Hello, we've recently had a lovely pup returned to us through no fault of the pup... she was fit for sale and in perfect health... they seemed to have changed their minds! We collected pup, who was unhappy and very fearful and bloated to the extreme... we arraigned with them to take her back and when pup was okay we would advertise her and sell her, we would then take out the costs incurred and refund them what was left...they signed and agreed to all this! The next morning they changed their minds and wanted her back, they were very insistent. we refused to do this as pup didn't look well or happy... They continued to be difficult and turned up at the house with friends! after 2/3 days we gave them most of the money in the hope that it would keep them at bay for a while, despite that fact that pup didn't sell for another 3 weeks and the costs exceeded the left over balance... The whole thing was very distressing and upsetting and at times we felt threatened...

Does anyone one know what the legal situation is in a case like this? and does anyone have some recommendation re-contract...

we have a sale contract that states a pup can be returned for any reason at anytime but no refund will be given...

Also it would be nice to hear from anyone who has experienced something similar...

Thanks to all! CFAM

No advice really just glad you didn't give them the pup back and hope you found a better home for her.

>and does anyone have some recommendation re-contract... <br /><br />we have a sale contract that states a pup can be returned for any reason at anytime but no refund will be given...

My recommendation to anyone in this situation.

Pay whatever it takes to get your pup back.  Twice I've refunded full price over the years.  Because I preferred to have the pup with me than with someone like this.

It was obvious that they wanted the pup back so they could get more money than you were offering.  At the end of the day, contract or no contract, I would pay whatever it takes.  Whatever the legal situation may be.  (While you are trying to get legal advice, time is being wasted.)

When we breed litters we are responsible for the wellbeing of our pups.  And if we say yes to the wrong person, we should have them back.

but in this case the breeder already had the dog back, had given partial refund and was feeling threatened/pressurised for more.

I don't think they would legally be entitled to more money if they had already signed to say they agreed with how it was being sorted

As for wanting the pup back, I would have put into the agreement,  once the puppy has been returned it reverts to the sole ownership of the breeders ( Mr & Mrs.........)

I do actually put this in my puppy contracts, I will always take a pup or dog back but under such circumstances the animal reverts to my sole ownership, then get them to sign.

Well, I think that realistically it depends on how much time has gone by and whether the breeder intends to sell the pup on for full price or a reduced price.

I mean, if the breeder is going to take the pup back and then sell it on for full price to another home, it doesn't seem fair that they get full price from the first home and then sell the pup again and get full price again...

If the pup is going to be sold for a reduced fee because older, then they should offer that reduced fee to the first home. 

And if the pup is too old to be sold easily and is out of puppyhood, then perhaps no fee should be paid to get pup back - since breeder may well not recoup the costs.

Quote OP:

"when pup was okay we would advertise her and sell her, we would then take out the costs incurred and refund them what was left...they signed and agreed to all this! The next morning they changed their minds and wanted her back, they were very insistent. we refused to do this as pup didn't look well or happy... They continued to be difficult and turned up at the house with friends! after 2/3 days we gave them most of the money in the hope that it would keep them at bay for a while, despite that fact that pup didn't sell for another 3 weeks and the costs exceeded the left over balance... "

It is fair that they deduct expenses from any resale which was agreed, even though they already had a partial refund.

If as OP says the pup was in poor condition it will need to be brought into fit for sale condition, socialised etc.  This will incur expenses as well as reducing likely sale price as the pup gets older in most cases.

Legally you didn't have to pay them a penny, they returned the pup to you in a poor condition which a vet needed to see but regardless whoever has possession of the dog/pup is regarded as the owner and within their rights to re sell said animal.

You can lose a dog leaving it with a friend whilst you go on holiday said friend is under no obligation to return the dog to you upon your return.  My daughter was in this very situation the police threatend to arrest her for harrassment when she went to collect her elderly dog she'd entrusted to a friend, we rang dog law and were advised this was correct the only way she could get her own dog back regardless of documents was by persuasion.

so basically if lets say i took my dog to the groomers(i wouldnt cos i AM a groomer but lets just say) upon my return,the groomer can refuse,e my girl/lad back??
or does it have tobe left over a certain period of time?i cant see how the law supports this???

No the law wouldn't support that as you've entered into a contract with the groomer for a service for which you pay monies.

Daughters situation was after an over night stay whilst daughter moved house and sorted the new flat out, as he was 12 1/2 at the time it was thought better he was somewhere else whilst the move happend.

My daughter was in this very situation the police threatend to arrest her for harrassment when she went to collect her elderly dog she'd entrusted to a friend, we rang dog law and were advised this was correct the only way she could get her own dog back regardless of documents was by persuasion.

There must have been more to it? He did bring this subject up at the seminar I went to end of May. It comes under either abandonment of dog (grey areas -have you abandoned a dog if you leave it for a few days with a friend? Have you abandoned it if you leave it outside a shop for 12 hours? In the first instance the answer could be no, in the second it probably is yes, as it depends on the circumstances.) Also if you say to somebody you give them your dog, you have given up ownership. Such as if you take it to a rescue and hand it over, if you change your mind the next day you can't get it back because you are no longer the owner. Just asking somebody to look after it isn't giving up ownership, unless it was for a longer period of time than agreed upon with no contact, hence abandoning it.

> My daughter was in this very situation the police threatend to arrest her for harrassment when she went to collect her elderly dog she'd entrusted to a friend

Some 'friend'!

...astonishing that someone, presumably well known (and liked?), could/would do this to your daughter

Golmali! It was as I described she moved flats asked elderly friend to look after him whilst she moved and unpacked ie over night so he wouldn't be stressed!

Took a wk of mutual friends and neighbours trying to talk sense into her, daughter went to a solicitor who would have taken it to court with warning to not expect dog back, rang doglaw after police warned her not to go to the house to try to get him back or approach her in local park.

What this woman had told police I dread to think but they did interview several of our mutual friends who knew the arrangement between them and the long term trust that had built up.  Once we got the dog back the police did advise this wasn't the first time she'd done this but as there was nothing in writing - again trust- they had to take it a face value.

This dog was pts on 1st June 12 at the age of 14, this event took place summer of 10 if that helps you accept Goldmali.

Schip I'm gobsmacked, gosh I could have had so many of my pups back! As I have often looked after them with no written contract for my puppy owners. :-D Of course I never would.....

I have to take it that the elderly woman must have said that the dog was given to her, it is the only way the police and the law could not have intervened, she could not have ever said, "I am looking after the dog and decided to keep it!" she must have lied and that is why the police made your daughter and co. try to persuade her to give the dog back, as it is one word against the other and would need court action and proof otherwise.

The law has so many holes in it............ (I still haven't got over the car from ebay story some time back.)

What a terrible, terrible experience for your daughter. So glad she got the dog back, gosh you never think you need to put things like that in writing, your story may well save a few nasty happenings like this, be careful who you trust!

CFAM The paperwork was signed everything you did was legal, so you could have called the police to have them removed, if they had got nasty (as they did) I probably would have as I don't like to feel intimidated and the law would have been on my side.

However, you got rid of them, got your pup back and if it cost it cost..... you are all safe, never had such terrible things happen, I can't believe the things that go on.........