is it true that you shouldn't keep from first litters to breed from? I was told this once by a breeder

Id have sold a UK champion, followed by another and then 2 overseas champions then :-)

You aquire the best.... breed to the best... and Keep the best.

Very strange comment to come from a breeder.  If there's a fantastic example of the breed then you keep it!

I have kept from first litters more often than not, and subsequent litters too.  I have just kept a pup because bitch had a hard time this time and I won't put her through another litter from which I had wanted to keep one.  I am now hoping that I can use the dog I'd planed to use on her on the daughter I have kept, if he remains fertile until then.

If you have something really good in a first litter then better the bird in the hand, as you may not get better next time if at all.

It is best to breed every litter as if you will keep one, sometimes things happen and you have no choice.  You might not get as good next time if they turn out really well, even repeat matings can be very different.

The main reason for not keeping something would be to space dogs out when you can only keep a few, as waiting until you have from may mean the bitch is to old for a first litter. 

I have had to promise hubby no more puppies for 5 years, so I will have to sell a first litter and hopefully keep something from a second, when my girls are old enough and pass health tests etc. Hopefully if there's something stunning in the first litter one of my showing friends will be interested!

It's not that you shouldn't keep from a first litter, you keep from whichever litter you want and hopefully you keep the puppy that you want.  I wonder if the breeder who said this was intimating that maybe the first litter is a 'test' litter? That's fine too ... but I say that not giving a tiddly squat what they look like (although, if I do say so myself, I do have, & breed, exceedingly good looking doggies ;-D). I kept a pup from last year's litter, a first litter, the pup was EXACTLY what I wanted, besides which ... there wasn't anyone else I'd entrust her to :-O

This could be another one of 'those' excuses 'breeders' use when they have no real reason to have bred a litter. I really did want to keep from this litter I have now but since her being mated and giving birth we have found were expecting ourselves and 2 puppies will be too much for me all big and huge. Along with the sensible idea of keeping spending to a minimum as we need a larger vehicle for double pram 2 car seats etc.

Tooolz I love that saying and have really taken it on board, trying to avoid popular sire syndrome also. 

I thought that if you get a good puppy eg. matches breed standard and is good enough to show, it would be better to keep it than wait for he 2nd litter. However I was told quality is better after the 1st litter

> However I was told quality is better after the 1st litter

Nonsense!

I agree poppy cock, sods law i cant keep my fave girl but hopefully she will go in the ring herself, next year she will probably not have a litter all boys or bound for something to go boobs up. This is my first even plain sailing litter, no stillbirths, no deaths, no mastitis and no trouble. But it doesnt always go like this but it does bring some relief from sobbing in the wehlping box and the OH digging little holes for me :((((((

Seems strange to say, as if the right puppy comes up surely you keep it?

I think some people advise to breed a litter when the bitch is mature but still young, even if you don't want to keep anything, because if you want to keep something in future from her it's risky to breed when she's older, i.e. 6 or 7 if she hasn't already had a litter. I've read that on here but I'm a very novice breeder so a lot of it is new to me.

>However I was told quality is better after the 1st litter

And if that man hadn't died, they wouldn't have buried him.

Sorry, load of cobblers.

> However I was told quality is better after the 1st litter

It is amazing what "breeders" tell some people. Some people just have no idea of even the basics and there they are advising others how to do it! It is a shame breeders in UK don't have to do any basic courses to get their affix, like in some countries - must do basic courses in genetics/breeding/dog care etc before you can have a KC affix and breed and "share your wisdom"...

It would actually be quite fun to do a collection of things like this some people believe in -"words of wisdom for quality dog breeding" :) :)

If you pass on the first litter of every bitch that could be alot of pups as time goes on, personally I wouldn't plan on having a litter if there wasn't the possibility of keeping a pup back, my second litter was all male so I knew from the off that I couldn't keep any of them as I already had 2 males and I was so upset that all that planning etc was for nothing.

>> However I was told quality is better after the 1st litter
> It is amazing what "breeders" tell some people. Some people just have no idea of even the basics and there they are advising others how to do it!

Must go along with the old one that says a bitch having a cross bred litter is ruined for purebred puppies later.  A waste of her breeding potential, but nothing else.

I remember when I was a Nanny being told that as their Dalmation Plum had been "got at" by another breed and therefore couldn't be bred from in the future, deep down I knew there was no reason physically/genetically for this line of thinking but thought it must have been some KC ruling, I was totally clueless back then re dog breeding.

However I was told quality is better after the 1st litter

Utter rubbish. I had two from a first litter where they both got JW, both got RCC's and one has a CC.

My bitch had just the one litter but it produced 2 Obedience Champions, one of which became the Crufts Dog Obedience Champion 2007. He was the second most successful male of the time (behind the all time great, Herbie Watson's Jazz). Both also won the Pro Dogs of the Year Final in separate years.

Agree, a good show dog has an equal possibility of turning up in the 1st 2nd or 3rd. Quite possibly at least one in all litters.

I don't know where these ideas come from Do you happen to know what the reasoning behind it was??

I wonder if this came about as each litter one has really ought to be an improvement upon the last??
I know it isnt always but one would hope one improves & not the other way!! But I agree its is total rubbish to say it in those words. I am also a firm believer that you shouldnt breed without the intention of keeping a puppy, even if at a later stage you may rehome the pup for whatever reason or keep it & not show it(or work depending on the activity involved with)...I am rambling but hopefully have explained what I mean...lol

Yes, I was having my first litter from my bitch and decided I was going to keep a girl, however she gave me 5 boys and then I was told not to worry because quality is always better after the first litter. I thought this may have some logic as after the bitches 1st litter her ovaries have already been used once. Although I don't know why it would improve quality as this can be physical or genetic

Her ovaries get used every season when she releases eggs not just when she has a litter :).
The eggs and genetic make up for each puppy (her part of it) is already in there from when she is born so makes absolutely no difference in the quality of the resulting puppies if the egg happens to be fertilised in first or last pregnancy...
I suppose very old  bitch could maybe have a bigger chance of having issues with the puppies, just like I think an older human mother can has increased risk of abnormalities such as Downs with her baby?

You are aiming for improvement from generation to generation, so pups produced should be better than their parents, this doesn't always work as the hidden problems may appear from each parent or be doubled up on and none of the pups be the quality you hoped for, with other mates they may produce fantastic examples of the breed, it is all down to Mother Nature.

Still doesn't make sense to pass on all pups in a first litter, what if something happens and she never produces another litter, those genes will be lost to the breed. Some breeds only have 2 or 3 pups each time and would only produce in 4 litters what a larger breed could produce in one, giving you less to pick from during her breeding career.