requirements of the breed club or Kennel Club Assured Breeder scheme.

Fair point Rhodach and I can totally understand what you say, will have to put my thinking cap on :)

I doubt a solicitor would pass a vague contract

Which is the whole point of paying a solicitor to draw up a contract, they are paid to advise!

As much as we like to ask other people what they say in their own contracts, or even use the KC contract on which to base our own, unless it is drawn up with a solicitor, if push comes to shove it may end up wasted effort.

I really don't care what anyone else does with their contracts, entirely up to them, but my little bit of advice has been given, and I would add to say put down what you want, then think about all the 'what if' scenarios and what you want if any of those things happen. Then, if it really does matter to you about the future generations from your lines fork out the money to discuss with a solicitor (2 or 3 people clubbing together is good). There are no guarantees that the fabulous puppy owner, vetted to the hilt, referenced up to the eyeballs might, some years down the line turn into the owner from hell :-(

All said, as said, as a result of experience. But hey, what do I know?!  :-D

As I understood it even if drawn up buy a solicitor no contract will be any use/stand up unless challenged, and how many of us have the money to do that, take a puppy owner to court for breaking terms?

All we can do is draw our own papers up and keep our fingers crossed -a lot of people will comply because they don't KNOW it's not legally standing. But a puppy is no different to a TV, once bought it is yours to do with as you wish. The one and only thing we can do is endorse. So even if we put that pup must be returned to us, or must not be bred from, even going to court won't help. The only way you could win in court would be if you could prove you had lost money by the contract being broken, which you won't have done. You sold the pup so it is no longer yours.

Actually there is one other thing everyone can do if worried: sell all pups in joint ownership with yourself.  Then you have a better chance of for instance getting it back, but even so, under the law, the person who feeds and cares for the dog is the legal owner, regardless of who it is registered to.

I have just gone through this situation with a puppy we sold in June. Despite being told verbally on the day, and them agreeing to it, plus a signed contract the puppy was put up for sale without our knowledge 2 months later. We'd heard nothing from them in the weeks after the sale and it was only my vigilance at scanning the internet and certain Puppy Sales web sites that I came across the advert for this puppy. I phoned immediately and informed them that they had signed a contract to return the puppy to me, that I'd happily reimburse them what I got for the puppy once I'd found a new home for her and I'd even come and pick the puppy up if they couldn't bring her back. I was met with an unfounded and frankly slanderous verbal attack on my character, my home and my ethics and basically told to Bog Off!!

I was so angry, hurt and upset that I immediately phoned my solicitor who sent them a letter demanding the return of the Puppy and informing them that a Court order/ injunction would be sought preventing them from selling the puppy on, as they had broken the terms of the contract.

My Solicitor did inform me that because the puppy was still in their ownership/on their property we could get the puppy back by placing an injunction on it, but if she had already been sold on, then it would have been impossible to get the puppy returned, and although we could have sued for Breach Of Contract, it would have cost about £3000 and we wouldn't of actually got anything from them.

Luckily for us the threat of legal action did the trick and we went and collected the puppy a few days later.

We were however allowed to take the cost of the Legal fees incurred and the cost of the petrol to go collect the puppy off of the final amount we paid them when the puppy was rehomed.

This is the first time that we've had to do this, and it really was a very upsetting thing to go through.

oh dear, well at least you got the pup back. think id have got a friend or family to buy the pup back on the sly