Over the last few days I had noticed one pup (now 6 weeks old) had a slightly teary eye. A visit to the vet has confirmed she has very mild Entropian in one lower lid. Although this is common in our breed I have never had this issue before.. Both mother and father are eye screened and in mothers first litter all had no issues. I am devastated. The vet feels that it is possible as the puppies head shape changes that she will simply grow out of it. It does not seem to cause her any discomfort and the tearing is hardly noticeable. (It is only because I am a totally paranoid mummy that I noticed it).

The vet has stated that as there is no sign of infection and the puppy is showing no signs of discomfort all he would recommend is close observation with daily eye cleansing using saline solution and to monitor the problem over the course of the next few weeks and months.

I need to inform the prospective parents of this news but would like as much information as possible beforehand so that I can be as honest to them as I can. Any experience you have of this condition (including costs of surgery and daily life with a dog that has entropian) would be most gratefully received. If they decide to still have her I want to be completely fair to them so I would obviously put in my puppy contract that I would cover all surgery costs should this be required, explain that they will not get insurance for this as it will be pre-existing and wonder if I should also offer a reduction in price? Is there anything else i should cover?

Other questions:
Will it possibly get worse over the next few weeks rather than better?
Are there any routines that we could follow to minmise any eye damage?
Would you even still allow the rehoming of a puppy with it, or would you wait and see how the condition develops?

Some pups have a few extra soft lashes when young that make one or both eyes weep, my experience was that by 8 months old when her head/muzzle had stopped growing the problem sorted itself, the vet put drops in her eye to show up any damage to the surface of the eye, there was none, she let me have a look too.

True Entropian causes ulceration which will result in scarring,possible infection and loss of some vision, this early on I wouldn't be worried, does your breeds head shape change alot in the first few months?

I would be up front with the new owners, if you are offering to pay for surgery then there is no need to reduce the price as they won't be out of pocket if surgery is needed.

Hopefully things will sort themselves out naturally.

I would also wait for few days to see as the puppy might have been caught near the eye which could cause swelling and the lid to turn slightly... Head shape will change a lot so it could get better or it could get lot worse. I don't think many entropians show at this young age? so not sure what usually happens if one is seen in a such a young puppy, do they tend to get better or worse with age.
Maybe ask around in your breed to see if anybody has had similar? As different breeds have different head "stages"...

I don't think UK eye screening marks Entropian down the forms anyways so on that area, screening is no good.
Could be different in different breeds but I know in my breed it is not noted or recorded officially in UK screening which is a shame as there is no way to officially see which dogs/siblings/lines it is popping up...

> I don't think UK eye screening marks Entropian down the forms anyways so on that area, screening is no good.

It does now, it's in the box in the middle.

I don't know what breed you have OP, but Sheila Crispin is now saying that most Toy breeds are showing with mild Entropian. The worst example that she shows pictures of on KC judges courses, is of a Papillon.

If pup is going to a pet home, I feel that you are being fair in advising them.  I know it's not the same thing, but I once had a pup that had a hernia that didn't show until the pup was past 6 weeks old, when he had already been chosen by a family. 

I let them know straight away, and gave them chance to say they didn't want him.  All the family still wanted him, so I kept him a little longer, and had the hernia fixed by my own vet.  I wasn't happy to let him go, and assume that they would get it done later.  I'm aware that most people wait and see, but it's something I needed to do for my own peace of mind.  I have had 2 breeds that are prone to hernias, yet this was the first time in over 35 years that I had ever seen one!

So the fact that you are willing to cover the vet costs is fair, and I don't really see any reason to actually reduce the asking price of the pup as well, if these people still want him.

Hope it clears up, and you don't need to do a thing.  :-)

Regarding eye tests, the BVA ones put on the notes if there is any eyelid issue, whether corrected or not. There is a new eye test form which does have a pass or fail as I'm lead to believe for the eyelid conformation. So it's requesting to see the eye certificate if breeding or seeking a puppy!

As for most toy dogs suffering from it, that is disgraceful and I hope to god these dogs are stopped from being placed and kicked out the ring, if the eye is watering then there will be a level of discomfort somewhere along the line... No excuse not to get an adult dog operated on!!

As for surgery costs to the other person I'd be contacting a local canine ophthalmologist or your bet for rough prices, if it's bad enough sometimes 2 operations are required to fix it.. Depending on size of dog will also determine cost too..
At this age I wouldn't be looking at operating on, keep an eye, keep it checked by the vet and hope its a case of the pup growing out of it.. Sometimes it's a cause of hereditary, conformation or ita a secondary to something else going on like allergies..

Oh that is good progress then.
I know dogs with mild Entropions and totally "clear" certificates with no mentioning about it but from now on, it should be noted which is good. However I suppose it does not get recorded anywhere officially for all to see or look back to in years to come?

My dog had entropian which I did not find out about until I took her for her first vaccinations.  I mentioned to the vet that she had a weepy eye.  My vet decided that this needed to be operated on as soon as she was fully vaccinated and settled into our home.  I think from memory she had this done when she was about 4/5 month old.  My vet was adamant that it needed to be done sooner rather than later to avoid any scarring. 

I did claim on the puppy pet insurance that she came with (Pet Plan) and was paid out in full (minus the excess of course).  I believe it cost about £130.

Unfortunately the breeder I bought from did not want to know and refused point blank to acknowledge that there was anything wrong with the puppy when she was sold to me because her vet had not picked up the condition.

It would not have put me off buying her so I would be honest with buyers if it puts them off then perhaps they shouldn't have the puppy.  It's nice to see you are that caring.  My vet did give me some eye drops which did help control the tearing but in my experience it did not get any better in the few months before she was operated on but her eye was quite bad.  The operation went really well and you now cannot even tell that she had anything done.

Hope this helps.

I'm hoping the ophthalmologists doing the tests would mark it as there is a field for further notes and they should be doing this. Prof Bedford does another eye test, same as BVA which covers the eyelid and I'm lead to believe makes a pass or fail on it, whether accepted by KC I don't know and where this is logged again is a big ??
It's a problem in many breeds but hardly spoken about and covered up to.. I'm still shocked to hear its a major issue in toy breeds in the show ring..what are these judges and breeders thinking its ok???

Thank you for your insight.

I do believe that it must be a tiny problem as even with a magnifier I cannot see any inturning or hairs rubbing, but i am not qualified so trust my vet and the comments that he has made.I think that it could be just a few extra lashes that are causing a problem, and yes my breeds head shape does change alot in the the first few months, that would explain why my vet feels time and patience will make a big different to any diagnosis.

> I'm still shocked to hear its a major issue in toy breeds in the show ring..what are these judges and breeders thinking its ok???

I'm not sure how visible this 'mild entropion' is to the naked eye. It's not a question of ingrowing hairs. It's apparently a slight rolling in of the lower eyelid at the inner corner. It wouldn't necessarily cause any runny eyes.

I only heard about this via the recent KC seminars for judges & health co-ordinators of high profile breeds. I'm thinking a bit of guidance wouldn't go amiss.

And do you have any info on the test you mention that Peter Bedford might be doing?

Thank you for your thoughts..

I have tried to broach the subject with others in my breed but I feel that many of them would not admit that they have had this problem due to the underlying genetic link and the fact it may compromise lines that they have continued to breed from.

However they have been useful in providing info regarding head stages, so thank you for that suggestion.It has given me a clear time line to share with the prospective parents that have decided to still have the puppy.

> I'm still shocked to hear its a major issue in toy breeds

I am too!  Sue, I have kept an awful lot of toy dogs over 35 odd years.  I have never, ever seen entropian in a toy breed.  So I'm not sure how most toys have the problem.  Obviously, I will stand corrected if shown any proof.  :-)

my wcp had very slight entropian when i got her. my vet put a stich in and as her head changed shape the eyes were fine. in fact the stitch stayed in doing nothing for about three years. her eyes are good now.

Slight rolling in of the eyelid is still visible to the naked eye, so judges can easily look for it when assessing a dog. Often their eyes do run even with mild entropian, especially in sunny weather.
As for the eye test I wish I could like this to Polly as she knows about it and read and about the new eye test on her health fb page which promotes all the health testing says up and down the country..
If you know the group page I mean then it's all on there.

Eyelid tacking and other methods can be used and tried on puppies to assist in trying to prevent surgery at a later date as the puppy grows.

> I have never, ever seen entropian in a toy breed.  So I'm not sure how most toys have the problem.  Obviously, I will stand corrected if shown any proof.  :-)

We were a bit surprised to hear this too. But there is an awful lot of pedigree dog-bashing going on these days, it's hard to know what to think. As for the picture of the afflicted Papillon, SC freely admitted she got it from Jemima :-(

Never heard of it in my toy breed either, though I'm hardly an expert in it - plenty of other problems, but not entropian!

My vet said eye tacking was not required, but a few people have mentioned it.

Could you tell me a little more about this procedure so that I can speak to my vet about it?

I had a friend in a spaniel breed where it sometimes occurred during the fleshy faced puppy stage.

A stitch is put in to hold the eye lid away from the eye a little until the puppy grows.